I need seeds

lokie said:

Your commitment is noble as is your goal.
Improvement is a profit in itself.

I am an end user, that is/was the statement I'm making.
It was not my intent to call you out or to question your intentions.

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Nah Lokie I didn't think you were calling me out at all. I know you are friend and not foe LOL. I was just explaining how one expensive bean could be worthwhile even if you aren't selling or using it for other than yourself. Your post gave me the platform for that reply, thank you.

Chunky Stool said:

I don't know anything about plant breeding. Does "self it" mean forcing it to herm and pollinate herself?
I'm popping 10 regulars from greenpoint and figured I'd lose half because they're males and I'd be lucky to get a couple of keepers out of the remaining five. Does that sound right?
I've grown clones until now so I don't really know what to expect from seeds.
Well actually that's not true. I do have some seeds from a crop failure that a buddy gave me. Total box of chocolates, but I've had a few that were fabulous. Of course I didn't get cuttings so I lost the genetics.
Last year I started with 10 seeds and culled six before they were 12" tall. One of the remaining four was male.
Out of the three females, two were pretty good and one was FIRE.

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Yes it means forcing the plant to exhibit hermaphrodism, an important genetic expression cannabis uses to survive. The nice thing about a seed produced by herming is they are all female, although they are at higher risk of herming. So it's a mixed bag but well worth it because you know all the seeds are female.

With regulars you know you will probably see 50% males. If you are a little patient you can use an open table pollination and cross several males with several females this will produce all the seeds from that line you will ever need to find a jackpot pheno.

Although you get less smokeable return on a seed crop what you have is just as potent.

took advantage of the cyber Monday sale and got some GDP auto feminized at 40% off so i can have an early crop in spring.
Got some Sour Diesel freebies to try out as well
That will go along with the ICE x Critical cross i made last year

curious2garden said:

Nah Lokie I didn't think you were calling me out at all. I know you are friend and not foe LOL. I was just explaining how one expensive bean could be worthwhile even if you aren't selling or using it for other than yourself. Your post gave me the platform for that reply, thank you.



Yes it means forcing the plant to exhibit hermaphrodism, an important genetic expression cannabis uses to survive. The nice thing about a seed produced by herming is they are all female, although they are at higher risk of herming. So it's a mixed bag but well worth it because you know all the seeds are female.

With regulars you know you will probably see 50% males. If you are a little patient you can use an open table pollination and cross several males with several females this will produce all the seeds from that line you were ever need to find a jackpot pheno.

Although you get less smokeable return on a seed crop what you have is just as potent.

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Does anyone breed with male plants anymore?
I need to read up on this before I start chucking pollen.
Growing with clones is much easier but my best source disappeared a couple of years ago. He would never sell clones from a plant he hadn't personally grown. Everything I got from him was fire.

Chunky Stool said:

Does anyone breed with male plants anymore?
I need to read up on this before I start chucking pollen.
Growing with clones is much easier but my best source disappeared a couple of years ago. He would never sell clones from a plant he hadn't personally grown. Everything I got from him was fire.

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This years seed tables were all regular breeding with males. I mined Sour Diesel, Bubba Kush and crossed with SR-71 x Sour Diesel, Kosher Kush F2 x Sour Diesel and Lucky Charms x Sour Diesel. Last years was selfed and I'm going to be selfing a table of Lucky Charms (Bodhi) early next year.

whitebb2727 said:

Yes. Get you some silver wire from a jeweler or Amazon. Cut the end off a cell charger. Strip a bit of the positive and negative wires. Hook a piece of silver to each wire and drop them into distilled water. Just the silver and not the wire from the charger. Do not let them touch. Plug in and run for a day. You will end up with a amber colored water. Spray at the first sign of flower everyday until you see pollen. Discard the sprayed plant.

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LOL or call cannabineer and whine a lot.

curious2garden said:

Nah Lokie I didn't think you were calling me out at all. I know you are friend and not foe LOL. I was just explaining how one expensive bean could be worthwhile even if you aren't selling or using it for other than yourself. Your post gave me the platform for that reply, thank you.



Yes it means forcing the plant to exhibit hermaphrodism, an important genetic expression cannabis uses to survive. The nice thing about a seed produced by herming is they are all female, although they are at higher risk of herming. So it's a mixed bag but well worth it because you know all the seeds are female.

With regulars you know you will probably see 50% males. If you are a little patient you can use an open table pollination and cross several males with several females this will produce all the seeds from that line you will ever need to find a jackpot pheno.

Although you get less smokeable return on a seed crop what you have is just as potent.

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I have to disagree about the offspring being more prone to herming if using cs or sts and stable genetics there is little chance of herm offspring.

I forget who posted it but it was something along the lines that it is an enzyme or something along those lines that cause herms in cannabis. All strains are capable. Its a survival mechanism.

There is also a difference in a true herm and one that just has male expression.

I wouldn't trust a true intersex plant or fems made by stress. Using a product like cs may increase chances of herms but it is negligible in my experience.

Rodelazation is another process for fem seeds. You leave the female bud to over ripen. It throws nanners in a last ditch effort to make offspring. Most strains I've found if left long enough will eventually throw pollen.

I guess as you said its a mixed bag.

whitebb2727 said:

I have to disagree about the offspring being more prone to herming if using cs or sts and stable genetics there is little chance of herm offspring.

I forget who posted it but it was something along the lines that it is an enzyme or something along those lines that cause herms in cannabis. All strains are capable. Its a survival mechanism.

There is also a difference in a true herm and one that just has male expression.

I wouldn't trust a true intersex plant or fems made by stress. Using a product like cs may increase chances of herms but it is negligible in my experience.

Rodelazation is another process for fem seeds. You leave the female bud to over ripen. It throws nanners in a last ditch effort to make offspring. Most strains I've found if left long enough will eventually throw pollen.

I guess as you said its a mixed bag.

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Treating a plant with colloidal silver, silver sodium thiosulfate or gibberellins is stressful and creates hormone (not enzyme) production.

For example the CS binds ethylene which is a primary ripening hormone, STS works along the same lines, delivering the silver to bind the ethylene. Gibberellins are hormones themselves. Rodelization works by creating a disaster hormone response in the plant so it self-procreates, again all by stressful hormone production.

The reason you have a greater chance at subsequent hermaphrodism is because of bringing that genetic hormone response into the plants recent first generation, versus a genetic predisposition that may not have been triggered in generations. If you do subsequent generation selfing I would postulate you would see an even greater probability of hermaphrodism but that is not necessarily so.

curious2garden said:

Treating a plant with colloidal silver, silver sodium thiosulfate or gibberellins is stressful and creates hormone (not enzyme) production.

For example the CS binds ethylene which is a primary ripening hormone, STS works along the same lines, delivering the silver to bind the ethylene. Gibberellins are hormones themselves. Rodelization works by creating a disaster hormone response in the plant so it self-procreates, again all by stressful hormone production.

The reason you have a greater chance at subsequent hermaphrodism is because of bringing that genetic hormone response into the plants recent first generation, versus a genetic predisposition that may not have been triggered in generations. If you do subsequent generation selfing I would postulate you would see an even greater probability of hermaphrodism but that is not necessarily so.

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I didn't mean to correlate the two. The supposed study was just about herms. I forget if it said enzyme or protein. I can't for the life of me remember the term used. It just said that intersex wasn't necessarily genetic. That any cannabis plant has the ability to herm.

I know that cs and sts bind to ethylene but I don't believe it increases the chances of herms. Not in my experience. That comes down to genetics used.

If you have a study showing proper use of cs or other so.ilar treatments increasing herm chances I would gladly take a look at it.

I know that sounds contradictory.

You may be correct about increased chance. I've just not noticed much increase myself. I haven't read any studies on using things like cs either and the effects it has on chances of herming.

whitebb2727 said:

I didn't mean to correlate the two. The supposed study was just about herms. I forget if it said enzyme or protein. I can't for the life of me remember the term used. It just said that intersex wasn't necessarily genetic. That any cannabis plant has the ability to herm.

I know that cs and sts bind to ethylene but I don't believe it increases the chances of herms. Not in my experience. That comes down to genetics used.

If you have a study showing proper use of cs or other so.ilar treatments increasing herm chances I would gladly take a look at it.

I know that sounds contradictory.

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You seem to be saying there is a difference between intersex and hermaphrodism. Can you tell me the difference as you understand it? Because from what I'm reading here you seem to be confusing the chemistry and the biology. For example you know that CS and STS bind to ethylene but you don't believe it increases the chances of herms. When that is exactly how you create a selfing by triggering the genetic predisposition within all cannabis to herm and self-reproduce.

So, yes what you are stating sounds very contradictory.

curious2garden said:

You seem to be saying there is a difference between intersex and hermaphrodism. Can you tell me the difference as you understand it? Because from what I'm reading here you seem to be confusing the chemistry and the biology. For example you know that CS and STS bind to ethylene but you don't believe it increases the chances of herms. When that is exactly how you create a selfing by triggering the genetic predisposition within all cannabis to herm and self-reproduce.

So, yes what you are stating sounds very contradictory.

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What's the best way to learn about cannabis breeding?
I'm going to place an Amazon order soon, so I can add a book if there are any good ones.

curious2garden said:

You seem to be saying there is a difference between intersex and hermaphrodism. Can you tell me the difference as you understand it? Because from what I'm reading here you seem to be confusing the chemistry and the biology. For example you know that CS and STS bind to ethylene but you don't believe it increases the chances of herms. When that is exactly how you create a selfing by triggering the genetic predisposition within all cannabis to herm and self-reproduce.

So, yes what you are stating sounds very contradictory.

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The way I understand it that cs blocks ethylene production and allows male expression. There is no actual change to the DNA or genetics. XX and XX equals XX. This can be further complicated if polyploids. Like an XXY.

I correct myself. A true hermaphrodite will usually show equal male and female parts.
An intersex or reversed plant is confused and may have varying ratios of male and female parts.

A full on herm will have many male flowers and be full of seeds. Its common in hemp production but not desirable when growing personal cannabis.

Outside of genetic hermaphrodites things like temps, light cycle and even nutes can cause abnormal flower growth. Intersex or reversed plant. I don't consider these plants to be the same as full on herms. That doesn't mean I think they are good for breeding. They can be but not always.

I respect what you are saying about it. I haven't found anything concrete about the percentage increase in herms from using a treatment like cs. I would like to.

I'm going by the fem seeds I've bought and made over the years. I'm not popping hundreds or thousands of beans at a time though. I just haven't found a herm in fem beans from reputable breeders or ones I've made. I've actually had more herms from reg beans.

Its also more common trait among sativas and I have some landrace strains that throw nanners.

I'm also really high right now. Lol.

That being said I also think its more complicated than that. Lol.

whitebb2727 said:

The way I understand it that cs blocks ethylene production and allows male expression. There is no actual change to the DNA or genetics. XX and XX equals XX. This can be further complicated if polyploids. Like an XXY.

I correct myself. A true hermaphrodite will usually show equal male and female parts.
An intersex or reversed plant is confused and may have varying ratios of male and female parts.

A full on herm will have many male flowers and be full of seeds. Its common in hemp production but not desirable when growing personal cannabis.

Outside of genetic hermaphrodites things like temps, light cycle and even nutes can cause abnormal flower growth. Intersex or reversed plant. I don't consider these plants to be the same as full on herms. That doesn't mean I think they are good for breeding. They can be but not always.

I respect what you are saying about it. I haven't found anything concrete about the percentage increase in herms from using a treatment like cs. I would like to.

I'm going by the fem seeds I've bought and made over the years. I'm not popping hundreds or thousands of beans at a time though. I just haven't found a herm in fem beans from reputable breeders or ones I've made. I've actually had more herms from reg beans.

Its also more common trait among sativas and I have some landrace strains that throw nanners.

I'm also really high right now. Lol.

That being said I also think its more complicated than that. Lol.

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So much information. I'm in overload.














dig a little hole. plant a little seed. walla.

lokie said:

So much information. I'm in overload.

dig a little hole. plant a little seed. walla.

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Lol. Yea. Pretty much. Dig a hole and put a seed in. Seems people complicate the hell out of it. That's when mistakes get made.

Curious called me on a lazy thought and presentation. Least I could do was form a half way coherent paragraph.

whitebb2727 said:

The way I understand it that cs blocks ethylene production and allows male expression. There is no actual change to the DNA or genetics. XX and XX equals XX. This can be further complicated if polyploids. Like an XXY.

I correct myself. A true hermaphrodite will usually show equal male and female parts.
An intersex or reversed plant is confused and may have varying ratios of male and female parts.

A full on herm will have many male flowers and be full of seeds. Its common in hemp production but not desirable when growing personal cannabis.

Outside of genetic hermaphrodites things like temps, light cycle and even nutes can cause abnormal flower growth. Intersex or reversed plant. I don't consider these plants to be the same as full on herms. That doesn't mean I think they are good for breeding. They can be but not always.

I respect what you are saying about it. I haven't found anything concrete about the percentage increase in herms from using a treatment like cs. I would like to.

I'm going by the fem seeds I've bought and made over the years. I'm not popping hundreds or thousands of beans at a time though. I just haven't found a herm in fem beans from reputable breeders or ones I've made. I've actually had more herms from reg beans.

Its also more common trait among sativas and I have some landrace strains that throw nanners.

I'm also really high right now. Lol.

That being said I also think its more complicated than that. Lol.

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If I may be so bold:

1) The silver does not inhibit ethylene biosynthesis. It competitively obviates ethylene recognition (by the plant's hormone receptors) by intercepting enzymatically formed ethylene.

2) Polyploidy is not requisite or even of advantage to achieve hermaphroditic feature expression in Cannabis. The phenotype is already furnished with the genotypic information for incidental sexual morphogenesis, perchance by Rodelization.

3) The hypothesis that the male/female inflorescence ratio varies between genetically ("true") and environmentally occasioned (I presume these will be labeled "false" in your hypothetical construct) mono-organismic dioecity does not stand inspection, either casual or more sustained.

.

curious2garden said:

If I may be so bold:

1) The silver does not inhibit ethylene biosynthesis. It competitively obviates ethylene recognition (by the plant's hormone receptors) by intercepting enzymatically formed ethylene.

2) Polyploidy is not requisite or even of advantage to achieve hermaphroditic feature expression in Cannabis. The phenotype is already furnished with the genotypic information for incidental sexual morphogenesis, perchance by Rodelization.

3) The hypothesis that the male/female inflorescence ratio varies between genetically ("true") and environmentally occasioned (I presume these will be labeled "false" in your hypothetical construct) mono-organismic dioecity does not stand inspection, either casual or more sustained.

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I thought you told me you struggled through biochem!

cannabineer said:

.

I thought you told me you struggled through biochem!

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Yeah, but not the easy shit.

curious2garden said:

Yeah, but not the easy shit.

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Once I got past the citric acid cycle and steroid biosynthesis, I will admit I retreated to the warmer waters of plain old organic synthesis.

curious2garden said:

If I may be so bold:

1) The silver does not inhibit ethylene biosynthesis. It competitively obviates ethylene recognition (by the plant's hormone receptors) by intercepting enzymatically formed ethylene.

2) Polyploidy is not requisite or even of advantage to achieve hermaphroditic feature expression in Cannabis. The phenotype is already furnished with the genotypic information for incidental sexual morphogenesis, perchance by Rodelization.

3) The hypothesis that the male/female inflorescence ratio varies between genetically ("true") and environmentally occasioned (I presume these will be labeled "false" in your hypothetical construct) mono-organismic dioecity does not stand inspection, either casual or more sustained.

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I like pickles.