IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

Stoner, From what ive learned researching led's, Almost every company out there advertises the Maximum or "Rated wattage" of the led grow light. If the company advertises or lists multiple wattage ratings its safe to assume the maximum wattage is going to be the highest number (360 watts) and the lowest number the actual led draw (130 watts). So I would guess the mentioned 190 watts is the total power including the power consumed by the fans and power supplies So in short you are getting 130 watts of actual growing power with the A51 light. If you look there are a few companies out there that advertise the actual growing power of the lights, But most of the companies use the higher "Rated Watts" to entice buyers. A lot of people (I know a few myself) have bought lights only to realize they only put out half of the advertised wattage. When I first became interested in growing with leds I quickly found almost every company uses this tactic, I ended up buying my new lights here and have been very happy with them http://www.evolutiongrowled.com/shop-evolution.html There are a few other companies like http://www.lumigrow.com/products/pro-series-greenhouse-lights/ but the election is literally limited to 1 model of real growlight. Just my two cents, Hope it helps.

If leds are pushed to their max i dont think they would last the 50000 hours listed id say a couple years anyways at max volts watts and ma just sayin since ive been testing diodes

Sent from my SGH-S730M using Rollitup mobile app

No ive experimented with this myself when building a 50w led grow light kit, There was a spare led included o i decided to tinker a little. When driven at 50% it ran quite cool, At about 70% it started getting very hot, At about 95% of the rated input it burned out after a brief period. I contacted the store http://www.Evolutiongrowled.com and inquired about this and the possibility of using a slightly larger driver to increase the output of the led grow light kit even further. In short it was explained to me that driving the led's over 60% of the rating creates heat control issues and extremely shorten the lifespan of the diodes.
So I definitely wouldnt risk increasing the power an any led light unless given the ok by the manufacturer, Pretty much guaranteed they wont cover DIY damage in the warranty!

Redoctober said:

I've been following the Area 51's for a while now and was debating between one of them and a BlackDog but I'm swayed towards the A51. I am a tad bit confused by the wattage description though. On the website it says:

"Electrical Consumption: 130w or 190w. These are the actual power that they will draw, not the maximum power the LEDs can be driven at. Maxed out this lamp would be pulling over 360w."

Soooo, is it a 130w light, a 190w, or a 360w light? Or all three, with a switch to select between wattages?

How would one "Max out the lamp" to get the most wattage?

Click to expand...

The Area 51 XGS-190 that you're refering to is, 130W in veg, and 190W in bloom.
You can switch back and forth between the two modes with the push of a button.
The 130W and 190W reading are both the actual draws of electricity at the plug for their respective modes.
You do not want to "max out" LED's, that would lead to a very hot, and short lifespan, for an LED light.

Now if yu are able to diffuse the heat quickly and keep the temp low yu can drive the diodes a lil harder

Sent from my SGH-S730M using Rollitup mobile app

I have a 6x2 foot print for my veg. space. I'm thinking I need three panels - each covering a 2x2 square. Does anyone have recommendations for a good veg only panel for this sized space?

Wyckoff said:

I have a 6x2 foot print for my veg. space. I'm thinking I need three panels - each covering a 2x2 square. Does anyone have recommendations for a good veg only panel for this sized space?

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You can get away with less for veg, Two xgs' set at 24-30" will probably cover you, Im a litte fuzzy what the charts were reading..

The reason I am pointing towards the xgs 1) They have the 95* lens that will cover that better than <60*'s, 2) Cost effective for a Veg Space, 3) Nice strong peak in the 450 range (chloro B peak).... and still balanced enough to flower if you change your mind.

For all you that think it is a corrupted forum, time to start backing up WHY we choose...

I would also push you towards looking at an IndaGro 420 going long ways in that space, or maybe x2 200's.

Biggest question... is budget.

Scotch089 said:

You can get away with less for veg, Two xgs' set at 24-30" will probably cover you, Im a litte fuzzy what the charts were reading..

The reason I am pointing towards the xgs 1) They have the 95* lens that will cover that better than <60*'s, 2) Cost effective for a Veg Space, 3) Nice strong peak in the 450 range (chloro B peak).... and still balanced enough to flower if you change your mind.

For all you that think it is a corrupted forum, time to start backing up WHY we choose...

I would also push you towards looking at an IndaGro 420 going long ways in that space, or maybe x2 200's.

Biggest question... is budget.

Click to expand...

Thanks Scotch,

I have a 9x3 flower footprint where I'm planning on hanging the new xgs'. I don't need any convincing that they are great lights. I am planning on scrogging which I think is ideal for LEDs. I am actually worried that these lights won't generate enough heat. (volume of grow room plus flower room is 1200 cu. ft.) The space is a detached garage and it gets down around freezing occasionally where I live. I want to run a closed room so I can add co2 but its been my experience that its kind of a waste if you can't keep your room at 80-90 degrees (at canopy). I'm considering add a 600w HPS (with 2 xgs') for flower and this might allow me to buy two more for veg. Figuring out how much heat, dehu. and a/c I might need is not easy so any thoughts on that would be awesome. I'm considering running a Co2 burner but I've never liked the idea of an open flame in a grow room.

Kick ass. I actually run in that kind of climate too. The hottest of hots and coldest of cold. My HIGH 18" above the SGS is 68*, but their is a cold draft from under the door that makes the room's heater constantly bust balls.

Being completely sealed and with a burner, I don't think itd be horrible. Space heaters usually consume 600-1000w themselves though, so be ready. I just tested my panel heater I had on the wall- and every time it kicked on, it was ~1080w. Now im testing a stand up oil heater, and I think thats why my temps are so low. But it also draws ~600w. Worth the trade? Idk,

I do know you want things toasty (77-79 w/out Co2), as long as your have room from plant-to-light (not too many photons), the heat will help Transpiration and will open the Stomata. That is an Aaaa+.

Thinking the xgs will be a bit warmer drawing ~40w more, but I would rule out the IndaGro for heating, apache is supposed to be a little warmer than 51's.

EDIT: pm me if you want, don't want to jack.

Scotch089 said:

Kick ass. I actually run in that kind of climate too. The hottest of hots and coldest of cold. My HIGH 18" above the SGS is 68*, but their is a cold draft from under the door that makes the room's heater constantly bust balls.

Being completely sealed and with a burner, I don't think itd be horrible. Space heaters usually consume 600-1000w themselves though, so be ready. I just tested my panel heater I had on the wall- and every time it kicked on, it was ~1080w. Now im testing a stand up oil heater, and I think thats why my temps are so low. But it also draws ~600w. Worth the trade? Idk,

I do know you want things toasty (77-79 w/out Co2), as long as your have room from plant-to-light (not too many photons), the heat will help Transpiration and will open the Stomata. That is an Aaaa+.

Thinking the xgs will be a bit warmer drawing ~40w more, but I would rule out the IndaGro for heating, apache is supposed to be a little warmer than 51's.

EDIT: pm me if you want, don't want to jack.

Click to expand...

If you can run a gas line look into getting a natural gas heater for that room, then you'd be heating it and adding co2 at the same time. win/win

Bad Karma said:

The Area 51 XGS-190 that you're refering to is, 130W in veg, and 190W in bloom.
You can switch back and forth between the two modes with the push of a button.
The 130W and 190W reading are both the actual draws of electricity at the plug for their respective modes.
You do not want to "max out" LED's, that would lead to a very hot, and short lifespan, for an LED light.

Click to expand...

Thanks Karma! Are the spectra different at all from veg to bloom mode in the new XGS-190. or are both modes pure white?

....I just realized that I asked you a question about a light that isn't out yet haha! But if you happened to know the answer....

The Xgs190 is all white (new model), the Sgs160 (2013 model, still in stock) is white and red

Redoctober said:

Thanks Karma! Are the spectra different at all from veg to bloom mode in the new XGS-190. or are both modes pure white?

....I just realized that I asked you a question about a light that isn't out yet haha! But if you happened to know the answer....

Click to expand...

Same spectrum just less of it. The XGS-190 only uses one kind of diode and the switch just turns some of them off.

UHH I have tons of questions!

Im building a small LED light.

my plan is to use 10 or 13 LEDs. (the larger version would have 25)

ive looked at the leds available to me for purchase and ive found several that look promising... but which leds to take and in which ratio is still a puzzle.

so first about the ratio of colors:
RED
DEEP RED
BLUE
ROYAL BLUE
WARM WHITE
COOL WHITE


so ive read that the ratio of RED to BLUE should be like 20% blue 80% red for flower. and maybe 30% for vegging?
is this correct?


now the "ratio" im currently thinking about using is:

2 Royal blue
1 Blue
1 Cool white

3 Deep red
2 Red
1 Warm white


what do you think about this ratio for a 10 LED lamp? more red? more blue? i could go to 13 if it has to be.



now to which LEDs to actually use. ive looked around at what i can buy and im looking at the rebels as my favorite right now. the crees look great too but id really like to get some opinions from people that have used these leds.

use google to find the leds using the official manufactur code thingi.

this is what ive chosen for royal blue. a luxeon rebel.
LXML-PR01-0500
and i'm pretty confident in this choice. on other colors im not so sure.

RED :
rebel color
LXM2-PD01-0050
doesnt seem to put out that many lumen.
im not sure this is the best led, theres a bunch of other red leds that are similar.

Deep RED:
LXM3-PD01-0350
another rebel. the only decent deep red led i could find. and i cant even buy it anywhere it seems :/

BLUE:
now here im reeeeeally not sure.
LXML-PB01-0040
again seems to have shitty lumen output
and i looked a bunch of cree leds that are blue.
theres 19 differen leds i could use :/ look heres a link:

http://www.digikey.ch/product-search/de?pv543=8&pv543=70&pv543=12&pv543=50&FV=fff40008,fff80527,1c0002,940003,15040006,15040012,15040021,15040049,15040062,15040066,15040067,1504006a,150400a7,150400af,150400c1,150400c4,150400ca,15040338,1504033c&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

are any of those better then the one i picked?


and then the whites

1 cool white
1 warm white

to "fill out" the spectrum and maybe get some combo effect going... i just think ... yknow the sun provides all the spectrum so shouldnt we do the same...

anyway picking the white leds is even harder then the color cause there is so many more options. any adive to which leds besides the rebels are good would be great.

sooo some additional questions:

is 660nm better then 630nm (deep red vs red)? do i need both?
is royal blue better then blue? do i need both?
adding whites; whats your opinion?
10 LED light doable? or do i need more?
red vs blue in vegging? how much blue for vegging?
Angle of the led lights matter? ive seen from 90 degrees to 160 degrees. whats the differnce and how much does it matter?
are the leds i picked any good and if not what leds should i use?

Redoctober said:

Thanks Karma! Are the spectra different at all from veg to bloom mode in the new XGS-190. or are both modes pure white?

....I just realized that I asked you a question about a light that isn't out yet haha! But if you happened to know the answer....

Click to expand...

Spiko said:

Same spectrum just less of it. The XGS-190 only uses one kind of diode and the switch just turns some of them off.

Click to expand...

I was going to answer your question Redoctober, but Spiko beat me to the punch, with the correct info.

Bad Karma said:

I was going to answer your question Redoctober, but Spiko beat me to the punch, with the correct info.

Click to expand...

Thanks Karma, Spiko and tallen! I would really like to do an experiment where I replace a 600w HPS with 4 A51 XGS-190 panels totaling 760w. Actually a fairer test would be 3 A51 panels totaling 570w but then I wouldn't get the discount. This will be an expensive experiment, but after reading Dawg's journal where he pulled 8.5oz off one A51 light with a single plant, I believe they can match or exceed the performance of an HPS with more even coverage due to multiple panels. I am not sure why people don't compare HPS and LED watt for watt. There seems to be this idea out there that you can get the same performance as an HPS with half the watts of LED. Maybe this is the fault of the LED companies choosing to market this way. I think the same wattage should be used for a fair comparison of performance.

There are so many LED companies out there nowadays that it's hard to know which way to turn, but it seems like A51 has their act together and so if am going to take the plunge, they seem like the right choice. No one really has anything bad to say about them, and the reports are really very good all around. If this new light is an even bigger improvement over what is currently available, I am comfortable investing with them. My other top contenders are BlackDog, Magnum, California Lightworks and Apache. I like A51 because they aren't about gimmicks or marketing, just results. I do wish there were more videos with them on YouTube (I only found 1 grow journal). Anyone know of any good journals besides Dawg's with A51's?

Does anyone know if the XGS-190 is not shipping until January? Is it only in preorder phase?
EDIT: Never mind, I see they aren't shipping until January 14th

The 2014 XGS-190 I ordered just shipped last Friday. Seems like they got their latest shipment of units in, but EH might have more info.

Stoked to try this panel in a brand new 32x32x60 tent I bought especially for it. Going to try 4 different variants on the hempy bucket with coco/rockwool.

Redoctober said:

Anyone know of any good journals besides Dawg's with A51's?

Click to expand...

This guy does amazing things with Area 51 lights. The ones he has are multiple generation old now(worse than the new stuff) and he still gets amazing results.

AdmiralSurf said:

The 2014 XGS-190 I ordered just shipped last Friday. Seems like they got their latest shipment of units in, but EH might have more info.

Stoked to try this panel in a brand new 32x32x60 tent I bought especially for it. Going to try 4 different variants on the hempy bucket with coco/rockwool.

Click to expand...

Oh, I guess they are shipping them then, nice! Can't wait to see what the new A51's can do!

Spiko said:

This guy does amazing things with Area 51 lights. The ones he has are multiple generation old now(worse than the new stuff) and he still gets amazing results.

Click to expand...

Cool, Thanks for the link Spiko, I just started reading, it looks awesome! He seems to have half the grow room HPS and half LED, I wonder which will win

Spiko said:

This guy does amazing things with Area 51 lights. The ones he has are multiple generation old now(worse than the new stuff) and he still gets amazing results.

Click to expand...

So am I gathering that the less-expensive Mars II lights from TopLED are only breaking even with the A51's? Don't the A51's use like half the wattage of those big Mars panels? I would expect that the Mars II would produce somewhat better results since they use almost twice the wattage.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm hoping not to get buyer's remorse from going with the pricey XGS-190.