Is Fem worth the extra money?

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Thank you very much for the advice, I am very versed in seed production, and crossing but never created pollen from a female yet, infact since I have been keeping my crop alive by cloning I have almost forgotten about seeds.

It's only since I had alomst lost one of my strains to spidermites that it made me realise something I already know, and that's if you want to keep it then make a backup.

I have read about colloidal silver in the past, but somehow cannot find the aricle. I do understand the genetics and know that the parent plant only need be a female.

I would like to thank you for your information, I always prefer to listen to people who have actually succeeded in a practice rather than just a re-spun aricles on the internet.

I will have a look on amazon, and see if I can get stocked up with some and get making seeds again. Thanks again and you just might get a PM from me in the near future.
ATTENTION!!! ALWAYS ORDER SEPARATELY FROM TWO DIFFERENT SOURCES!!! YOU HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED
The following is a safe, inexpensive, and successful method for reversing the sex of female cannabis plants. Individual plant responses may vary based upon strain, but I can verify that this process is fully effective in stimulating profuse staminate flower production.

This process can be used to:
A: create new feminized seeds from solitary prize mothers that you currently have
B: create interesting feminized-seed hybrids from different prize strains that you currently have
C: create feminized seeds for optimum outdoor use
D: accelerate the "interview" phase of cultivation, in searching for interesting new clone-mothers
E: reduce total plant numbers- great for medical users with severe plant number restrictions
F: increase variety, by helping to create stable feminized seedlines to be used as an alternative to clones

At the bottom of this post are some specific details about the chemicals used, their safety, their cost, and where to get them.

It is important to educate yourself about cannabis breeding theory and technique prior to using a method like this one. Here is a link to Robert Clarke's "Marijuana Botany", which is a very good reference.

http://planetganja.net/Ebooks/Marijuana%20Botany.pdf

It is also important to use basic safety precautions when mixing and handling these chemicals, so read the safety data links provided. The risk is similar to mixing and handling chemical fertilizers, and similar handling procedures are sufficient.

Remember: nothing will ever replace good genetics, and some of your bounty should always go back towards the professional cannabis breeders out there... the ones who have worked for many generations to come up with their true-breeding F1 masterpieces. Support professional breeders by buying their seeds. Also, order from Heaven's Stairway. Not that they need a plug from me, but they are very professional and provide very fast service worldwide.

Preparation of STS:
First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: 0.5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss. Excess working solution can be safely poured down the drain after use (with ample running water) with negligible environmental impact. It's pretty cheap.

Each liter of stock STS will make ten 1-liter batches of working solution of STS. With the minimum amount of base chemicals ordered from Photographer's Formulary (see link below), this means that each 1-liter bottle of working solution STS costs less than 9 cents, and can treat 15-20 mid-sized plants. That's 200 1-liter batches of STS for $18. Note that the distilled water costs far more than the chemicals.

Application:
The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:
Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidently. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very carefulollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.

About the chemicals:
Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

.preparation of silver thiosulfate (sts) solution

silver thiosulfate (sts) is commonly used to block the action of ethylene in plant cell cultures. Ethylene is a hormone that is present in the gaseous state. Ethylene increases during senescence and ripening, and has been shown to increase in plant cell cultures due to wounding or the presence of auxins. Silver nitrate may be used alone to block the action of ethylene but it is not transported as well as sts thus is seldom used alone.

Prepare a 0.1 m sodium thiosulfate (sts) stock solution by dissolving 1.58 g of sodium thiosulfate (product no. S 620) into 100 ml of water. Prepare a 0.1 m silver nitrate stock solution by dissolving 1.7 g of silver nitrate (product no. S 169) into 100 ml of water. Store the stock solution in the dark until needed to prepare the sts.

The sts solution is prepared with a molar ratio between silver and thiosulfate of 1:4, respectively. Nearly all of the silver present in the solution is in the form of [ag (s2o3)2]3-, the active complex for ethylene effect inhibition.
Prepare a 0.02 m sts by slowly pouring 20 ml of 0.1 m silver nitrate stock solution into 80 ml of 0.1 m sodium thiosulfate stock solution. The sts can be stored in the refrigerator for up to a month. However, preparation of the sts just prior to use is recommended.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





A SIMPLE SAFE AND INEXPENSIVE FEMMING METHOD

LINKS TO THE CHEMICALS:

sodium thiosulfate

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124109-REG/Photographers_Formulary_10_1370_1LB_Sodium_Thiosulfate_Anhydrous.html

Silver Nitrate

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Silver-Nitrate-10g-P6503.aspx


ATTENTION!!! ALWAYS ORDER SEPARATELY FROM TWO DIFFERENT SOURCES!!!
 

Chronic Masterbator

Well-Known Member
imho breeders selling f1s and f2s are F'ing douches.. especially when they only sell reg seeds (you know who im talking about). just think, out of a ten pack, only 5 are female and HOPEFULLY 1 of those 5 is a decent pheno. then what, you are expected to clone that one plant forever or buy another 10 pack and search again... bullshit. Save yourself time and money and do like trouser said. buy fem seeds, select the best pheno, take 2 clones, reverse it into itself and BAM you now have a huge batch of seeds that are way better/more stable than what you would have bought. do this each generation and holy shit.. your on your way to a killer ibl as opposed to some breeders f1 hybrid that they are trying to call a strain.
Sounds good but didn't the best hybrids and strains come from land of race strains??
 

ILoveYouSweetLeaf

Well-Known Member
mate you deff want to buy femz seeds think you grow couple of weeks b4 see they sex
and then it becomes 10 of 5 are males and the risk you take to growing get busted at
the end you cut them and shit nothing.even femz seed are not 100% female but at last
90% so yes they worth it mate but if you got time to wast and dont afraid of risk the cops come
knock you door go for it.
I am not doubting what you say because I know nothing yet. But can you elaborate what you mean by this "but if you got time to wast and dont afraid of risk the cops come knock you door go for it". What are you saying about cops coming to your door? Do you mean by buying regs you need more grow space because on average you'll get 50percent males, and bigger space equals more attention. what do you mean?
 

BluntM8

Active Member
Sounds good but didn't the best hybrids and strains come from land of race strains??
not sure what you are getting at here. every strain originated from a landrace at some point. a landrace has interbreed for countless generations to stabilize its genetics. a HYBRID will show a number of completely different phenos while a STRAIN should be far more uniform. what I described is a faster method to preserve the specific traits of a hybrid, or in other words, to turn the best pheno that derived from a hybrid into a STRAIN. this can be done with reg seeds but would be MUCH faster doing it with fems.
 

BluntM8

Active Member
I am not doubting what you say because I know nothing yet. But can you elaborate what you mean by this "but if you got time to wast and dont afraid of risk the cops come knock you door go for it". What are you saying about cops coming to your door? Do you mean by buying regs you need more grow space because on average you'll get 50percent males, and bigger space equals more attention. what do you mean?
that dude clearly had no clue as to what he is talking about, what he wrote is barely even legible, but yes, I think that is what he was trying to get at
 

BluntM8

Active Member
it is also worth noting that there is absolutely no difference between a fem that came from a pack of reg seeds vs a fem that came from a pack of feminized seeds... both equally will hermie with colloidal silver and both equally will hermie in bad conditions as it is a defense mechanism.
 

BluntM8

Active Member
the theory against breeding with fems is this: if a plant already prone to hermie gets hit with colloidal silver it will pass on its hermie prone genetics unnoticed (obviously). and is easily countered by this: when selecting your breeding parents you first give a bit of a stress test to ensure that they are not hermie prone. problem solved, and happy feminized breeding stoners
 

Chronic Masterbator

Well-Known Member
As I keep doing my thing I'll document differences. I have a article laying around high times or cannabis culture. Soma if I remember correctly uses a "light poisoning" to produce FEMS?? There is silver, and Giberilic acid. Which is most advisable? Thinking about making fem stock.
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
As I keep doing my thing I'll document differences. I have a article laying around high times or cannabis culture. Soma if I remember correctly uses a "light poisoning" to produce FEMS?? There is silver, and Giberilic acid. Which is most advisable? Thinking about making fem stock.
Soma employs "Rodelization" to create fems. He allows the plant (female) to enter senescence, past the peak of potency for the survival trait to kick in and cause male flowers to collect pollen from. IMO this is the worst possible method and has the unintentional promotion of the survival trait as it is employed in the process.

STS is the most widely used method by fem seed breeders as it is inexpensive, safe, easy, and dependable. I already posted previously how to employ this technique and where to obtain the chemicals. You only need to spray 2 or at the most 3 times, a week apart starting the first day of initiating the flower cycle of 12/12 known as the flip.

Colloidal silver also works but you need spray much more often.

Gibberellic acid has other potential effects which are not worth the extra effort.

I have never had a plant treated with STS as in my previous post the did not produce pollen, so IMO it is the better choice and the method I employ exclusively. It as well as colloidal silver have nothing to do with the survival trait and therefore botanically impossible to encourage the dreaded "herman" survival gene/trait.
 

Chronic Masterbator

Well-Known Member
The tranny trait is the one I'm most trying to avoid. I would flip if ive seen it in my seed stock. Guess I'm being ocd on it. I know how to administer the acid method. I think I might go silver method though. Just for the fact its safer.

Having to wear gloves using that acid shit had me thinking.
 

BluntM8

Active Member
ive heard mixed results on the effectiveness of colloidal silver. this is most likely due to people's failed attempts at making their own and/or how frequently it needs to be applied. giberelic acid is also commonly used to increase production in plants but can stunt growth if used in too high of a concentration
 

BluntM8

Active Member
Soma employs "Rodelization" to create fems. He allows the plant (female) to enter senescence, past the peak of potency for the survival trait to kick in and cause male flowers to collect pollen from. IMO this is the worst possible method and has the unintentional promotion of the survival trait as it is employed in the process.
so maybe fem seeds created by rodelization are in fact hermie prone to some degree. either way, I wont risk buying fems from soma
 

iiKode

Well-Known Member
You said that feminized seeds are more likely to "hermie."
That is bullshit.

Bad advice is bad advice no matter how long you have been growing.
i hate this word of keyboard shit, fems a hermy fs id rather hav a fem hermy on me than lose half my crop due to males.

its genetics not fem or reg. I read this as well, hermys are gentic, so stress will create a hermy if the genetics arnt good, people think stress will automatically create a hermy, not if you are growing good genetics they wont, same with the light leak thing.
 
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