Kushberry in SS#4 with Dyna-Gro: Smart Pots vs. Old Fashioned Plastic

My last grow was similar to the first in that I made a bunch of mistakes and learned a ton about this plant as a result. It was dissimilar in the sense that popping my own seeds in round two led to finding an extra frosty Kushberry pheno, one that I'll be growing six (or seven) plants for this, my third grow cycle.

These cuttings were taken on New Year's and put into a 2:1 Roots Organics and perlite on January 14th. They'd only gotten tap water in the 40ppm range along with 1mL Roots Excelurator set to 6.4-6.6 pH.



'Life' got in the way of these getting the kind of attention I would have liked, but they seem healthy after two weeks in the soil spent mostly under T5s, and the last several days under a 600w MH. The reflector's been at various heights in an attempt to combat some of the leaf curling (they also stretched a bit ) you see from heat stress. I finally got the materials necessary for a proper exhaust and now the numbers are right around 75deg and 50% rh.



These six were transplanted into 5 gallon containers (three each hard plastic and Smart Pots) of 2:1 Sunshine Mix #4 and perlite combo plus 1c/cu ft of dolomite lime on February 2nd. They were 'supposed' to get 1.25mL ProTekt, 2.5mL Dyna-Gro Grow and 1mL Roots Excelurator, but I severely underestimated this mix' water retention capacity. After the first plant it was clear I wouldn't have enough dechlorinated water to make enough nutes, I began to use the 'plain' (just RE) water to get up to a small runoff. A couple ended up getting more of this 'plain' solution than the nutes, but it was about 50/50 all around. Each plant got about three quarts and all of that will be a nutrient solution next time.



The roots were sufficiently robust when I transplanted these that I believe they should have been done earlier. I also wanted to top them earlier, but wanted to wait a couple days before adding more stress. I cut each one down to 6 nodes (7 in the cases where the bottom one is puny) and might top again to get these really bushy before they go under a 1000w HPS for flower. I'm probably going to put a relatively young clone right in the middle too so that the canopy has a shape that maximizes the footprint, as well as a bit of a comparison between the two styles' outputs.

That is what it is all about, making mistakes, learning from them and moving on! Subbed and can't wait to see the difference between the smart pots and plastic.

Veg day 25, 3 days after topping

(*my 'days' are 7.30p-1.30p, so I'm considering these photos from the 25th day after the clones were put in soil, though they were actually snapped a few minutes before midnight on Monday. This'll be the new standard moving forward, with each 'day' starting at 7.30p and extending into the next calendar day.)

Here's a quick post-topping photo update:



I'm going to (arbitrarily) label these because I can't really tell which ones are which from one set of images to the next thanks to rotating the camera.



In any case, they've all shown some good growth in the two days since topping, but the tops do look a bit pale to me. Is it possible they're already a tiny bit hungry because of the effectively halved dose of nutes they got when transplanted?

infrared said:

My last grow was similar to the first in that I made a bunch of mistakes and learned a ton about this plant as a result. It was dissimilar in the sense that popping my own seeds in round two led to finding an extra frosty Kushberry pheno, one that I'll be growing six (or seven) plants for this, my third grow cycle.

These cuttings were taken on New Year's and put into a 2:1 Roots Organics and perlite on January 14th. They'd only gotten tap water in the 40ppm range along with 1mL Roots Excelurator set to 6.4-6.6 pH.

View attachment 2039886View attachment 2039890View attachment 2039887

'Life' got in the way of these getting the kind of attention I would have liked, but they seem healthy after two weeks in the soil spent mostly under T5s, and the last several days under a 600w MH. The reflector's been at various heights in an attempt to combat some of the leaf curling (they also stretched a bit ) you see from heat stress. I finally got the materials necessary for a proper exhaust and now the numbers are right around 75deg and 50% rh.

View attachment 2039891View attachment 2039892View attachment 2039894

These six were transplanted into 5 gallon containers (three each hard plastic and Smart Pots) of 2:1 Sunshine Mix #4 and perlite combo plus 1c/cu ft of dolomite lime on February 2nd. They were 'supposed' to get 1.25mL ProTekt, 2.5mL Dyna-Gro Grow and 1mL Roots Excelurator, but I severely underestimated this mix' water retention capacity. After the first plant it was clear I wouldn't have enough dechlorinated water to make enough nutes, I began to use the 'plain' (just RE) water to get up to a small runoff. A couple ended up getting more of this 'plain' solution than the nutes, but it was about 50/50 all around. Each plant got about three quarts and all of that will be a nutrient solution next time.

View attachment 2039896View attachment 2039898

The roots were sufficiently robust when I transplanted these that I believe they should have been done earlier. I also wanted to top them earlier, but wanted to wait a couple days before adding more stress. I cut each one down to 6 nodes (7 in the cases where the bottom one is puny) and might top again to get these really bushy before they go under a 1000w HPS for flower. I'm probably going to put a relatively young clone right in the middle too so that the canopy has a shape that maximizes the footprint, as well as a bit of a comparison between the two styles' outputs.

Click to expand...

Is that the one that smells and taste like lemon/fuel?

I have been growing the KB and have loved every minute of it. I am working with two phenos. One is what I concider the OG dominant pheno. It has about 50% sativa in it, strong lemon/fuel smell and taste and it's the frostiest strain I have ever worked with. In my experience, this pheno is difficult to grow and clone. I keep it around because of how high the quality of the nugs are.

The other pheno smells and taste like berries/kush. This one is almost all indica and has a high amount of CBD. I won't smoke this before 7:00pm because after, I am not able to function. It glues me to the couch and I can easily pass out an hour later, if I don't keep smoking it. It has great medical qualities. It also grows very well and is easy to clone making it a good commercial choice.

Both of my phenos stretch WAY MORE than yours are.... I give rooted clones zero veg and they are 18" tall by the end of the second week. At first it was hard to work the KB into my SOG because of how tall they wanted to get. What I started doing was let them grow for the first two weeks and then top them. Once I do, all the side branches start to catch up with the main top. Since it stretches so much, I am able to tie all the branches close together without bunching up the buds and leaves. This gives me a good size plant with a small footprint that works well in my SOG. I use the stretch to my advantage.

Goldowitz said:

Is that the one that smells and taste like lemon/fuel?

Click to expand...

Five of the six fem seeds I germinated last fall had what it took to survive. The only variation I saw was because I mislabeled one. In other words, they were sufficiently uniform that I was for the first time in my short growing career able to simply look and see "Oh, this isn't actually Kushberry." They're all on the indica end of the spectrum, but this mother was quite a bit more resinous than its peers.

I was frightened by the stretch on these at first because I overcrowded last time and that was one of my biggest areas for improvement from last cycle. It seems to be under control now and the new nodes are much closer together, so if anything, it's looking like some of my pruning of the bottom 'larfy' area has basically been done for me. So yes, hopefully using the stretch here to my advantage.


It looks like the three in Smart Pots will need water tomorrow.
I'd love to get feedback from people using soil/less mixes in Smart Pots:
Does soil in Smart Pots drying out faster, and thus getting more waterings, mean these need less PPM each time? Or is the opposite true, and watering these plants the same recipe, more often, will make them bigger/better?

Into 10 gallons of .2EC tap water that'd 'breathed' out chlorine for several days:
12.5mL Roots Excelurator
12.5mL ProTekt
25mL Grow

Somehow, this recipe produced a perfect 6.47pH. EC was around .725

I labeled the plants 1-6 ('6' is unlabeled) from biggest to smallest, and the first five were fed with just over a gallon of the above. I'll probably be getting a drip feeding system soon so this time around will be even easier.

I snapped shots of each plant before watering, so let's take a look at the newly standardized group:



Here's number 1 pictured below. After seeing how high its tallest branch had grown, I supercropped it. Judging by how fast it has already bent back upward in addition to the results from bending during last flower, this plant seems to react favorably. I checked on the garden today just a few minutes ago and repeated bending the top branch down on two more plants.



Here's number 2. I'll be bending this one soon.



Plant number 3. Like all the rest, their stretching has subsided and the new growth is putting out nodes at suitably compressed intervals. I bent the tallest branch down today.



Number 4. This one also got bent today (obv not pictured). The leaf in the lower-left corner might be this round's most obvious example of the thrips damage now apparent on most of the plants in my veg room (gee, thanks, Aurora Innovations!) I've been pleased with how my clones do in Roots Organics, but it seems to take quite a bit of neem spraying to get the accompanying pests out of my picture.



Here comes plant number 5.



And (the unlabeled) number 6 completes our current group. The first picture shows a soil so moist it almost looks like these got watered. I'm now curious if it'll even need to be watered before the others get another drink. In any case, this plant is showing the same kind of densely-packed nodes on the new growth, so I'll continue to bend a bit more, working these plants up to 18-20" bushes before the flip.

hey nice grow man
im just gettin started too, been reading alot
doesnt purple stems mean some kind of problem?

gl bro

substitution said:

hey nice grow man
im just gettin started too, been reading alot
doesnt purple stems mean some kind of problem?

gl bro

Click to expand...

Some strains have purple stems/streaking, but I tend to believe these might be a sign that I could do something better.

Any experienced growers out there got ideas on fixing the few purple stems in the images above?

I can't see the pictures right now
But I had some pretty severe purpling of the stems on my plants. I had been cutting back on the feed and ignoring the purple stems. Then I realized all my lower leaves were yellowing and falling off, so i bumped the feed back up and the stems are less purple now. I think a few streaks is ok, but when it get's really purple your on the verge of deficiency. I'm not sure which Macro nutrient it is

Can be Magnesium def... Or cold temps can cause purpling in prone phenos. Of ourse there's always variables, but try a little cal-mag and make sure the ph is in a decent range.

Those are some pretty ladies you have on your hands. Subbed for the duration!

Plant 6 finally needed watering today, as did each of the Smart Pot'd trio. The Smart Pots used about 1.333 gals each, with the plastic pot running off at about 25% less (1gal). So not only did the Smart Pots get watered more recently, but they also absorb more water with less runoff. (*This further suggests fabric containers need lower PPMs compared to their hard-sided peers, but my research continues to find examples of this documented in journals and elsewhere online.)

In response to the purple petioles, I used the more traditionally-balanced Foliage Pro instead of Grow this time around, still at 2.5mL/gal. FP's 'total' NPK is lower than Grow, but it's more nutritionally dense overall, this mixture producing a .84 EC as compared to a similar concoction with Grow at .725. Needed 2mL pH Down to get to 6.56.

Let's take a look at the group:



That ratty old towel at the bottom there = me growing tired of cleaning runoff water. Might be time to invest in a tray.

Now we'll examine each plant individually, including shots depicting how each one has been bent (all but the #6 runt):

Plant 1



Plant 2



Plant 3



Plant 4



Plant 5



Plant 6




As you can see, with the bending, I've been able to get the canopy pretty nicely packed with tops, all while evening out the height to within about an inch or so. Now that the conditions are just right in there, the new internodal spacing is quite a bit tighter than their first few days in this room. 'Bending away' some of the stretch also allowed me to more or less create a ring around the perimeter of each pot for a beautiful bouquet of branches that I can't wait to see reaching up even higher in my next post!

Cheebaca said:

Those are some pretty ladies you have on your hands. Subbed for the duration!

Click to expand...

Thanks, good to have ya

Could it also be the case that the smart pots allow more evaporation of water because of the porous material used?

albsure said:

Could it also be the case that the smart pots allow more evaporation of water because of the porous material used?

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right.
Smart Pots 'drink' more because of the increased evaporation caused by a porous material, as well as the increased root mass as encouraged by a fabric container's root pruning advantages. Which one accounts for more is a mystery, and it might turn out that it's a wash, i.e., the 'extra' amount uptaken by the roots is offset by water wicked away and evaporated because of the material.

In either case, my Smart Pots just took 33% more water than a hard plastic container and spilled less runoff. This suggests that the fabric is absorbing quite a bit, and also possibly helping to evenly moisten the root zone by acting as a wick.

Now, this leads me to my inquiry:
Because nutrient solution passing through a Smart Pot when compared to a hard plastic container (both more frequently and with each watering), does this increased amount of chemical salt passing through the soil(less mix) mean that a lower PPM is optimal for fabric pots? A big part of this grow is inspired by homebrewer and his 'less is more' approach, so I want to be able to find that perfect amount of nutrients and that might turn out to be different depending on the container.

infrared said:

You're absolutely right.
Smart Pots 'drink' more because of the increased evaporation caused by a porous material, as well as the increased root mass as encouraged by a fabric container's root pruning advantages. Which one accounts for more is a mystery, and it might turn out that it's a wash, i.e., the 'extra' amount uptaken by the roots is offset by water wicked away and evaporated because of the material.

In either case, my Smart Pots just took 33% more water than a hard plastic container and spilled less runoff. This suggests that the fabric is absorbing quite a bit, and also possibly helping to evenly moisten the root zone by acting as a wick.

Now, this leads me to my inquiry:
Because nutrient solution passing through a Smart Pot when compared to a hard plastic container (both more frequently and with each watering), does this increased amount of chemical salt passing through the soil(less mix) mean that a lower PPM is optimal for fabric pots? A big part of this grow is inspired by homebrewer and his 'less is more' approach, so I want to be able to find that perfect amount of nutrients and that might turn out to be different depending on the container.

Click to expand...

Let's hope Homebrewer responds because he is far more knowledgeable than I; I've been an outdoor grower since the early seventies but I'm new to indoor growing. If I had to hazard a guess I would think that it would be strain and plant dependent and you'd have to watch each plant to see how it responds. My initial thought would be "as a general guideline", I'd follow Dyna-Gro's recommendation for feeding for you grow media; also if you have specific questions you can write to them as they were very good at responding to my specific questions. Then watch the plants and see how they respond. I'm sure Homebrewer could add much more expertise. Good luck with your grow.

Let me tell u about dyna grow,its da best freakin fertilizer on da market,hands down, ive used fox farm,botanicare,advanced nutrients and let me tell u dynagrow beats em all!!! Let me tell u wat i use for veg dynagrow and protect just like hb, and for bloom,dyna bloom,floralicious bloom,protekt and kool bloom 10,10,10;i then finish with kbloom powder, wont switch back to anyhting else dyna grow is da shit!!!

infrared said:

Now, this leads me to my inquiry:
Because nutrient solution passing through a Smart Pot when compared to a hard plastic container (both more frequently and with each watering), does this increased amount of chemical salt passing through the soil(less mix) mean that a lower PPM is optimal for fabric pots? A big part of this grow is inspired by homebrewer and his 'less is more' approach, so I want to be able to find that perfect amount of nutrients and that might turn out to be different depending on the container.

Click to expand...

One thing I try to be aware of is the salt content of my dirt pots given how frequently I've fed and how often the plant requires water. Maintaining a healthy salt-buildup-free medium is important for achieving your best results so if you're watering more frequently with food, just make sure to feed with water only every third watering or so to leach your medium. I think a feed, feed, water regimen address the potential issue of salt buildup and as Albsure stated, the plants will ultimately tell you how they're doing which is a reflection of the health of your medium.

To address your situation specifically, if your smart parts are requiring more water and you're seeing less runoff, those mineral salts when you feed are getting trapped somewhere (i'm assuming in the fabric). Just be aware of this as the grow moves forward and hopefully it doesn't cause an issue. I don't think that necessarily means you'll need to feed less each time you water but that is kind of what this comparison is all about and I'm interested in your observations as things move forward.

Feed-feed-water, homebrewer says. I concur. Watered 4 of 6 plants tonite with .25 EC tap water that took about .75mL pH Down to get 8 gallons to 6.5.

A few things since the last images:
-fed #3 and #1 (both hard plastic pots) a couple days after the last update, so they were too wet to get water tonite. Considering that #6 took the longest between waterings, we now have clear proof that the plastic pots are retaining their water/nutes longer. How that impacts the results is something we get to see unfold over the next three months or so.
-sprayed with neem and ProTekt a couple times since then. I usually do ProTekt and soap for dispersal, but tried the ProTekt this time and any hint of a bug issue has been eradicated. The leaves look lovely and I'll probably keep this up, given that my tap pH means I don't feed as much ProTekt as some.

Here's the group:



#1. With a bunch of bending, I've been able to get the canopy pretty even, around 16" tall.



#2. Good example of the density of the new nodes.



#3.



#4.



#5. Just the tiniest hint of a claw further suggests that it's time for plain water. I got several leaves like this from a couple of my Kushberry seeds last cycle, but was more positively correlated with lighting issues than N toxicity. This one also doesn't really seem like enough N to cause a big problem (I've only used 9-3-6 Foliage Pro once and 7-9-5 Grow once; the other nutes came from Roots Organics), but also leads me to start some clones in SS#4 so I can have total control throughout rather than being (almost literally) burned by Roots. I really hope that stuff composts further so it's safe to include it in the Super Soil I'm about to mix.



#6.



All the bending has created a nice, bushy, even canopy. It fits perfectly under a 600w lamp, but I'm obviously hoping for a bit more lateral expansion. I upgraded to a 1000w MH and added a single-cola plant in the middle to create a circle that provides about 50w/sq ft once the plants get pulled out just a little bit further.

This new addition was the tallest a group of clones that'd been in Roots Organics for a couple weeks. The new Roots I got was a bit too hot and these plants all started looking a bit over-nuted, but have since recovered and is looking better as time goes on. I fed them with what was about 1ml Grow/gal (I did about 40/60 Grow solution/plain water) which was similar to the other plants' upcan nutes. That time was a mistake, this time was a consideration for the overly nutritious soil they're using up. Trivia side note: the SS#4 I used for this plant's 3gal Smart Pot was so dry that it took nearly a whole gallon before runoff!



The new canopy shape looks good, with the new plant a bit further than the rest so it can adjust to the more intense lighting. I'm keeping the hood so the bulb's about 16" above the new growth, and I'll probably keep it in the 12-16 range unless they show signs that suggest backing off.



I'll be giving plants 1 & 3 just a little bit of water when they start to dry, so that we can get them all on the same schedule. I want to begin drip feeding, but I suppose the different watering frequencies between Smart and hard plastic pots would necessitate some extra complexity.

These are my healthiest plants to date. Most of the grow is still to come and I am thankful to those whose posts have helped me better understand what our favorite plants really need.

If you take a look at the disparity between the number of 'Likes' I've received vs. those you can actually read on my profile, you get a sense for the fact that my period of most frequent contribution to this site has been erased forever.

It's hard to be motivated to publish local info and even my journal when it can all just disappear like that (and only a month into me seriously posting), but I am still taking photos now about 30 days into flower and might update here with one big post that shows the group in time lapse.

It does suck man... Nothing can be done now, and your posts today mean more than the like meter anyway. Life goes on and keep up the good work!