Is anyone coming from 1000w mh/hps that is getting similar or better results with LEDs?

Cool! Glad you took the time! Sure it was amusing at times. Lol!
Wicked busy rn but will do my best to answer your questions but i cannot see them by the way the post came out to quote.

- i took IR Gun readings in a still air environment after the light was on for over 8 hrs. 1.5-2 hrs in a still air environment.
- completely modular, sliding, detachable & pivoting
- There is x2 Bar lights there, next to each other because one is the Bar-8 Prototype i received about x2 yrs ago. It gets quite a bit hotter & uses what is popular today fro many bar light companies as for extrusions/heatsinks.
- Photon Density / Penetration is off the charts. At 4' below the fixture @ only 660w it maintains a 500ish ppfd. You're only 700/50 ish on the top canopy of an hps lit room unless multiple cross lighting is involved.
- Bud density is nutz! Frost n terps is Nutz!
- This unit run considerably cooler then anything i have tested against. Which were many popular fixtures out as well as the other bars that are on the proto that many companies are using now. Inadequate thermal mngmt there. Bar-8 runs about 40•f cooler.
- i turn my AC right off in the winter with about 5,600w of leds. I have x2, 6" fans set on a timer to intake & exhaust at the same time but only use them to control odor & refresh air at lights out.
- Summer-Time AC does the trick in the sealed room with Co2.
- No Hot-Spot with this light. Less so even more due to the Triple, well spaced , diode layout per bar.
- My room is tough to manage so i just zip-tie the Dual-Bars to the ceiling, spread at 16" on center to reduce my overall ppfd to around 750-800 at about 8-12" below the top of the canopy on tall plants.
Because the photon density maintains so well at depth rather then dipping off by several hundred Umol per 3-6" drop, this allows the plants to get just the right amount of light per phase of growth or wk into flower as they stretch. With these spectrums they do catch a nice stretch as opposed to the Bonzia-Effect many get from other light spectrums. That allows for multiple more shoots to make it to the top as well as a lil space for light to get in & not an overcrowded bush that can get PM easier.
- The ChilLed is a nice looking light but will not achieve the same sort of results unfortunately do to their poor choice in spectrum.

Heres the new Bar-6 LUV. 25% off Pre-Orders. Ships next week. = $970 delivered.
Top-Bin, custom engineered, detachable, remote driver option, 11% outside the normal 400-700 par region.

Me,
Finally done! Will ship beginning of this coming week after final testing. The efficacy is 2.32J@720w with the heavy UV/IR.

Dual remote power-supplies with separate dimming knob and UV o/o switch. Can be ordered later with 9ft or longer custom cables for large orders taking the remote mounting route.

Serious UV coverage with 6 diodes per bar. (attached pic)

Victor



Dual power-supplies, drivers with UV o/o switch and daisy-chain socket. The Bar6 is basically two attached/foldable Bar3's for flexibility.

This is my next move then it will be the Bar-8 's with UV that will lace the ceiling.

Kassiopeija said:

why? under what setup? BTW kudos to your grow& hardware, looking very unique, never seen anything like that so in terms of spectrum you are beating any LED board hands down

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Cheers dude, ..oh a parabolic white reflector put down a very even light output with HID lamps... and am pretty certain you can get air cooled versions too... - STELTHY

FADING-SILHOUETTE said:

Cheers dude, ..oh a parabolic white reflector put down heavy PAR with HID lamps... and am pretty certain you can get air cooled versions too... - STELTHY

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Parabolic get a very low efficiency rating via Shane's testing vs regular hps hoods.
Although they have their bennifits in a vertical, spaced, grow.

Mathimus said:

I would like to add that heat is not a big issue with air cooled HID lamps, thus will not put out the same amount of heat as an LED. I'm not arguing that 600 watts of HPS power runs cooler than 600 watts of LED power. However, if they are closed hoods, ducted and being cooled by an external fan on the outside of the room, 600 watts of HPS power runs significantly cooler than 600 watts of LED power.

The LED industry is misleading by claiming LEDs put out little or no heat. Many purchase these lights and are hoodwinked into thinking heat will not be an issue because of seeing misinformation concerning LEDs not putting out heat. Just wanted to clarify what I meant in my original post.

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as a long time HPS user, who recently got into LED I don't really agree with you but fully understand what you mean and why because I felt the same way. so my grow style is a bit different so it was easy to make the change but I think it may help you understand..

so ive been using gavita DE hps for a couple years now, those are not air cooled hoods. these were very easy for me to keep cool by mounting my rooms rotating fans at a level that they flow air over the hoods, then my rooms carbon filters exhaust heat out of the room. I found this to work the exact same for me as when I ran SE 1kw hps in air cooled hoods. for me, I just switched the gravitas for timers redwoods, those run about 630 or so watts. the light output seems to be roughly the same. the leds may put out a bit more or a bit less light. the average heat in my room has gone done atleast proportional to decrease in watts.

with the way my rooms fans blow air over the heatsinks I can comfortably rest my hand on the heatsink. personally, I think the setup is very easy to manage.

before changing out the HPS for the LED I tested a smaller LED panel for around a year, some no name Chinese light in the QB style, white light with a couple red strips, averaged about 2gpw on good runs, always over 1 gps. my hps results were generally half as good on the run

Kassiopeija said:

yeah man this is a good design to blow the heat towards the leaves to cool the lamp, distribute heat and compensate the -2 temp loss from transpiration. and then its more wide than long (or the other way round donno lol) so you can fit into more setups.

it's also good that the diodes are spread apart. one of the weaknesses of HID is the central lightsource. I'm using wings & underlaying spreader to combat that in one of my HID lamp but it always comes at the cost of luminosity + increased heat + changed spectrum.

LED can do away with this weakness by design, placement of diodes. However, I have not seen any ppfd layout which was able to fully eradicate the center hotspot. For that, it seems like there shouldn't be diodes placed at the center rack....

The reflected light from a hood diminishes in strength, depending on material -3% to -30% leaving the loss always as heat. Some light pathways bounce multiple times and then add only very miniscule to the general luminosity.

How much minimum distance do you recommend for this light to the upper canopy? What about individual high shooting colas?

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I don't do anything special for taller colas, unless they physically grow into an LED it won't harm them. ,
I recommend at least about 50cm for the 550 as this measured about 900umols on a par meter.

Ted2015 said:

Never used HPS but know people who have with varying degrees of success.

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The quality of experience of the growers you know who run HPS must be just as varied as the success they had.

Any HPS grower who has at least three good grows under their belt run very successful grows under HID from my experience.

Don't try to compare growers when making claims and comparisons about lamp type.

hybridway2 said:

Parabolic get a very low efficiency rating via Shane's testing vs regular hps hoods.

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yes, and it doesn't do away with the hotspot in the middle, because that is because the middle is 20-30cm more close to the lamp than the diagonal side of the tent. The only way to deal with this is either use a spreader underneath... or growing the plants around the lamp like in a silo grow

When used correctly over large floors parabolics can earn their keep.

.

I switched from a 600w HPS to a 1,000w LED.

I notice larger and firmer buds, LARF be gone.

.

A lot of led and hps claims come from the not so amazing growers, no way anyone is getting 30% more bud than a top hps with leds cmh, maybe some but the numbers a lot give seemed more aimed at giving hps a bad name not achivable by the best.

spek9 said:

The quality of experience of the growers you know who run HPS must be just as varied as the success they had.

Any HPS grower who has at least three good grows under their belt run very successful grows under HID from my experience.

Don't try to compare growers when making claims and comparisons about lamp type.

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Mathimus said:

All things aside, I am not asking about the cheapest methods, DIY builds or 3.21 jigawatts per foot. My only concern is getting results similar to/better than an air cooled 1000w HID in a 5x5 area - in terms of yield/quality and heat dissipation.

I know people swear by HLG style quantum boards but you could cook bacon and eggs on the back of the aluminum housings. This is an automatic ex off my list. Too much heat for my liking. Does anyone have experience with a Gavita or Fluence style bar light? This could be any style bar light. How is the heat? How did stretching compare to HIDs after flip to flower? How did the mass and weight compare to the same vertical space in HID?

Again, this is for people only coming from 1000w HIDs. Thank you for sharing your experience.

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My Chilled Logic LED setup is crushing my 1000w HPS DE. Look at my grow journal, especially the one I'm about to finish.

Kassiopeija said:

yes, and it doesn't do away with the hotspot in the middle, because that is because the middle is 20-30cm more close to the lamp than the diagonal side of the tent. The only way to deal with this is either use a spreader underneath... or growing the plants around the lamp like in a silo grow

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Naw, that tip is diminished light. Nothing like the sides. No hotspot.

2Hearts said:

A lot of led and hps claims come from the not so amazing growers, no way anyone is getting 30% more bud than a top hps with leds cmh, maybe some but the numbers a lot give seemed more aimed at giving hps a bad name not achivable by the best.

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I once agreed.
Still agree on some led users submitting bogus #'s
But allot more is possible then ever thought realistic i am finding out

spek9 said:

The quality of experience of the growers you know who run HPS must be just as varied as the success they had.

Any HPS grower who has at least three good grows under their belt run very successful grows under HID from my experience.

Don't try to compare growers when making claims and comparisons about lamp type.

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I was not trying to compare, or claim anything in particular, just passing on my experience. I agree an experienced grower should do well with HPS regardless, but that goes for both light types if they have good setups of both. With both LED and HPS there are factors that will play a part in how successful they are, probably more so in LED as the gulf between a good and bad setup seems larger. I have nothing against HPS, I just prefer how my particular LED setup works in comparison to a friend who has HPS and has fantastic results with them. His is also a damn sight cheaper. I would also much prefer a good HPS over many if not most LED lights I see on the market, although they are improving all the time. I think a good grower can be hitting optimum production and quality with either as long as they have everything in check. I don't know why people have to be for one or the other.

Ted2015 said:

I was not trying to compare, or claim anything in particular, just passing on my experience. I agree an experienced grower should do well with HPS regardless, but that goes for both light types if they have good setups of both. With both LED and HPS there are factors that will play a part in how successful they are, probably more so in LED as the gulf between a good and bad setup seems larger. I have nothing against HPS, I just prefer how my particular LED setup works in comparison to a friend who has HPS and has fantastic results with them. His is also a damn sight cheaper. I would also much prefer a good HPS over many if not most LED lights I see on the market, although they are improving all the time. I think a good grower can be hitting optimum production and quality with either as long as they have everything in check. I don't know why people have to be for one or the other.

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Its Called almost double the product at half the watts

The DE HID lights are still king of the roost, But LED can come close.... I now pull around 1.84 g per watt with vero 29's though and HID isn't usable for the small room I now grow in..... LED will eventually take over but not right this minute

hybridway2 said:

Its Called almost double the product at half the watts

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If you get the right product maybe. I think I have a good one and very happy with results so far, the guy who did mine estimates his 750W draw LED is equivalent to a 1000W HPS (more realistic than most LED claims out there). Like I said I prefer LED but people have been producing very high quality bud under HPS for donkeys years and will continue to do so.

Mathimus said:

Nice ones! NL5xhaze was another that I had picked a mom for but didn't get the chance to flower. It grew very similar to the NL5 I was actually able finish to flower from Female Seeds. That was one of the few variants that had a few "weeding out". It definitely benefits from a long cure. The haze variant had the same wide internodal spacing and leaf structure. The NL5xhaze cross is actually the one strain I see from year to year that doesn't lose its legendary status among cannasaurus, or will be running along side whatever the new 30% strain is. But I've come to the conclusion it's not all thc.

May I ask, when choosing your stock plants, do you finish say, 5 phenos through flower and watch the growth and test the smoke, or is there other variables that you are looking for following the seedling being transplanted to its medium? I'll usually pop 3 or 5 and choose 2 from that after about 4 weeks based on growth rate, a little stress tolerance and smell. Then narrow it down to one. But unfortunately my space does not allow me to finish flowering different phenos of one strain. Also, I'm using feminized seeds so I know I'm not getting the best potential outcome. But again, that's because space.

I will soon add a smaller 5x5 so I can pick and choose seeds. I'm a good tester and am open for testing

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We went through 50 females over 3 grow periods to find what we wanted. We didnt take them to 100% ripeness, in case they didnt want to reveg if taken to far.

2 things we look for is the plant uses a lot of water, and is fast growing.

Put a fan over your LED rig and you’re gonna potentially run into too cool of a tent with summer AC on. For real. The heat got me out of HPS as did the power consumption. Went with HLG and haven’t looked back since. They produce great.

2Hearts said:

A lot of led and hps claims come from the not so amazing growers, no way anyone is getting 30% more bud than a top hps with leds cmh, maybe some but the numbers a lot give seemed more aimed at giving hps a bad name not achivable by the best.

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Now look, if you are going to bring 1000W HPS and 1000W LED, the LED is going to cream the HPS, probably by more than your 30%