Is Christianity Safe?

Once again, for light to be "sucked back" toward us to change our perception of it, there would need to be a black hole behind us large enough to disassemble us at the atomic level.

Your inability to grasp that became part of your "atheists are cowards" "monkeys" claptrap.

You know, there's a lot more people reading these than me, Padawan and CJ. Yet somehow I haven't really noticed anyone pipe up about you previously and say you know what you're talking about...

PadawanBater said:

What the hell is the point of that, of this?

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He gave up any semblance of trying to appear sensible.

It's just a long, drawn out, capitulation.

It could be his brain is rebooting while he evolves to atheism.

Im gonna ask this question to people I know in real life, see what kind of results I get.

I live in soCal so I'm expecting more "no, it's dangerous" answers, but we'll see. Anybody else down to do the same?

morgentaler said:

He gave up any semblance of trying to appear sensible.

It's just a long, drawn out, capitulation.

It could be his brain is rebooting while he evolves to atheism.

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Idk what it is but it's not productive, that's for sure.

The "monkey" thing is kind of ironic, if Braz is usin' it the way I think he is...

It's payday, I'm just hanging out enjoying the afternoon. All this shit aside, what are the both of you guys up to today?

I finally got out of hillbilly country isolation last night and went and played Nazi Zombies with an old buddy of mine from high school.
It was a good time. I veer wildly back and forth between missing the city and hanging out with friends every day, and just enjoying going outside and being able to breathe, see the stars at night, etc.

Today is laundry day, then then I have to take a pickaxe to frozen dirt and start filling in the trench under the house where the sewage lines went in. Whee! Indoor plumbing? Highly underrated. Especially when you go without for a while.

And now that I have the PS3 back, might have to go out and find me a copy of Modern Warfare 2.


edit:

The "monkey" thing is kind of ironic, if Braz is usin' it the way I think he is...

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Either he has contempt for the concept of evolution, or he doesn't understand it and the relationships among primates. Either way, he just looks like a sore loser every time he does it.

edit2: I would assume it's him that occasionally reps me with stupid remarks. It would fit his behavior pattern. Try to insult you, give you positive rep.

PadawanBater said:

I live in soCal so I'm expecting more "no, it's dangerous" answers, but we'll see. Anybody else down to do the same?

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Most people I know just think religion in general is a silly waste of time, like the psychic friends network and other crap.

A couple think that religion or faith are completely harmless.

Then there's one or two born agains, and I'm pretty sure they don't think it's dangerous.

And then a few people who think blind faith / religion / dogma is always dangerous.

So it's a spectrum.

The ones that think faith is harmless usually start to shift their position when you show them the effects of faith healing, using "alternative medicine" that has no basis in reality.

You see Paddy, It all started right here with me repping this post and saying that the blind and innocent become corrupted by dangerous people doing harmful things in religion, but they too are also cowards for not standing up and doing the right thing, but they are people none the less, just like atheist, who can be blind, innocent, & cowardly. And I sincerely think this was an excellent post because it was delivered with honest reasoning, and truthfullness. Not some hate bash shit

Brazko said:

All Power Corrupts, the blind with the Innocent, however, they too are Cowards and Atheists...

Excellent Post Freaky Botanist

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naked gardener said:

If Christians/Christianity were to have actually followed the lessons and example of Christ, then it could have been a beautiful thing.

I would like to say that people can believe whatever they want and that is no affront to me--but unfortunately it is the innocent believer, who outwardly harms no one, that keep the quacks in office and on television, that rally support for political candidates that stand for the opposite of what Christ stood for--even though s/he SAYS otherwise. Makes no sense. As long as a politician says they are a Christian and/or Pro-life, they will get blind votes from people who have learned to swallow what ever has been spoon fed to them.

As for pro-life...It's strange how much a republican cares about you when you are in the womb--but God-forbid you need some assistance once you are actually BORN. Guess what Christian Republicans...Jesus was not only Jewish...he was also A SOCIALIST. He advocated communal living, sharing resources and assisting the poor.

Christianity has been perverted by politics since it gained popularity (300 yrs after Jesus died).

There was a time when the Church had nearly omnipotent power over the West...that period is referred to as The Dark Ages. That alone tells us how dangerous religion can be, historically and presently.

Jesus loves the HELL out you!!

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Here she calls me a rambling idiot for what? Do you read your posts are just cherry pick what you wish to acknowedge?

morgentaler said:

Cowardly is walking around proclaiming your belief in Sky Captain Jesus as eternal fire insurance.

Cowardly is standing up in the pulpit and political chambers as a Christian attacking the immorality of single parents and gays, only to be caught out in a mens room or a parked car with a prostitute's cock in your mouth.

Cowardly is teaching children if they don't follow the bible they will burn in hell.

Cowardly is using the term "atheist coward" whenever you don't have an actual argument to present because you're a rambling idiot.

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It was nothing meant to be productive to the topic, I already added to a sense of degree of how I felt about christanity. But to be clear, it's not dangerous, People are, and Yes some harmful shit has been done behind the cloak of Christanity/Religion. But's it's not dangerous, and if the spread of religion cease to exist as we evolve, so be it. But it's nothing that I feel endangered by. Present Christanity/Religion contribute more good than harm collectively, and to isolate Christanity to the selective few people, or groups compared to the whole, and say it is dangerous is absurd.

And you're not that slow, are you? Yes, I'm being a Monkee right along with her. But I'm an evolved Primate (man). She still thinks like MonKee, so a MonKee she'll be.

Anyhow, I'm about to load up a bowl as I type now bro'...

PadawanBater said:

Idk what it is but it's not productive, that's for sure.

The "monkey" thing is kind of ironic, if Braz is usin' it the way I think he is...

It's payday, I'm just hanging out enjoying the afternoon. All this shit aside, what are the both of you guys up to today?

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hahahahahaahha, You have no Clue of what the Hell you are talking about..., There is a Black Hole Behind Us , MonkEE, and Yes, our perception of light changes when it comes towards us. It turns Blue, there's a Big Blue Light coming Towards Us Now, as we speak.. There is probably blue light everywhere, we just don't have the technology to observe it's occurence within other galaxies..MOnkee

Monkee........, where did you learn to think like that, Disassembling us at the Atomic Level, My inability to grasp became evident to you, huh?

Hey Morgue, why would someone choose, or not choose to say I know what I'm talking about? before you answer that, think about it....OOooops, My bad.

I think somebody just told me to stop teasing..., I'm sorry.. It's all good.

morgentaler said:

Once again, for light to be "sucked back" toward us to change our perception of it, there would need to be a black hole behind us large enough to disassemble us at the atomic level.

Your inability to grasp that became part of your "atheists are cowards" "monkeys" claptrap.

You know, there's a lot more people reading these than me, Padawan and CJ. Yet somehow I haven't really noticed anyone pipe up about you previously and say you know what you're talking about...

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Brazko said:

hahahahahaahha, You have no Clue of what the Hell you are talking about..., There is a Black Hole Behind Us , MonkEE, and Yes, our perception of light changes when it comes towards us. It turns Blue, there's a Big Blue Light coming Towards Us Now, as we speak.. There is probably blue light everywhere, we just don't have the technology to observe it's occurence within other galaxies..MOnkee

Monkee........, where did you learn to think like that, Disassembling us at the Atomic Level, My inability to grasp became evident to you, huh?

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You just showed once again that you have no idea at all what you're saying. Sure you can parrot phrases about doppler shifting, and black holes, but you don't actually learn anything about it.

Remember when I posted about how if the sun disappeared earth would be affected gravitationally instantly but the light would still not disappear for 8 minutes? And then a day or so later I came back and updated it in a later post because the episode of The Universe that mentioned it used newtonian physics for the example, but a later episode addressed it with Einsteinian physics and gravitational waves.

Well, you still haven't admitted your own incomprehension of what you were saying.

WE may actually be seeing farther INto Space than What the Actually size of The Physical Universe May Be, VIA Light.... HOwever Light is Being Sucked Back AS WEll...

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For light to be "sucked back" the light must already be going away from us. For the lens effect - which only changes the direction of light by small amounts - you need a massive object like the sun.
To "suck" it back, you would need that black hole. If the black hole was between us and the light we would never see the light.
If it was behind us and it was exerting enough force to pull light back from billions of light years away, we'd already be disintegrated. We'd have been torn apart atom by atom and integrated into the singularity.

Is that plain enough for you? Or do we need to break out Elmo again?



The red/blue of the doppler shift has nothing to do with black holes. And is unrelated to your previous statement. It is caused by a perceived difference in wavelength due to the speed at which we are moving away/toward objects. Just like with sound waves!

Go take a physics class already. And pay attention instead of seeing how much pot you can cram in your pipe.

And then you cry about being called a rambling idiot when you've already been calling other people "athiest cowards".

Well, guess what? I won't be shedding any tears over any hard feelings you have. You finally learned how to use the text editor and not talk like a little kid that just discovered caps-lock. Whoopee. Does that make anything you have to say now valid? Want some respect around here? Earn it.

Good luck though. You're in the hole. Maybe a black one. Try sucking some light back so you can see your way out.

Morgue, everything your post just stated, I Understand Completely.. Yet, it has nothing to do with what I said. Cocoa

Goodbye

Brazko said:

Morgue, everything your post just stated, I Understand Completely.. Yet, it has nothing to do with what I said. Cocoa

Goodbye

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It might not have anything to do with what you meant. It had everything to do with what you said.

Brazko said:

It was nothing meant to be productive to the topic, I already added to a sense of degree of how I felt about christanity. But to be clear, it's not dangerous, People are, and Yes some harmful shit has been done behind the cloak of Christanity/Religion. But's it's not dangerous, and if the spread of religion cease to exist as we evolve, so be it. But it's nothing that I feel endangered by. Present Christanity/Religion contribute more good than harm collectively, and to isolate Christanity to the selective few people, or groups compared to the whole, and say it is dangerous is absurd.

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It is dangerous. Check the results of the poll at the top. A bunch of us have given our reasons why we think it's dangerous. You're more than welcome to address them, I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say. You can either read through the thread or I can re-state em', no prob.

I totally disagree with that statement. Organized religion is the number one problem our society faces today.

PadawanBater said:

It is dangerous. Check the results of the poll at the top. A bunch of us have given our reasons why we think it's dangerous. You're more than welcome to address them, I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say. You can either read through the thread or I can re-state em', no prob.

I totally disagree with that statement. Organized religion is the number one problem our society faces today.

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Well said padawan...well said lol

I've read the thread for the most part, but reiterate what the present danger of Christianity is?

And not to take jabs at your poll, but its significance is none. Its like me asking a poll question to a religious based audience if atheism is dangerous you see. What would be more productive to your query is to take a piece of paper out in your area as you stated and take a random poll. No ad lib.. Just is Christianity dangerous or not. Then tell me the results of your poll. Christians have an distaste I guarantee towards corrupt officials/clergy that are hypocrites and impostors. They believe these people to be dangerous and harmful to Christianity, however, that doesn't make them the christians dangerous. But reiterate, are we talking organized religion or, simply Christianity.

PadawanBater said:

It is dangerous. Check the results of the poll at the top. A bunch of us have given our reasons why we think it's dangerous. You're more than welcome to address them, I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say. You can either read through the thread or I can re-state em', no prob.

I totally disagree with that statement. Organized religion is the number one problem our society faces today.

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Brazko said:

I've read the thread for the most part, but reiterate what the present danger of Christianity is?

And not to take jabs at your poll, but its significance is none. Its like me asking a poll question to a religious based audience if atheism is dangerous you see. What would be more productive to your query is to take a piece of paper out in your area as you stated and take a random poll. No ad lib.. Just is Christianity dangerous or not. Then tell me the results of your poll. Christians have an distaste I guarantee towards corrupt officials/clergy that are hypocrites and impostors. They believe these people to be dangerous and harmful to Christianity, however, that doesn't make them the christians dangerous. But reiterate, are we talking organized religion or, simply Christianity.

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The biggest danger Christians pose to society is their disregard for the Constitution when it suits them. Now this is not limited to Christians, but they are the most egregious offenders in this regard. Furthermore, they have gotten away with it for so long that they feel slighted, even persecuted, when challenged by people like me.

PadawanBater said:

It is dangerous. Check the results of the poll at the top. A bunch of us have given our reasons why we think it's dangerous. You're more than welcome to address them, I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say. You can either read through the thread or I can re-state em', no prob.

I totally disagree with that statement. Organized religion is the number one problem our society faces today.

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Does a bunch of people taking a poll on a weed site really make that the reality? What's real for some is fantasy for others and vice versa. Your opinion and the opinion of some others is that Christianity is dangerous. I could killl a man with a spoon. Does that make spoons dangerous?

PadawanBater said:

Those of us lucky enough to live in somewhat secular households while we were growing up witnessed it with our own eyes, and those of us smart enough to keep them open realized it's bullshit.

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Dude, thats leading the question.
This isn't a forum of open investigation.. you've already formulated one and obviously hold any other perspective in disdain. Intruth you arn't looking anymore you are attempting to sway others with your ground breaking research (sarcasm).
Clearly, you have a ax to grind.


BTW. I was raised in a secular household and was EXTREMELY antagonistic towards organized religion in general and Christianity in particular. I had a conversion experience at 24 and spent the better part of 2 years attempting to refute the Bible (KJV), then the prophetic record and finally the Messianic prophecies.

I agree, I wouldn't even say its just extreme fundamentalists, but fundamentalist & the politicians that want their vote, but importantly its the politicians. And yes we elect them into office, but its just not Christians who elect them. I feel that our constitutional freedoms do get infringed upon by religious politics, but for a nation built ground up on Christian values/morals, It must be noted that the ability to evolve and adapt has always been in the direction of positive with Christianity. I wish things could instantly be right, but that's not how things evolve right?

Johnnyorganic said:

The biggest danger Christians pose to society is their disregard for the Constitution when it suits them. Now this is not limited to Christians, but they are the most egregious offenders in this regard. Furthermore, they have gotten away with it for so long that they feel slighted, even persecuted, when challenged by people like me.

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Brazko said:

I've read the thread for the most part, but reiterate what the present danger of Christianity is?

And not to take jabs at your poll, but its significance is none. Its like me asking a poll question to a religious based audience if atheism is dangerous you see. What would be more productive to your query is to take a piece of paper out in your area as you stated and take a random poll. No ad lib.. Just is Christianity dangerous or not. Then tell me the results of your poll. Christians have an distaste I guarantee towards corrupt officials/clergy that are hypocrites and impostors. They believe these people to be dangerous and harmful to Christianity, however, that doesn't make them the christians dangerous. But reiterate, are we talking organized religion or, simply Christianity.

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I get to the significance of the poll in my response to doc, below.

As for the issues, it's mostly with organized religion. I find most people who practice their beliefs who do not visit church on a regular basis are the most normal believers of the bunch. So obviously that means that the abuse these people put out in society is taught to them, either through some interpretation they learned in church or something they were told by their fundamentalist pastor. So my biggest beef is with organized religion. The flocking together to swap terrible ideas that are not based on science.

That's the side you see, the side of organized religion that you can actively be wary of and avoid if you want. But then there's the other side... The hidden side, the dark side of religion, belief. The side that tells you to turn off that critical thinking section of your brain (because that's the only fuckin' way anyone would ever believe it) and take it on 'faith'. They tell you it's not going to make sense to you, but that's because it "can't" or because "you can't understand it".

This mentality actively dumbs down our youth. I laid it all out there in one of jeff's threads. How it goes from innocent belief system, not harming anyone, to voting in elections, to electing fundamentalists into the white house and lower houses to affecting our foreign policy, to affecting a lot of our domestic policy (ban on stem cell research, war on drugs, etc.)... it's like a domino effect. Organized religion is in every single facet of our way of life, and specifically Christianity because we live in America.

So to sum it up for you Braz, I think organized religion is dangerous because it makes people incapable of learning and understanding knowledge. There are a million examples of this on youtube. I can provide an example or two of the kind of person I'm referring to, but again, like I said, and I'm sure most of us agree, most of the believers are as harmless as a house cat... but their passive belief system is what allows the more fanatical ones to exist.

doc111 said:

Does a bunch of people taking a poll on a weed site really make that the reality? What's real for some is fanasy for others and vice versa. Your opinion and the opinion of some others is that Christianity is dangerous. I could killl a man with a spoon. Does that make spoons dangerous?

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No, obviously not, the poll isn't "scientific" in the least. What it does though is provide a rough concensus of peoples opinions here on RIU. That, with the reasons provided, serves as a pretty good start. (I haven't seen any believers address any of the actual problems, have you?) Is it just a coincidence we all have similar complaints?

NavarreFla said:

Dude, thats leading the question.
This isn't a forum of open investigation.. you've already formulated one and obviously hold any other perspective in disdain. Intruth you arn't looking anymore you are attempting to sway others with your ground breaking research (sarcasm).
Clearly, you have a ax to grind.


BTW. I was raised in a secular household and was EXTREMELY antagonistic towards organized religion in general and Christianity in particular. I had a conversion experience at 24 and spent the better part of 2 years attempting to refute the Bible (KJV), then the prophetic record and finally the Messianic prophecies.

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Yeah, you're right, I obviously did have an opinion when I started this thread, as everyone does. But you're incorrect in saying that I'm trying to sway peoples minds. I don't recall ever saying "convert to atheism" - or something similar... Throughout the thread you'll see me and a few others support logical positions and rational ideas, so I guess it's in a way indirectly telling people not to be so blindly ignorant anymore, but I couldn't give a fuck less what you believe to be honest, skim the thread, as I told Braz, all the reasons are there, address each of them if you have an issue. Don't just say "it's not dangerous"... Tell me why.

PadawanBater said:

I get to the significance of the poll in my response to doc, below.

As for the issues, it's mostly with organized religion. I find most people who practice their beliefs who do not visit church on a regular basis are the most normal believers of the bunch. So obviously that means that the abuse these people put out in society is taught to them, either through some interpretation they learned in church or something they were told by their fundamentalist pastor. So my biggest beef is with organized religion. The flocking together to swap terrible ideas that are not based on science.

That's the side you see, the side of organized religion that you can actively be wary of and avoid if you want. But then there's the other side... The hidden side, the dark side of religion, belief. The side that tells you to turn off that critical thinking section of your brain (because that's the only fuckin' way anyone would ever believe it) and take it on 'faith'. They tell you it's not going to make sense to you, but that's because it "can't" or because "you can't understand it".

This mentality actively dumbs down our youth. I laid it all out there in one of jeff's threads. How it goes from innocent belief system, not harming anyone, to voting in elections, to electing fundamentalists into the white house and lower houses to affecting our foreign policy, to affecting a lot of our domestic policy (ban on stem cell research, war on drugs, etc.)... it's like a domino effect. Organized religion is in every single facet of our way of life, and specifically Christianity because we live in America.

So to sum it up for you Braz, I think organized religion is dangerous because it makes people incapable of learning and understanding knowledge. There are a million examples of this on youtube. I can provide an example or two of the kind of person I'm referring to, but again, like I said, and I'm sure most of us agree, most of the believers are as harmless as a house cat... but their passive belief system is what allows the more fanatical ones to exist.



No, obviously not, the poll isn't "scientific" in the least. What it does though is provide a rough concensus of peoples opinions here on RIU. That, with the reasons provided, serves as a pretty good start. (I haven't seen any believers address any of the actual problems, have you?) Is it just a coincidence we all have similar complaints?



Yeah, you're right, I obviously did have an opinion when I started this thread, as everyone does. But you're incorrect in saying that I'm trying to sway peoples minds. I don't recall ever saying "convert to atheism" - or something similar... Throughout the thread you'll see me and a few others support logical positions and rational ideas, so I guess it's in a way indirectly telling people not to be so blindly ignorant anymore, but I couldn't give a fuck less what you believe to be honest, skim the thread, as I told Braz, all the reasons are there, address each of them if you have an issue. Don't just say "it's not dangerous"... Tell me why.

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I feel and respect what you're saying but I don't think it's that simple. Nothing is ever so simple when the layers are peeled back. And some feel the way they do because of how they are raised and some feel the way they do because of experience. I wouldn't go so far as to say christianity is safe but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's dangerous either. I keep getting accused of being on the fence. I make no apologies. A fair and open observation is what I strive for. Doesn't always happen but hey.......................

doc111 said:

I feel and respect what you're saying but I don't think it's that simple. Nothing is ever so simple when the layers are peeled back. And some feel the way they do because of how they are raised and some feel the way they do because of experience. I wouldn't go so far as to say christianity is safe but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's dangerous either. I keep getting accused of being on the fence. I make no apologies. A fair and open observation is what I strive for. Doesn't always happen but hey.......................

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Well look at it this way. Imagine a world without religion. Actually think about it, not a world where religion vanished, a world where religion never got off the ground and nobody ever conceived of a god. What do you think those people would be doing instead?

Consider all the ancient philosophers and how some of them were exiled, executed, ect for some of the things they were saying - would the contributions made by them maybe have had an earlier head start on society?

Consider all the ancient technology without the rituals and cults of the ancient world. What did the ancient Egyptians provide us with? The Aztecs, Chinese... again, some of the same questions need to be asked about technology but this one has a different side to it - with war - brought on by religious motivations - new technologies arose... Countless things were provided by warfare, to what degree each individual conflicts motivations were solely based on religion is debatable, and hard to know for sure... (but think about it, whose to say some of those millions, if not billions of people killed in warfare throughout human history wouldn't have invented these new technologies that came about during a time of warfare? Further, whose to say mankind is better off with the inventions those wars provided? Are we really better off having nuclear weapons? M16's? F22's?... you be the judge of that)

Science? This is one facet of humanity I think religion has done nothing BUT HINDER. Since the beginning, science has been proving religious texts incorrect, and since the beginning, the early believers realized this would be a very big problem. Since I believe science is our biggest weapon against anything that might come between us and the future, our survival, I see religion as the number one obstacle to that goal.