Jacks 321 vs Masterblend/Calnit/Epsom salt analysis

2cent said:

This is exactly the same bro its a jacks copy and masterblend copy. O ly masterblend use postassoum chloride whcih u do not want on cannabis this is tomatoe requiremwnt only so mc 2 part is closer bro. Dude was talkin about mc up there google it its identicle as he shows

Man u dont use same all thw way thru chek his charts... In experience people think that.

Their 1 part has somany problems with calnit not being seperate its not even worth mesnioning

If you think u need sme nitrogen in flower man id hate to smoke ur stuff no offence

Google is man mel frank was well off on his npk its beein talked about by loads tissue samples on icmag can confirm this

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whys MC problematic with calnit not being seperate? i ran the balls formula maybe a yr ago and had good results. i just didnt like how dirty it was in hydro so i switched to the 2 part.

i use dynagro and it has calnit with other salts like magsulfate in the same liquid bottle... nothing ever goes wrong. maxibloom has calnit and other salts too in their 1 part powder..... i personally had problems with maxi but i know people on this forum who swear by it.

i know Jacks uses calnit and magnesium nitrate instead of magsulfate in their 1 part to avoid problems.

im just curious

NeWcS said:

Yes, you can argue that plants have different needs at different times. Maybe I should have been more clear. When I said Jacks/Peters I was speaking about 3-2-1 formula.

The point of formulas like 3-2-1(or 3.6-2.4-1.1) LucasMaxi, KISS, Masterblend etc, are you just run the same thing for ALL your plants.

As far as 'quality and quantity', you're wrong!
peace

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I do not argue that plants have different needs at different times. Science does.
Tomato growers and all other professional growers in artificial circumstances use different ratios and other supplements in different stages.
So these formulas like 3-2-1 are perhaps easy to use, but they do not meet the needs of the plants if used in the same ratio in all stages.
Plants need less N for example once they are in bloom.
If you look at your plants and you will give them the right nutes in the right stage, you will have better buds and most of the time more yield.
So I wonder how the right nutes will not lead to more quality and quantity.
But perhaps you can explain why not, as you state.

Keesje said:

I do not argue that plants have different needs at different times. Science does.
Tomato growers and all other professional growers in artificial circumstances use different ratios and other supplements in different stages.
So these formulas like 3-2-1 are perhaps easy to use, but they do not meet the needs of the plants if used in the same ratio in all stages.
Plants need less N for example once they are in bloom.
If you look at your plants and you will give them the right nutes in the right stage, you will have better buds and most of the time more yield.
So I wonder how the right nutes will not lead to more quality and quantity.
But perhaps you can explain why not, as you state.

Click to expand...

What if the plant only takes up exactly what it needs and leaves the rest... lets call this salt buildup. Now lets say you grow in a medium like coco and you provide exactly what the plant needs, same EC from rooted clone all the way to flush, heck even similar ratios in veg and flower, maybe just a slight PK boost mid stretch. Feed at the lowest EC the plant requires to ensure everything it needs is available at all times. Now feed that light EC every 2 hours to flush out what the plant left behind and reset the medium to have everything it needs, allowing the plant to decide how much of each element it wants... lets call this runoff.

2klude said:

What if the plant only takes up exactly what it needs and leaves the rest... lets call this salt buildup. Now lets say you grow in a medium like coco and you provide exactly what the plant needs, same EC from rooted clone all the way to flush, heck even similar ratios in veg and flower, maybe just a slight PK boost mid stretch. Feed at the lowest EC the plant requires to ensure everything it needs is available at all times. Now feed that light EC every 2 hours to flush out what the plant left behind and reset the medium to have everything it needs, allowing the plant to decide how much of each element it wants... lets call this runoff.

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Your basic thought is already wrong. A plant does not 'decide' what it needs. If this was the case, a plant could never be overfed. And we all know that this happens from time to time. In addition, if a plant would only take up what it needs, we could just put all the elements in large quantities in our nutrient solution and let the plant sort it out for itself.

Keesje said:

we could just put all the elements in large quantities in our nutrient solution and let the plant sort it out for itself.

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then how do you explain how a 20-20-20 works just fine?

Because plants can do well on a wide range of different ratio's. In a certain bandwith.
Especially cannabis as it is a weed

But why do you think that Peters and Yara have all these different ranges of nutes?
And why do you think professional growers in greenhouses monitor the ratio's of elements on a daily basis (even every few hours sometimes)? For fun?
Don't you think they rather would mix large amounts of nutes and come back after 2 months and then harvest their tomatoes or whatever?

Keesje said:

In addition, if a plant would only take up what it needs, we could just put all the elements in large quantities in our nutrient solution and let the plant sort it out for itself.

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this was your argument. which didn't answer my question. a 20-20-20 works just fine. the plant sorts it out by itself, right?

I did answer.
If 20-20-20 works well, this means that this ratio is within the bandwith.
But that is not the same that plants just sorts it out by itself. Plants in general uptake what we give them. Sure some elements can block other other elements. But plants 'sorting it out' or 'deciding' is nonsense.

Masterblend uses potassium chrloride and thats good for tomatoes.
But studys show tobacco anf cannabis is screws with them big time if ya cant find it il find the article on it on icmag bill farthings threads.
Defo do not want that on medi C

Keesje said:

I do not argue that plants have different needs at different times. Science does.
Tomato growers and all other professional growers in artificial circumstances use different ratios and other supplements in different stages.
So these formulas like 3-2-1 are perhaps easy to use, but they do not meet the needs of the plants if used in the same ratio in all stages.
Plants need less N for example once they are in bloom.
If you look at your plants and you will give them the right nutes in the right stage, you will have better buds and most of the time more yield.
So I wonder how the right nutes will not lead to more quality and quantity.
But perhaps you can explain why not, as you state.

Click to expand...

I can personally vouch for jacks 321. Never seen a problem with it giving a plant what it needs from start to finish. Seems to work good for a lot of other people too. Kinda weird huh?

Mega crop run by jacks 321scedual looks goood as

Keesje said:

Your basic thought is already wrong. A plant does not 'decide' what it needs. If this was the case, a plant could never be overfed. And we all know that this happens from time to time. In addition, if a plant would only take up what it needs, we could just put all the elements in large quantities in our nutrient solution and let the plant sort it out for itself.

Click to expand...

Your twisting words.... There is a long list of reasons why plants get overfed... way to many variables to consider. Just because a plant "decides" what it requires doesn't mean you can't over feed it. Whatever it leaves behind results in salt buildup, lockouts etc... like I said way to many variables to consider.

All I'm saying is when I feed, I'm trying to get as close to the perfect ratios as I can. Then you feed just the right amount the plant needs to fill all its nutrient requirements. Everything that's left over, which if done correctly shouldn't be much, gets flushed out and reset. I'm speaking from experience, not some article I read online. Maybe I'm not wording it correctly but people growing in soiless mediums, small pots, feeding multiple times daily with a lower EC know exactly what I mean.

Runoff IMO is just a fail safe. It makes being slightly off those ratio work. There are plenty of commercial growers that have their nutrient ratios so dialed in that they don't even water with runoff.

Hollatchaboy said:

I can personally vouch for jacks 321. Never seen a problem with it giving a plant what it needs from start to finish. Seems to work good for a lot of other people too. Kinda weird huh?

Click to expand...

Same with Masterblend! Works fine with its NPK from start to finish. It must fall into the bandwidth mentioned.

The cheapest one delivered to your house is the best

2cent said:

Masterblend uses potassium chrloride and thats good for tomatoes.
But studys show tobacco anf cannabis is screws with them big time if ya cant find it il find the article on it on icmag bill farthings threads.
Defo do not want that on medi C

Click to expand...

I would love to see this study. Do you have a link?

Sorry for copy and paste lol but info has to be shared and think wr all agree my ryping too godlike to be seen in that mich text haha

Just google "potassium chloride tobacco" and click on the first result.

"Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco"

Chlorine is very detrimental for the smoke quality of tobacco, especially aroma and taste - it promotes the green grass/hay smell we all know and love.
The strain specific aroma and taste disappear.
Burning quality is lower and the ash shows black color.




Quote:


While Masterblend has formulas especially for hydroponic and soilless growing, they don't promote the formula you speak of for it.
It's made for tomatoes, where chlorine indeed is benefical.

Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco" by Hiroshi Ishizaki and Tatsushki Akiya.

I could have just put a link into my post, but this is a forum - maybe some people will read this posts years later and all links will be dead by then.
But if you have the name of a specific paper, you can still google it.

There's a reason that a lot of fertilizer formulas explicitly state "chlorine free" or "low chlorine content".
While chlorine is beneficial for some crops, it's kind of devastating to others - for example crops, where the plant tissue gets burned.

People try to avoid chlorine in tobacco since the nineteenth century, and the principles of the matter are the same as with cannabis.
As soon as you have a certain amount of Cl- anions in your plant tissue, you have fucked up your quality.
And cannabis is a great accumulator, much more than tobacco.

But, besides tobacco, these negative effects can be seen on a lot more crops.
There is a negative correlation of shelf life, nutritional value, taste (etc) to a rising chlorine content.

You can give your plants all the chlorine you want, I just feel sorry for people who take such advice.
Because it can make them smoke schwag for months.

/Edit:
Thinking that biochemical processes don't apply to you because you're selling your bud is... a very special point of view.

The shitty bud in dispensaries has to come from somewhere too, I guess.

2cent said:

Sorry for copy and paste lol but info has to be shared and think wr all agree my ryping too godlike to be seen in that mich text haha

Just google "potassium chloride tobacco" and click on the first result.

"Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco"

Chlorine is very detrimental for the smoke quality of tobacco, especially aroma and taste - it promotes the green grass/hay smell we all know and love.
The strain specific aroma and taste disappear.
Burning quality is lower and the ash shows black color.




Quote:

Originally Posted by BillFarthing MB has already done all the work for you with a balanced hydroponic fertilizer. Don't overthink it.

While Masterblend has formulas especially for hydroponic and soilless growing, they don't promote the formula you speak of for it.


It's made for tomatoes, where chlorine indeed is benefical.

Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco" by Hiroshi Ishizaki and Tatsushki Akiya.

I could have just put a link into my post, but this is a forum - maybe some people will read this posts years later and all links will be dead by then.
But if you have the name of a specific paper, you can still google it.

There's a reason that a lot of fertilizer formulas explicitly state "chlorine free" or "low chlorine content".
While chlorine is beneficial for some crops, it's kind of devastating to others - for example crops, where the plant tissue gets burned.

People try to avoid chlorine in tobacco since the nineteenth century, and the principles of the matter are the same as with cannabis.
As soon as you have a certain amount of Cl- anions in your plant tissue, you have fucked up your quality.
And cannabis is a great accumulator, much more than tobacco.

But, besides tobacco, these negative effects can be seen on a lot more crops.
There is a negative correlation of shelf life, nutritional value, taste (etc) to a rising chlorine content.

You can give your plants all the chlorine you want, I just feel sorry for people who take such advice.
Because it can make them smoke schwag for months.

/Edit:
Thinking that biochemical processes don't apply to you because you're selling your bud is... a very special point of view.

The shitty bud in dispensaries has to come from somewhere too, I guess.

Click to expand...

Good read. Looks like I need to do some more research before I reup

Shit man, Well I was looking for an excuse to try Jackies. Guess I have a good one now.

2cent said:

Mega crop run by jacks 321scedual looks goood as

Click to expand...

Tobacco is sensitive to chlorine

2cent said:

Sorry for copy and paste lol but info has to be shared and think wr all agree my ryping too godlike to be seen in that mich text haha

Just google "potassium chloride tobacco" and click on the first result.

"Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco"

Chlorine is very detrimental for the smoke quality of tobacco, especially aroma and taste - it promotes the green grass/hay smell we all know and love.
The strain specific aroma and taste disappear.
Burning quality is lower and the ash shows black color.




Quote:

Originally Posted by BillFarthing MB has already done all the work for you with a balanced hydroponic fertilizer. Don't overthink it.

While Masterblend has formulas especially for hydroponic and soilless growing, they don't promote the formula you speak of for it.

It's made for tomatoes, where chlorine indeed is benefical.

Effects of Chlorine on Growth and Quality of Tobacco" by Hiroshi Ishizaki and Tatsushki Akiya.

I could have just put a link into my post, but this is a forum - maybe some people will read this posts years later and all links will be dead by then.
But if you have the name of a specific paper, you can still google it.

There's a reason that a lot of fertilizer formulas explicitly state "chlorine free" or "low chlorine content".
While chlorine is beneficial for some crops, it's kind of devastating to others - for example crops, where the plant tissue gets burned.

People try to avoid chlorine in tobacco since the nineteenth century, and the principles of the matter are the same as with cannabis.
As soon as you have a certain amount of Cl- anions in your plant tissue, you have fucked up your quality.
And cannabis is a great accumulator, much more than tobacco.

But, besides tobacco, these negative effects can be seen on a lot more crops.
There is a negative correlation of shelf life, nutritional value, taste (etc) to a rising chlorine content.

You can give your plants all the chlorine you want, I just feel sorry for people who take such advice.
Because it can make them smoke schwag for months.

/Edit:
Thinking that biochemical processes don't apply to you because you're selling your bud is... a very special point of view.

The shitty bud in dispensaries has to come from somewhere too, I guess.

Click to expand...

Tobacco and cannabis are two different plants. You can't take a study on tobacco and apply it to cannabis because both are smoked. One of the reasons that chloride based fertilizers are not good for tobacco is because the actual plant is sensitive to it. When tobacco has too much chloride the plants can become unhealthy leading to a poor quality end product. Cannabis is not as sensitive to chlorides as proven by the fact that it can be watered with chlorine containing tap water and grow just fine. In fact, many growers add chlorides to their reservoirs in hydro to keep things sterile with no ill effects.

There are many name brand and popular cannabis nutrient companies that have potassium chloride in their formulas. It might not be listed as such but muriate of potash is the same thing. Come back with a study on cannabis not tobacco.

NeWcS said:

Heres some notes I have. Hope it helps:

Silica​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	148g (Potassium Silicate) to liter water makes a 7.8% concentration.​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	2.5mL of concentration per gallon gives a Si ppm of 23ppm. (and 24.5ppm of K)(~48ppm SiO2)​	​	​	​	​	​	​

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Sweet love it. Ill throw this out there i do like the way silicon dioxide plays in the mix better than potassium silicate. Hope All is well in your garden!!!

There is alot online showinf it and cannabis this was the argument start for the big bous as i said.
Simpley googling can find somany bad bits from it on cannabis too cannabis isnt so diffetent to tobacco in that it reacts the same to certain npk elements.

Zamnesia

Muriate of potash (potassium chloride): This is widely available and makes a good natural source of potassium. However, the chlorine in it harms soil microorganisms, which makes it less suited for organic growing. Sulphate of potash (potassium sulphate): More suitable for organic growing than muriate of potash as it doesn’t contain chlorine

potassium sulfate and epsoms to boost sulfur, there seems to be some research that the terpene family is somehow related to sulfur.


Mastwrblend features a tomatoe on the bag i use it for my tom nft amazing.
Mega has a cannabis leaf and sulpurs i know which id want


Chloride can compete with nitrate, phosphate and sulfate uptake and max 2ppm is needed which is naturaly found in all waters almost.

Isnt needed stall so i know wich element is more productive and less ability to effect other nutrient elements in the npk