Learning, but would like some feedback

Hello.
I am a first time grower.
Smoke alot for my pain, and hope it is cheaper to grow myself.

I am growing in an area where I believe will be a heat issue during the summer months. Upstairs crawlspace (southside) that is approx. 5' high x 7' wide, the length of the house.
So therefore I choose to grow with cfl's.

Here is my current lighting setup:
I currently have a 250w cfl on a horizontal reflector.
And a 200w cfl on a horizontal reflector.
I hung the reflectors so the bulbs are facing each other.
I then used 2 adjustable clamp lamps (socket rated for 150w).
Removed the clamp lamps round reflector and attached them between the horizontal reflectors on each side.
The clamp lamps are clamped to both horizontal reflectors butt-ends.
Holding them togther.
Almost like 1 hood instead of 2
On each adjustable clamp lamp I have 3 Y-adaptors, 2x42w and 2x26w.
The 42w are placed on the outside, parallel to reflectors edge, and the 26w are facing in towards the center of the 2 reflectors.
These reflectors are not exactly the same shape, 1 is 18" and the other is 24" but it works for me............................now.
Abit of trial and error with the adjustable clamp lamps.
Had to strengthen them so they would hold the weight and not fall on my plants.
Poor guys

I have:
250w = 16000 lumens
200w = 14250
4x42w= 11400
4x27w= 6400
----------------
718w= 48050 lumens

All These bulbs are 6400k or 6500k.
I currently have 9 in 6" pots , they are approx. 7" tall
X= my plant placement.
Also have a few smaller seedlings in there in 3.5" pots not shown incase I killed my originals, LOL.
These are all from bagseed, no clones.
24h light.
[--------[42w]-----|-----[42w]-------]
[-----X----X-[26w]|[26w]-X----X-----]
[----[ 200w ]------X------[ 250w ]----]
[-----X----X-[26w]|[26w]-X----X-----]
[--------[42w]-----|-----[42w]-------]

[--24" reflector-----|--18" reflector ---]

Since there is not much light behind or around the socket and transformers, etc. I would consider this a 18" x 36" growing area.

----------------------------------------------

Ok
Now you now my current lighting.
So here comes all my dumb questions.

#1. :How tall should I grow my seedlings before I switch to 12/12.?

#2. :Should I top?
I am assuming not because I figured I want a single large top flower between my cfl's, as opposed to a mess of branches everywhere needing tying down to control from burning or lack of light.

#3. :When it is time to flower:
Should I replace the 6400k for 2700k bulbs?
or
Should I keep the 6400k's and add more reflectors and 2700k bulbs.
or
Should I supplement with red LED?

I realize a HPS would be ideal for less lighting maintenance, adjustments, etc.
But like I said I do not think my plants will like the heat from a HPS, and I am not about to renovate my house to vent, etc..

I have learned a alot around here from you guys, and would love some input before I spend more $.

WOW,Ive got alot of questions also,but lets see if i can help you out.First are you going to put up walls for reflextion?It doesnt have to be anything permenent or costly;simple plywood,sheetrock,or just canvas painted white.If so with 18"x36" grow space with all that lighting,will give you 150watt per square foot,way too much IMO.Peolpe usally shoot for 50-75 wt/sqft.Bag seeds are hard becase you dont know how much they will strech.Personally i would put them in flower soon;not more then 10".Topping;i would FIM top but its kinda late now on this grow,i would fim top at 4-5th node.With fim topping you really dont have to keep training them.I wouldnt change the bulbs until the strech in 12/12 is over,usally takes 2 weeks.Then if you have the money i would just replace the two large bulbs with 27k,if you dont have the money replace some of the smaller bulbs with them.To be honest heat is heat IMO you get the same heat from hps as cfl's its just the hps is more concentrated.The problem is hieght in your case but it can be done.I hope this helped.Sometimes i dont get back to theads right away if so & you need more help;PM me.Good Luck!Stay Safe!!Ps about the too much lighting just make your room bigger if you want to use all that light.Example if you make your room 3.5 feetX3.5 feet this would give you 59 w/sqft(perfect)or go alittle smaller.What are your temps now?In the summer running more then 60wt/sqft can cause alot of heat problems.

1. u can do it in week 3 - week 20.. if u wanted to....

2.People told me that topin doesnt resulst in bigger yields.... but i guess if you like the feeling off loads of heads go for it.... I personly didnt have the guts to do it... and im happy that i didnt do it...

3. 2700 k.... is for flowering and 6400 for veg - i wouldnt replace with led's
and if you have got a hps and got enough space + time .... Go for hps...

Veg with your 6400 cfl's and then use your HPS for flowering......

ah just read you havnt got a hps... cuz of the heat and renovations you would have to do.

Yeah man good point, u have a good cfl system yo !

[--------[42w]-----|-----[42w]-------]
[-----X----X-[26w]|[26w]-X----X-----]
[----[ 200w ]------X------[ 250w ]----]
[-----X----X-[26w]|[26w]-X----X-----]
[--------[42w]-----|-----[42w]-------]

[--24" reflector-----|--18" reflector ---]


Like the way u did it ^^ good one...

got any pics ?

ronbud1963 said:

WOW,Ive got alot of questions also,but lets see if i can help you out.First are you going to put up walls for reflextion?It doesnt have to be anything permenent or costly;simple plywood,sheetrock,or just canvas painted white.If so with 18"x36" grow space with all that lighting,will give you 150watt per square foot,way too much IMO.Peolpe usally shoot for 50-75 wt/sqft.Bag seeds are hard becase you dont know how much they will strech.Personally i would put them in flower soon;not more then 10".Topping;i would FIM top but its kinda late now on this grow,i would fim top at 4-5th node.With fim topping you really dont have to keep training them.I wouldnt change the bulbs until the strech in 12/12 is over,usally takes 2 weeks.Then if you have the money i would just replace the two large bulbs with 27k,if you dont have the money replace some of the smaller bulbs with them.To be honest heat is heat IMO you get the same heat from hps as cfl's its just the hps is more concentrated.The problem is hieght in your case but it can be done.I hope this helped.Sometimes i dont get back to theads right away if so & you need more help;PM me.Good Luck!Stay Safe!!Ps about the too much lighting just make your room bigger if you want to use all that light.Example if you make your room 3.5 feetX3.5 feet this would give you 59 w/sqft(perfect)or go alittle smaller.What are your temps now?In the summer running more then 60wt/sqft can cause alot of heat problems.

Click to expand...

150W CFL per square foot is too much? You've got to be kidding...

Carry on with the bad advice...

Snaggy, you've got a good setup with a great amount of lighting despite what this guy is telling you.

wbd - man you crack me up. Last post I read from you coke shot out of my mouth all over my laptop - someone asked a really simple question and you replied with something like "I see you've done exhaustive research on this" - classic LOL!

You can never have too much light - only too much heat. ronbud has a point in making a small reflective space to grow in, but then again it all depends on how many plants your going to grow. You've the guts of 700 watts of CFL's - put some on the sides too - I'm using 800watts ( 4x200 ) and its working a dream. Have mine in a 1 meter squared grow tent now.

use as many 2700K during flowering as you can - but use the 6400K lights too - they will prevent stretching - the plants wont mind at all.

someone asked a really simple question and you replied with something like "I see you've done exhaustive research on this" - classic LOL!

Rofl.... hahaha made me spill my joint on my desk ^^

All I have to say is flower them short when your using CFL's I never let them get any bigger then 12" before i flower when using CFL's but if im usin HID's then ill let them grow two or three feet before I flower.

DMTER said:

All I have to say is flower them short when your using CFL's I never let them get any bigger then 12" before i flower when using CFL's but if im usin HID's then ill let them grow two or three feet before I flower.

Click to expand...

why flower them short ? they need the same flowering as hps does... i mean if not more....

I think he is refferring to the folliage penatration of CFL's = keep them short in order for the light to hit all areas. If you have enough CFL's that you can cover the entire plant without cooking it then grow to whatever size you want. That'd be a while mess of CFL's though . . .

DWR said:

someone asked a really simple question and you replied with something like "I see you've done exhaustive research on this" - classic LOL!

Rofl.... hahaha made me spill my joint on my desk ^^

Click to expand...

It's funnier if you read it with the guy's question.

@ronbud, if you were talking about heat, then you may have a point. But you didn't say anything about heat, you just said 150W/sqft was too much in the context of talking about lighting, so forgive me for taking what you wrote literally.

Thanks for the quick replies.

I do have the butt-end wall, vertical wall , and the slanted ceiling covered in cheaper silver Mylar via duct-tape.

It is not enclosed yet in any way.
On the floor I laid down a blanket for insulation. - the floor has cracks between the boards.
And laid a blue tarp over that. -don't want a water stain down stairs.
I then laid a white laminate board over that for something for light to reflect back up - ran out of mylar, guess more would be good for the floor and pot tops to help utilize all I can from cfl's.

I have not had a problem with pests yet.....that I can see.
If I do, I hear ladybugs is better than insecticides or soaps.

I have had some trials getting ph run-off right for my plants.
Found out my soilless was dropping my tap water from >7 to <5.5
But I kinda have it close to 6.5 now.
The plants I have are short things, with fat leaves.
When seedlings first sprouted I removed all tall seedlings because I assumed they are going to remain that way which is not good for my low slanted ceiling.
I am also doing this to help ease my pain, and from what I have researched Indica is more of a short plant , and a body buzz.
I assume it is a body buzz I need.
Not a sativa.
Is this correct?

I see some people say their plants can grow an inch a day.
Is this true?
Are they sativa's?

My plant grow more like 1/4 inch a day.
But the nodes are not really spaced out like
some of the posts I see here.
So I assume I'll be ok if I can keep the ph stable now.

Expect the worse:
I have 3 generations of seedlings, because I always assumed the older ones would die.
The oldest group got over fertilized when young (didn't read what I gave them, mixed had manure in it, duh!)
So I flushed them a couple times and fed them water till I could figure out if it was at a deficiency or burn.

I then got some shults slow release potting soil.
transplanted my 1 generations, and baby 2nd gens (after 1 inch rockwool) in this.
Could tell what the hell was going on.
lol.
They were starving for nutes again I think.
I waited till I could definitely tell.... I realize a deficiency is easier to cure than an excess.
Deficiency.

Here we go again.
Transplant 1st and 2nd group of seddlings to Mcovey's premier soiless in 6" pots.
Gave 1st (oldest) group plant-prod 20-20-20.
Gave 2nd group plant-prod 10-52-10. (next weekend getting 20-20-20)
3rd group (yes, 4 more, lol) transplanted 1" rockwool to 4" pots and fed 10-52-10.

I am feeding approx. 50% of the recommend dosage every 2 weeks.
I water when needed.
I make sure every pot has a bit of run-off .....needed to anyways for couple weeks until I figured how to ph water so run-off is correct.
Not alot of run-off to leach the soil, but enough to get a ph test and make sure .....I forget, something about salts not flushing away.

I wait till they the pots are light, and the leaves are dropping before I water again.
(Although hard to tell with older guys ...leaves always pointed at soil to tell me they were angry)

Well
2 of my 2nd generation seedlings had the clamp lamp fall on them.

But the 2nd group is only 1 inch behind the first generations in height.
(1 of my 1st guys is showing a magnesium deficiency I think)
3rd generations are looking great ...........................so far.
LOL
Still babies , I'll screw them over yet.

Like I said, I expected the worse, and I hope for 4 girls.


Here's all my stupid the questions:

From what I understand.
I can use Plant-prod 10-52-10 for 1 month seedlings , after 2 weeks old.
Then 20-20-20 for veg and 15-30-15 for flower.
Is this correct?

Reflectors have 2 positions for socket. Upper & Lower.
Which position is best?

I have them in the lower position because I figure less heat on my plant tops because they are not way up inside the hood, just abit.
And because my reflectors are white, so how much reflecting is it really going to do anyways.
Anybody tried to glue mylar on the inside of a reflector for better lumens?
Will this produce better lumens?


I know tinfoil is bad.
Do mirrors help?
Do they block most of the blue spectrum like window glass does?

If I start flower at 10":
How tall should they approx. be fully flowered?

Sorry for all the newbie questions.......
I just want to be prepared without going too overboard or underboard.
And hopefully get the best I can from the space, money, equipment I have.

Also curious..
I have 718w= 48050 lumens

What yield "should" this be equivalent to when comparing to HID wattage?
Are we concerned 100% with lumens?
If a 600w HID is twice my lumens. It would be 1/2 my CFL lumens with HID 2 feet away?

Are CFL and HID lumens measured from the same distance from bulb?
If distance is 1 foot away for each ....do I not also gain more lumens moving closer to cfl?

wbd,I did say heat is heat,its just hps is more concentrated.I also said IMO.Also at the end of my post i said poeple that use more then 60w/sqft can run into heat problems.wbd no harm done,i was bored and i noticed no one had wrote back to him yet.oddball,you said you run 800watt in one sq meter,well thats only 73wt/sqft,you would have to double that for 150wt/sqft.Sorry if anyonetook my post as bad advice,ive only been growing since 2005,so im still a noobbie(3years);i still learn lots every day.Everyone Stay Safe!!

Topping and fimming does increase yields substantially theres also speculation that the resulting buds are stronger because the plant has basically been attacked it produces more thc/cbd chemicals and resin in self defence.
I always top and fimm my main plants and always will

Well looks like my plants are slowly getting happier now that I have gotten ph more stable.
Most growth in 12 hours I have ever seen yet.

I know I was ramblin , and asked too many questions above that probably deserve to be in another thread.
Sorry.