JB's New Growroom with Graphics

JSB99 said:

I've blown my budget on so many projects

I'm sure I'll go over all this because there are so many small items (screws, hooks, brackets, etc...) that I haven't listed on my price sheet. But all of the major things are online and when I get ready to start buying stuff, I'll research the best prices one last time. It will have been 6 months or longer between when I was looking up prices and when I actually buy them. So heatsinks, COBs, and other things very well may have dropped in price over that time.

I'm going to search for the right method of calculating energy costs with this room. Not that it would discourage me from building it or anything. Its just out of curiosity. I'm guessing an average of around $50 - $60 increase each month to run this tiny beast.

The more things I can buy on Amazon the better. I've got Prime and I get free 2-day shipping on everything! Of course, most places offer free shipping anyways.

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I've blown my budget so hard there's dollar bills all over the floor when I'm done.

Funny how it all seems to come back, though.

Why worry about calculations . Why not just get a CT(current transformer) with small lcd. And have the CT coil around your main feed to this room. That way you can monitor current draw, works particularly well if you plan to "dim" your light, using a potentiometer. You can monitor how much current draw there is while set to lowest setting of the potentiometer then to the highest setting, and everything in between.

ttystikk said:

I've blown my budget so hard there's dollar bills all over the floor when I'm done.

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That's what happens when you're blowing money (LOL)

OrganicCanuck said:

Why worry about calculations . Why not just get a CT(current transformer) with small lcd. And have the CT coil around your main feed to this room. That way you can monitor current draw, works particularly well if you plan to "dim" your light, using a potentiometer. You can monitor how much current draw there is while set to lowest setting of the potentiometer then to the highest setting, and everything in between.

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Good idea, but I'm not all that concerned with it. I'll figure it out when I get my bill. My main goal was to make sure I had all the power I needed without going above 80% of the breaker's capacity. Looks like everything's good, so I'm happy

Flood Examples:

I wanted to make sure that my pond liner and frame were adequate enough to handle the 90 gallon capacity of the RDWC. I also wanted to get a visual of what it would look like in the worst case scenario.

According to my calculations, I'll have plenty of room available in my flood tray (pond liner). So much room that I've decided not to put a drain in the floor. What I'll be doing is running a 3/4" drain port through the wood window covering. I won't go into the specifics yet. I'm going to add a valve and pipe to the water pump that will sit just above the floor. The pump will act like a sump pump.

I was thinking about adding foam insulation panels between the green pipes and the back of the chiller, and between the reservoir and the chiller.

The heat transfer created by the chiller cooling the water is going to create a little heat pocket there. With the moving liquid, it may not make any difference. It takes 4 times the time and energy to heat and cool water than it does air.

What do y'all think? Should I create a little insulation barrier between the chiller and the water?

I love the .."toe rail." Extra reassurance, "if something can go wrong, it will go wrong" usually how it works with me. And If your whole res unloaded it wouldn't be so much trouble and/or damage to worry about, just great!..... If that were ever to happen, you could just pop in a few fish and turn your whole system into one of those aquaponic systems, you feed the fish, fish feed the plants .

Also i looked back at all your examples, it looks like you have 2 blowers, one intake and one exhaust. And on the exhaust you have 2 "can" style scrubbers, and one mushroom filter on the intake. Have you ran a system like that before? I assume you will be supplementing Co2? Those scrubbers, even one tiny one would be sufficient for your size set up, but bigger definitely assures that, and its better at removing heat. I'v never seen 2 filters on one blower that is why i ask, seems like it could put stress on that blower. And the intake blower, you decided on this.. i assume to bring in air without letting in light? I am just curious is all, you obviously know your location better than anyone else, every space has different needs.

OrganicCanuck said:

Also i looked back at all your examples, it looks like you have 2 blowers, one intake and one exhaust. And on the exhaust you have 2 "can" style scrubbers, and one mushroom filter on the intake. Have you ran a system like that before? I assume you will be supplementing Co2? Those scrubbers, even one tiny one would be sufficient for your size set up, but bigger definitely assures that, and its better at removing heat. I'v never seen 2 filters on one blower that is why i ask, seems like it could put stress on that blower. And the intake blower, you decided on this.. i assume to bring in air without letting in light? I am just curious is all, you obviously know your location better than anyone else, every space has different needs.

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The second scrubber, post-exhaust, is actually a muffler for sound suppression. Here's an EXAMPLE

Yes, I have set up systems like this before. Both the exhaust and intake fans will be on speed controllers. The intake fan controller will be plugged into the exhaust fan controller and set to 75% (or whatever it takes to achieve a slight negative pressure in the tent). Whatever I set the exhaust fan to, the intake fan will only ever be a percentage of that.

Running two fans allows you to run them both at slower speeds, which should help reduce the noise a little more.

I've decided to go with the Vortex S-Line fans. The CFM is a bit lower at 375, compared to the 440 CFM I was originally getting. However, I doubt I will even use 375 CFM with two fans, COB LEDs, externally mounted drivers, and a well controlled environment (tent in an independently air conditioned room, within a house with central AC).

Vortex Fan

The Vortex doesn't suppress sound like they're advertising, but every little thing counts. I'll also be using insulated flexible ducting and I'll be surrounding the fans in sound reduction boxes I'll build with acoustic foam pads. The fans will also be suspended by bungee cords preventing vibrations through the studs. In the next release of renderings I'll be showing how I plan on suspending the intake fan.

I appreciate the advice. Keep it coming. I've done tons of research and know some things from past builds, but you never know when you're going to miss something.

OrganicCanuck said:

I assume you will be supplementing Co2?

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Yes, but that's going to be a little down the road. We'll say that'll be done in Phase 2

Some of the reasons for the active over passive:

• Help prevent tent frame from flexing due to too much negative pressure and not enough open ports, when running fast
• The fans will run slower with less load, so they should last longer and may be quieter, even with two
• Sealed environment for pest control
• Filtered environment so dust and other micro-crap doesn't get sucked into the tent all day
• Light control
• And yes, someday co2 injection

That answered my question well, of course it's a muffler... that was my second guess. Actually i didn't even know mufflers were available, probably not anywhere close to me, and in good ol' Canada, a heavy unit like that would cost more in shipping than anything. Even common Amazon items are unavailable to Canadians, and i swear i have seen ads for things that are listed @ $3.99, but shipping is $199.00. Really, how does amazon allow this, well i guess if your dumb enough to accept the sale......

Have you ever seen those Secret Jardin grow... "tent?" its not really a tent but like made from sheet metal, steel frame. Comes in same standard sizes. I have not physically touched or seen one, but the idea looks cool, all solid. Maybe its Canadian, Jardin sounds French.

You need a disclaimer on those photos, they are way to realistic. I thought you ran acrylic pipe and custom bent it. I should've known, it was too clean. I love the thought going into it, don't see that much around here most of the time.... I geek out on this stuff to much as well.

When I designed my room I went as deep as figuring out flow rates and restriction through the furnace filters I use on my room intake to calculate the proper passive intake size to just maintain a negative pressure@50% fan speed. I wanted to install a manometer to monitor room pressure, it could be an indicator to replace filters, or of a dying fan. 2 walls of the flower room are built as light traps with voids that were sized based on my fans max cfm. Air enters through filters, through light trap wall at floor level on flower side, goes out up high, through another light trap wall, exits veg side at floor level, goes out through fan/ filter up high into. Most of my electrical is run above 4', all my water is run below 4', for the safety issues you mentioned. The containment floor is a great idea, I did 2x6 border, with vinyl flooring up to the top, and caulked the corners.

One tip, I noticed it looked like you had the exhaust on the bottom. Put it up high, and your intake down low. It'll draw cooler, dry air in across the buckets, keeping them cooler, and then up through the canopy, which helps with humidity control in flowering.

JSB99 said:

A setup that you've already got built, or a future grow?

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ttystikk said:

Mine! The one I already have, and who knows? Maybe future upgrades too?

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People pay good money for grow room design, with your graphics skills and financial breakdowns, you could make a killing. Find a good GC and team up.

I saw a comment about liquid cooling leds. Why not, computers are liquid cooled. Run soldered copper tubing on the circuits the same way. Have braided SS line running from those to the chiller if you're really concerned.

OrganicCanuck said:

That answered my question well, of course it's a muffler... that was my second guess. Actually i didn't even know mufflers were available, probably not anywhere close to me, and in good ol' Canada, a heavy unit like that would cost more in shipping than anything. Even common Amazon items are unavailable to Canadians, and i swear i have seen ads for things that are listed @ $3.99, but shipping is $199.00. Really, how does amazon allow this, well i guess if your dumb enough to accept the sale......

Have you ever seen those Secret Jardin grow... "tent?" its not really a tent but like made from sheet metal, steel frame. Comes in same standard sizes. I have not physically touched or seen one, but the idea looks cool, all solid. Maybe its Canadian, Jardin sounds French.

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I could've sworn the Secret Jardin's were fabric like most other tents. Are you sure they're metal? Do me a favor and post a link so I can check it out. I'm very curious about this.

I don't think mufflers are all that common even though they are readily available. But this is something you can easily build yourself. I would imagine there are DIY threads on mufflers, but if not, just follow a DIY carbon scrubber thread for the frame of it. Instead of using carbon in the middle, get a 1" or 2" thick foam (like for a mattress topper) and roll it up inside. Don't expect miracles with a muffler, though it does help. If you use a muffler along with insulated flexible duct and a few other tricks, you can greatly decrease the noise. Then instead of using a duct cap at the other end, use a flange like the one used on the front. One of the individual methods, by itself, won't do all that much. But with a few of them together, it can make a drastic difference.

In the renderings I show flexible aluminum duct hose, but that's only because it looked cooler in the pics. The white just kind of washed out when I tried it.

That sucks about the cost of shipping to Canada! My vaporizer is made by a Canadian company (Arizer), When I order replacement attachments the shipping is usually asd much, if not more, than the part itself. It's not like Canada's an ocean away or anything! Someone's pockets are getting lined with gold I bet (LOL).

WeedFreak78 said:

You need a disclaimer on those photos, they are way to realistic. I thought you ran acrylic pipe and custom bent it. I should've known, it was too clean. I love the thought going into it, don't see that much around here most of the time.... I geek out on this stuff to much as well.

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LOL, thanks! Working in 3D you can make things look realistic, or even beyond realistic I really don't think I would have sat here and designed it all in 3D if I had the money on-hand. I have to wait until at least February for some funds to come in, so I'm forced to wait. But if something happens and I don't get the money, at least I can see it brought to life this way. And if it helps noobs who need visuals, then I'm glad I could help.

WeedFreak78 said:

When I designed my room I went as deep as figuring out flow rates and restriction through the furnace filters I use on my room intake to calculate the proper passive intake size to just maintain a negative pressure@50% fan speed. I wanted to install a manometer to monitor room pressure, it could be an indicator to replace filters, or of a dying fan. 2 walls of the flower room are built as light traps with voids that were sized based on my fans max cfm. Air enters through filters, through light trap wall at floor level on flower side, goes out up high, through another light trap wall, exits veg side at floor level, goes out through fan/ filter up high into. Most of my electrical is run above 4', all my water is run below 4', for the safety issues you mentioned. The containment floor is a great idea, I did 2x6 border, with vinyl flooring up to the top, and caulked the corners.

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Something that has helped by using CAD with this project has been the ability to show, in great detail, a complex idea such as the one you described above.

WeedFreak78 said:

One tip, I noticed it looked like you had the exhaust on the bottom. Put it up high, and your intake down low. It'll draw cooler, dry air in across the buckets, keeping them cooler, and then up through the canopy, which helps with humidity control in flowering.

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I need to put labels on some more equipment to clear up some confusion. The tent will have an active intake, which is what the fan/mushroom filter to the lower-left of the tent. The exhaust system is up above. It goes Scrubber->Fan->Muffler.

But thanks for keeping an eye out. I definitely incorporate good advice into my design, so I appreciate all the eyes on this

WeedFreak78 said:

People pay good money for grow room design, with your graphics skills and financial breakdowns, you could make a killing. Find a good GC and team up.

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It's a good idea, and one I've thought about. I deal with a lot of chronic pain and Fibromyalgia. It suppresses my energy quite a bit. I won't go looking for a client, but if someone here has a larger project, with several sites and rooms for perpetual growing on a distribution level, then I would certainly consider it. Especially if it makes me the money I need for my own grow

WeedFreak78 said:

I saw a comment about liquid cooling leds. Why not, computers are liquid cooled. Run soldered copper tubing on the circuits the same way. Have braided SS line running from those to the chiller if you're really concerned.

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Yeah, I saw that too! Really cool setup (no pun intended)! In the pic/vid I saw, it looked like he had a radiator or heat exchanger sitting on the COB frame. I could see having that outside the tent. But inside, it'd remove the heat directly from the COBs but retain that heat in the tent. Maybe I wasn't clear on that part. Maybe he'll chime in and go over it a little.

JSB99 said:

LOL, thanks! Working in 3D you can make things look realistic, or even beyond realistic I really don't think I would have sat here and designed it all in 3D if I had the money on-hand. I have to wait until at least February for some funds to come in, so I'm forced to wait. But if something happens and I don't get the money, at least I can see it brought to life this way. And if it helps noobs who need visuals, then I'm glad I could help.

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I used to use Solidworks at my last job as a machinist, that was sweet. I would design and machine something for myself and get paid for it.. lol . Idk how easily I could pick it up again, it's been a few years.

JSB99 said:

Something that has helped by using CAD with this project has been the ability to show, in great detail, a complex idea such as the one you described above.

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I do everything on paper with pencil still, lol. Half of it is unintelligible to anyone but me. I'm looking at a pile of at least a dozen, better than half filled, pages of notes, parts lists, measurements, floor plans and random drawings of the room I'm currently planning. A few times I've come close to scribbling a drawing to explain something to someone on here, snapping a pic and posting it. But I hate dealing with photobucket, so it never happens.

This thread just captured me for about 3 hours! Very impressive and looking forward to following along.

I really wish I had your SketchUp skills, I'm planning my first room (also first grow) using the tool right now. I have a CS background so I can use the tool but the engineering part is lost on me. I really enjoy the design phase, though, and would totally do this for others if I was skilled enough. On to the youtube tutorials, I guess! I'm also waiting for the funds because I'll be building a space that will hopefully be permanent as well so the design will keep me from clicking 'Buy now.'

I love the look and usefulness of the 80/20 stuff and would love to build my own lights off GrowMau5's designs and teachings but I'm in Canada so getting parts feels like it's impossible. And, if it's not impossible, it is twice as much haha.

Keep up the great work! You've almost convinced this noob to go from soil to hydro! haha

JSB99 said:

I could've sworn the Secret Jardin's were fabric like most other tents. Are you sure they're metal? Do me a favor and post a link so I can check it out. I'm very curious about this.


That sucks about the cost of shipping to Canada! My vaporizer is made by a Canadian company (Arizer), When I order replacement attachments the shipping is usually asd much, if not more, than the part itself. It's not like Canada's an ocean away or anything! Someone's pockets are getting lined with gold I bet (LOL).

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Hmm, like i said i never actually seen the tents in person, so you are probably right. I thought for sure it looked like solid construction.


Yep the best vaporizer, i actually met the owner he used to sell the units him self in the Greater Toronto Area, would deliver it right to your house. I think this was before it was all CSA approved and on the actual market. He would charge i think like 80$ at the time, came with the remote, bag kit, whip kit, and the "aroma diffuser". This is going back 2004 i believe i bought the unit, still fully operational. The only issue is constantly breaking the whip elbow. Always my mistake though, knocking off table or getting up off the couch with the whip still in hand and you probably know what happens after that lol.

72camaross said:

This thread just captured me for about 3 hours! Very impressive and looking forward to following along.

I really wish I had your SketchUp skills, I'm planning my first room (also first grow) using the tool right now. I have a CS background so I can use the tool but the engineering part is lost on me. I really enjoy the design phase, though, and would totally do this for others if I was skilled enough. On to the youtube tutorials, I guess! I'm also waiting for the funds because I'll be building a space that will hopefully be permanent as well so the design will keep me from clicking 'Buy now.'

I love the look and usefulness of the 80/20 stuff and would love to build my own lights off GrowMau5's designs and teachings but I'm in Canada so getting parts feels like it's impossible. And, if it's not impossible, it is twice as much haha.

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Hey, thanks! I appreciate that

Getting started with 3D was pretty tricky. But after I got past some of the basic stuff I found that I was able to concentrate more on the design than learning. I think I'm going to find other things to do in SU after this.

72camaross said:

Keep up the great work! You've almost convinced this noob to go from soil to hydro!

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I know, it's hard to resist! Its a lot of fun getting to see the system in motion, growing your plants. Soil is boring lol. But it can be a little (or lot) more time consuming and it's really touchy. You have to stay on top of it. I'm trying to design mine to be as maintenance free as possible with a hydro setup. I love tinkering with stuff, but I don't want to become a slave to it.

There are a lot of things you can build yourself, or cut corners, to save money. But if you want a very reliable system, you're going to have to pony-up and pay for some of the things that are specially suited for that kind of system. I always made my own bulkheads and used round buckets. But I know if I want reliability I need to use real bulkheads (not Uniseals) and square buckets (which cost more). If you're trying to build a Ferrari, putting Hyundai tires on it is going to cause some problems. So I'll spend the extra money so that I don't have to worry about leaks.

I know a lot of people have built great, proven components on their own. I have too. But I know which areas I had problems with that I'll eliminate by getting proven parts. When it comes to water, you wouldn't believe how persistent water is at getting out through the smallest places.

I keep writing these book-long posts as I'm working on a balloon LOL. Man, I can ramble on....

I also read you were going to use titan controls, timer or what have you. Did you already buy that? i have read they can be quite unreliable. I have had nothing but issue trying to automate my set up using similar digital products. I am currently working on a fully "arduino" controlled system, but its turning out to be complicated, writing program that is very specific to my needs and wants. I thought it would be cheaper to DIY, probably not, but its learning experience. In hind sight i should of just bought something for these guys.

https://www.controlanything.com/Relay/Relay/TARALIST_RELAY

Not all that expensive and everything is easy to set up, while still having total customization. Would work well with your setup, and really put the icing on the cake. There is still DIY work with this route as well, mounting the board in enclosure, adding receptacles, sensors what ever you want. : )