Hi al thanks for that. I'm gonna go the denser buds and less work lol. Especially as the yield would probably be the same. Same money+ less work = success!.
Yep.
I was wondering if I could pick ur brain abit on the use of bottled co2 in a grow room. I'm not fully commited yet but pretty sure I will be investing in CO2. I live in the uk and even though we run 240v I don't have the available load capacity to add aircon. I can maintain constant 28`c all day and only really use my exhaust system to replenish the air. I did a test with no plants in the room and a thermostatic fan controller and the temp only got high enough twice throught the day to trigger a air exchange. I have a de humidifier which keeps rh at 40-50%. Knowing this I think I could get away with no aircon, seeing as I'll only be using my fans 2 times per light cycle. I read that plants favour a higher temp and rh when growing in a co2 enriched environment (say 1400 ppm). So al my questions to you are as follows; what is the ideal air temperature?
With CO2, you can run up to about 29C. Above that, THC begins to break down.
40-60%
How would I recirculate the co2 that isn't used, because its heavier than air and sinks to the floor doesn't it?
Your oscillating circ fans will keep the room air homogenised.
Oh and also could you tell me how I would have the co2 controller doser and monitor rigged up to a fan controller so that when the room reaches a set temp the co2 is shut off and the fans run to cool the room, then when the fans shut off the monitor senses how much co2 has been lost and releases another dose to replenish the room. I found one I like the look of its by echotechnics its the complete co2 package (doser monitor controller) it says it can be used in conjunction with their own fan speed controller but that's an extra £210. Am I going to need this or is there some other way I can rig it up. I know you're a whizz with the tech stuff n thought you'd probably be the best person to ask. Thanks al!
Integrated controllers are really the best way to go if you're going to run CO2- and none of them are cheap. In fact, I have elected not to use CO2 because the cost of the controller, gas & gas bottle rental are so high that I don't think I can justify the expense in my own op. Your mileage may vary. However, if you're going to go to the expense and effort of running CO2, I would recommend that you atomate as much of it as possible. If your op is big enough to justify CO2 (mine isn't), you'll be earning back the purchase price of the system pretty readily. 210 squids isn't that much in the general scheme of things.
Nope I shouldn't lol
But I've seen mother plants outgrow 5 gallon buckets in DWC.
I really don't think I'd bother with running mums in DWC. It's too easy to run them in a small flood system. Moreover, I'm not a fan of DWC in general due to complexity & reliability issues. If you have an air pump or power failure lasting more than about 3 hours, you can lose the lot. Flood systems are much more tolerant of power failures. a 24 hour power outage is no big deal for a flood system. Much more than that and mums will start to flower- and this can be disastrous. It takes a number of weeks to revert a mum in flower back to full veg mode. This completely fucks the workflow in a SoG op.
Al, I'm growing in a crawlspace where even in the summer temps stay realitivly cool but I'm running six 600 watt hps on three 1000w ballasts with splitters. Right now my temps are around 75-80F but will warm up. I think I read somewhere you recommended cool tubes? If that could drop my temps 5-10 degrees that would be significant. I don't know anyone that uses them but had someone tell me they weren't that good. Would appreciate any input as I'm tired of adding more equipment to my ever growing collection. Thanks in advance.
Hang on- you're running a 2x 600W HPS bottles on a single 1000W ballast? How's that work?
Your flowering room should never exceed 26C.
Anyone who recommends against cooltubes frankly doesn't know WTF they're talking about. Cooltubes are brilliant for controlling room airmass temps. Dramatically improves temp stability. They should run on a closed air circuit; this is to say they should source & dump their air from outside the room airmass. They're essential in ops running CO2 & aircon as they significantly reduce the load on the aircon while preserving the CO2 in the room's airmass instead of blowing it out every time the lighting heats up the airmass. Cooltubes will knock at least half the power cost of aircon in CO2 equipped systems as well as significantly reducing the amount of gas that needs to be dispensed into the room. Crazy not to use them, even if you're not using CO2.
Cooltubes are an excellent investment and well worth there money. Probably pay for themselves after the first crop due to better yield cos u can have ur lights much closer. The glass of my cooltubes sits about 8" from canopy. Since getting cooltubes and dropping them down I have been getting much tighter harder buds.
And fuckin' how.
Normal cooltubes will have a built in reflector which isn't very good as far as reflectors go. This can usually be taken out. I have 2 runs with 2 600s in each. 8" cooltubes 8" ducting and 8" fan. This is overkill for 2 600s but when I bought the cooltubes the plan allways was to upgrade to 1000s. As far as reflectors go you want a wing shaped one like an ajusta wing or something similar. I have cheap imitations which will soon be getting changed for adjustawings. They allow all of the available light to be used that would otherwise be trapped in the reflector or reflected back at the bulb. It would depend on what shape your grow room was as to how efficiently you can cool the lights. If you could have a straight run with rigid aluminium ducting from a 6" centrifugal fan blowing cold air from outside the rooms airmass thru the cooltubes to somewhere else outside the rooms airmass, then I would reckon you could definatly have 3 600s in series. So 2 runs of 3. It also depends on the temp of the air ur blowing from outside. Als thread get a harvest every 2 weeks has quite a lot on the importance and workings of his cooltube system. I think its around page 90 ishhh aswell as a lot of repitition of the information throughout.
Yep, all that. The refs included with most cooltubes are crap. This is why I've fitted mine with Adjust-A-Wings double-parabolic reflectors. 3 cooltubes in series is as many as I'd do- and really does require a centrif blower. Depending upon the centrif blower, you may be able to drive 2x 3 seriesed cooltubes with a single blower. 2 in series can be done with an axial blower. When the air in the cooltubes gets warm enough compared to room airmass temp, heat will be transferred through the ductwork surfaces, into the room airmass, defeating the purpose. If your ductwork is warm to the touch, heat is being transferred into the room airmass. The solution is to wrap the ducts with insulation of some sort or increase the airflow through the ducting with more blower power. Centrif blowers can cope with more bends & airflow restrictions as they can generate a fair bit of pressure, where axial blowers, by their nature, just can't. Pressure leaks backward between the blades of axial blowers.
Hey Al,
Been lurking here for quite a while reading your posts and i have a question or two if you do not mind?
I am in the process of putting together a medical grow op in which i am limited to 45 flowering plants at any given time. In the pre medical days i ran a fairly large NFT op and more recently several quite small personal ops. I am once again in it for the numbers as i am supplying one medical patient and my local coop. or rather will be. Since i was able to run as many plants as i wanted in my large NFT o ( it was illegal so 5 plants or 99 same diff)
While I sympathise with ppl trying to keep an op 'legal' under medical grower restrictions, if you are concerned that LEO will ever be in your op counting plants, your security culture behaviour isn't up to scratch. You can only fuck that up once, so don't. Build up a good op & crank it out- and always remember- silence.
Shit touchpads suck for typing sorry.
ill cut to the chase. i have been thinking about implementing either your flood system (albiet with less plants) or dwc buckets as i think that with my prior hydro knowledge that i can get faster growth in dwc than in a flood set up and bigger plants. Im quite high and being overly verbose.
Do you think that your system( with a veg period done in seperate room) would perform as well as a dwc set up?
Oh, so you're saying you're going to stick to plant count limits? OK. This puts a bit of a damper on things. SoG is not the best way to go if you are sticking to plant count limits, but any method where you are vegging before you flower is going to give you tall plants. Tall plants do not work well under artificial lighting to to limitations on foliar penetration. Any bud more than about 700mm from a 1000HPS bottle (or the focus point of a double parabolic reflector) is going to come up fluffy, wispy & be barely worth your time to manicure in a system where the flowering period is limited to 8 weeks. Somewhat longer flowering periods (to 10 wks) can compensate to a degree for tall plants, but there's other complications that come with longer flowering periods.
DWC is complex, especially when there's a large number of plants, and has an Achilles heel, notably in times of power failures or if an air pump dies. In my not so fucking humble opinion, all DWC ops should have backup power, such as from an uninterruptible power supply capable of sustaining the system for at least 3 days. You should also keep a spare air pump on hand, as a defence against failure of a pump on a weekend or other time when you can't get a replacement pump within a couple of hours.
I'd strongly recommend a flood system; the reliability factor trumps any improvement in yield from DWC. NFT systems are more resistant to power failures than DWC and provide similar levels of root oxygenation, but NFT has its own set of complexities, notably in limited plant portability within the op.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1275.htm I seen this a while back. What do you guys think of the 9 plants per square foot crack? I think this would only work with a sativa. I don't think my whappa girls would be happy that densley packed! What do you think?
I don't think much of it. Packing plants in at that level of density invites poor bud density lower down on the stalks- and powdery mildew is almost a sure thing. Yes, might work- to some degree- with sativas, but I'd never attempt it with an indica dominant hybrid.
Hey Al was wondering if u had any preference over a white vs black flood tray. Also fytocell isnt availabe at my local hydro shop, any comments on hydroton. thanks
The only benefits I can think of for white trays is being able to readily see any mould, algae or fungi growth on the surfaces and to some degree, reflectivity. If your plants are packed in at an appropriate density, the leaves will be using all the light anyway, so the reflectivity is not a big plus. I think I'd stick with plain old black trays.
If you can't get Fytocell, try perlite in pots with a bit of rockwool floc packed in the bottom of each pot- just enough to keep the perlite bits from faling otu of the pot drain holes.
not organic= unatural = effect on natural world
So, water is 'unnatural'? Water is an inorganic substance.
Let's get clear on our definitions here... 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good.' 'Organic' means a molecule was created as an output from a biological system. Also, 'natural' doesn't mean 'good' or 'good for you.' It means 'occurs in nature.' Bubonic plague is 100% natural. Cyanide is also 100% natural. I don't think you want either one in your breakfast.
Far too many people have been sucked in by the marketing tropes applied to the terms 'natural' and 'organic.' No shit- I have seen bottled water labelled 'organic.' The facepalming was painful. If your water is 'organic' then you kinda have to wonder whose kidneys it was pissed out of.
Few things piss me off more than pseudoscience and marketing bullshit. The co-option of terms like 'natural' and 'organic' to mean 'good' is all that.
'Organic' is not always the best way to go- and hydroponic cannabis growing is most definitely one of those situations. In particular, organic nutrients create all manner of problems in hydroponics. You can't use H2O2 with organic nutes; H2O2 is a highly effective system steriliser that releases oxygen into the rootmass whilst stopping pathogens dead in their tracks. Organic nutes demand use of competing microbes for pathogen control- and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. H2O2 works every single time, when applied regularly. Also, the N, P & K you get from organic nutrients are identical to the N, P & K you get from inorganically sourced nutes- however, organic nutes must break down from their source molecules into the N, P & K that the plants can actually assimilate. The rate of breakdown can be unpredictable. With inorganic nutes, you know what you're getting, every single time. There's simply no comparison to the reliability & predictability you get from inorganic nutes.
If you want to push airy-fairy tree-huggin' hippie crap, there's plenty of places on innumerable cannabis growing boards where you can do that. Don't do it in my threads.
saves me $2/litre over the 5L packaging ($87). Was coincidentally placing an order with my supplier today & will be getting the 20L size. Hoping there is a tap on these jugs to make refilling 5L jugs a bit easier. I usually keep a pair of 5L jugs in the grow room for handy access- but there's no room for 20L jugs in there. Cheers for the suggestion.