LED Strip Build Questions

haze010

haze010

Well-Known Member
algebraist said:
Hey. (@Serva: hope you're not asking me, that would be crazy...)

I did some number crunching: To generate 10,000 lumens with 560mm (22 inch) strips, using 3500K LEDs:

Bridgelux EB: $31.00, using 64W.

Samsung H-series: $79.00, using 55W.

Samsung F-series, single row: $31.50, using 59W.

Samsung F-series, double row: $27.00, using 59W.

The prices are based on what Digi-Key is listing them for right now; I didn't shop around. And these calculations are for exactly 10,000 lumens -- regardless of the fact that that necessitates fractions of boards, which is clearly ridiculous, but just for comparison. And they are using the "typical" currents from the manufacturers' data sheets -- start playing with the current and it gets more complicated.

Results: The H-series is the most efficient, but more than twice as expensive, which I think is enough to put it out of the running. The F-series look good, but they are not yet in stock, so there's a question of how long I can wait (not very...). So I am leaning toward the Bridgelux.

And so it comes back to my first question: Each Bridgelux EB strip (at "typical" current of 700mA) puts out 2410 lumens. How many to light a 2ft x 4ft flowering tent really, really well? Your opinion humbly requested...
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Your numbers on pricing to get there for the H series samsfhg are off becauize digikey pricing suchs. I got mine for $9.75 a strip when dijikey had them almost $17. They should fall in same generil ballpark as they others with accurate pricing that u can git wuth arrow.

Too lazy to edit muh dyslexic typing. Hope its readiblo
 
Budies 101

Budies 101

Well-Known Member
Seems kind of spendy to me...

I had a board made for me and when it gets here ill post a pic... If it works lol.
 
haze010

haze010

Well-Known Member
Budies 101 said:
Seems kind of spendy to me...

I had a board made for me and when it gets here ill post a pic... If it works lol.
Click to expand...
Its an investment that more than pays for itself. There are cheap options but with these you get what you pay for
 
Budies 101

Budies 101

Well-Known Member
haze010 said:
Its an investment that more than pays for itself. There are cheap options but with these you get what you pay for
Click to expand...

I agree. I had a board built and the first single boards cost me like 700$ for 4 of them lol. But if they work I can buy a bunch for like 70$ each. So i know what you mean =) Once you build your own led lights HPS just seem like a waste of time haha, least that's how it is for meh~
 
algebraist

algebraist

Well-Known Member
Serva said:
You have 2x4ft tent? My suggestion:
2 Panel with 12 Strips powered by HLG-185H-C700A. You can adjust between 190-380W
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haze010 said:
Yep and the setup i was advised is exactly halfway between this one. So if u have less of a budget go with one of the 16 strip options picklesrus gave me or a bigger budget the w4 strip advicw above. Either should be good...

Edit w4 is 24 and advicw is advice... Dyslexia in action...
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Thank you both -- it is starting to sound like a plan....!
 
Serva

Serva

Well-Known Member
400W HPS = 50.000-60.000 lm
600W HPS = 70.000-80.000 lm

My suggestion is like 250-400W HPS, if you want to have a really perfekt light, than you have to adjust. Was just speaking about what I would do ;)

Personally I probably go with HVGC-100-350mA (20$) and 12 Stripes (50$) screwing them side by side on some heatsink (30$) 1'x1' (30x30cm), for up to 92W / 14.352lm (156lm/W).
 
haze010

haze010

Well-Known Member
Serva said:
400W HPS = 50.000-60.000 lm
600W HPS = 70.000-80.000 lm

My suggestion is like 250-400W HPS, if you want to have a really perfekt light, than you have to adjust. Was just speaking about what I would do ;)

Personally I probably go with HVGC-100-350mA (20$) and 12 Stripes (50$) screwing them side by side on some heatsink (30$) 1'x1' (30x30cm), for up to 92W / 14.352lm (156lm/W).
Click to expand...
Edit i had a long post here that rambled and went sideways when i completely misunderstood his entire post. In retrospect i decided to just edit it out. For anyone that read it before i edited it out disregard it all, it was my confused dyslexic brain misunderstandign his post and the numbers in it. Someone else should analyze this tho because it just seems totally wrong to me, what strip are you getting for $4 a strip that isnt garbage? when i search for hvgc-100-350mA i get..
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/HVGC-100-350A/?qs=OWNNKVY/8K34jMYgEBAaFw==
Which costs over a lot more than $20...
 
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Serva

Serva

Well-Known Member
BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-A3

at digikey for 4,16$ (to be correct)

That is the Bridgelux BE Series, there is a whole thread about them. If you don't want to spend 2-3x more money, its a pretty good compromiss.

You could also take a HLG-185H-C700A with 12 Strips (and I am talking about the 1', but they are also avaible in 2' and 4'), and you will have a setup for under 150$ that will have following data:

92-196W /// 14.352-26.656 lm /// 156-136 lm/W

If you have a bigger tent like me, take 6x 2', or whatever is working for you. But you will pay like <0.8$ / W, so you can spend the money and get some awsome coverage!
 
haze010

haze010

Well-Known Member
Serva said:
BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-A3

at digikey for 4,16$ (to be correct)

That is the Bridgelux BE Series, there is a whole thread about them. If you don't want to spend 2-3x more money, its a pretty good compromiss.

You could also take a HLG-185H-C700A with 12 Strips (and I am talking about the 1', but they are also avaible in 2' and 4'), and you will have a setup for under 150$ that will have following data:

92-196W /// 14.352-26.656 lm /// 156-136 lm/W

If you have a bigger tent like me, take 6x 2', or whatever is working for you. But you will pay like <0.8$ / W, so you can spend the money and get some awsome coverage!
Click to expand...
Ohhh my bad, thats the 1 foot strips. We are talking different lengths so half the price.

I was talking the 2 foot lengths so we are on the same page. If i say you cant get a decent strip for $4 i meant as a 2 foot length. so if you go 2 feet thats more the ballpark i had in my head of 8$ on the bridgelux and i paid 9.75 for samsung h 2foot.

With my dyslexia i cant really do math well but i get where u are coming from now.
 
Serva

Serva

Well-Known Member
Yeah sorry! I also just had my own numbers in mind ;) Didn't payed attantion that algebraist is also looking for 2ft...
 
algebraist

algebraist

Well-Known Member
Hi All -- Got too busy to look at this for a while, but I'm back to obsessing...

Suppose I go for overkill, and put more strips than I really need on my fixture, and pick an appropriate constant current driver that can power them all at some reasonable current -- say 700mA, just for argument. Then I'll need a way to back off some. I'll be using a dimmable driver, so that's one way -- but only reasonable down to about 40 or 50%. My question:

Can I wire them in parallel, and put a switch in front of each strip, so I can turn individual strips off?

Only run half of them, for example. Or, I guess this would have the same effect:

Can I wire them in series and switched circuits to bypass individual strips?

i.e. a wire connected to both the input and output of the strip, with a switch -- when it's open, the strip is on, closed and the strip is bypassed.

I'm sure the question of whether to wire them in series or parallel is treated all over the place, but I don't recall the answer (if there's only one) or the arguments (if you can do it either way).

And maybe these questions boil down to this:

What happens if a constant current driver powers something much smaller than its capacity?

Does it send the voltage through the roof, and blow the device? I'm guessing no -- the device -- an LED strip in this case -- must have some intrinsic, set resistance, and so the driver should just end up passing the expected current through it at the voltage appropriate to the device. That's my guess, but I don't know what I'm talking about... Thanks!
 
haze010

haze010

Well-Known Member
algebraist said:
Hi All -- Got too busy to look at this for a while, but I'm back to obsessing...

Suppose I go for overkill, and put more strips than I really need on my fixture, and pick an appropriate constant current driver that can power them all at some reasonable current -- say 700mA, just for argument. Then I'll need a way to back off some. I'll be using a dimmable driver, so that's one way -- but only reasonable down to about 40 or 50%. My question:

Can I wire them in parallel, and put a switch in front of each strip, so I can turn individual strips off?

Only run half of them, for example. Or, I guess this would have the same effect:

Can I wire them in series and switched circuits to bypass individual strips?

i.e. a wire connected to both the input and output of the strip, with a switch -- when it's open, the strip is on, closed and the strip is bypassed.

I'm sure the question of whether to wire them in series or parallel is treated all over the place, but I don't recall the answer (if there's only one) or the arguments (if you can do it either way).

And maybe these questions boil down to this:

What happens if a constant current driver powers something much smaller than its capacity?

Does it send the voltage through the roof, and blow the device? I'm guessing no -- the device -- an LED strip in this case -- must have some intrinsic, set resistance, and so the driver should just end up passing the expected current through it at the voltage appropriate to the device. That's my guess, but I don't know what I'm talking about... Thanks!
Click to expand...
Took me awhile to wrap my head around it but pretty sure i do now so ill give it a go and if i still have it wrong im sure someone will correct me.

So for constant current it just means exactly what it sounds like the current will always be what its rated at. Example
hlg-120h-c700b
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/HLG-120H-C-SPEC-806188.pdf
That driver has a constant current of 700mA.

If you look at the voltage range you will see.
VOLTAGE RANGE Note.3: 90 ~ 305VAC 127 ~ 431VDC
As long as the total voltage of what you have wired in series falls in that voltage range you're good and they will have 700mA running thru them. The voltage is what changes, the current is constant.

When you add a 100k linear potentiometer to it, its a resistance based dimmer, so as long as your voltage fits in that range you can dim the lights down as you need without issue.
 
algebraist

algebraist

Well-Known Member
Ahhh -- got it! Thanks -- I had completely forgotten about the output voltage range of the driver, which is the key.
 
D

DirtRunner

Member
haze010 said:
Took me awhile to wrap my head around it but pretty sure i do now so ill give it a go and if i still have it wrong im sure someone will correct me.

So for constant current it just means exactly what it sounds like the current will always be what its rated at. Example
hlg-120h-c700b
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/HLG-120H-C-SPEC-806188.pdf
That driver has a constant current of 700mA.

If you look at the voltage range you will see.
VOLTAGE RANGE Note.3: 90 ~ 305VAC 127 ~ 431VDC
As long as the total voltage of what you have wired in series falls in that voltage range you're good and they will have 700mA running thru them. The voltage is what changes, the current is constant.

When you add a 100k linear potentiometer to it, its a resistance based dimmer, so as long as your voltage fits in that range you can dim the lights down as you need without issue.
Click to expand...
The voltage you quoted is the input voltage (the voltage coming out of the wall socket). The output voltage over which that driver can maintain constant current is 107V ~ 215V, per the data sheet.
 
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algebraist

algebraist

Well-Known Member
Thanks @DirtRunner. I haven't picked a driver yet; when I do I'll certainly look carefully at its specs.

Slowly catching on -- I'm not going to be able to switch them on and off individually if I run them in parallel -- if I did the current would split across them, and when I switched one off the current would go up in all the others, which would defeat the purpose.
 
Serva

Serva

Well-Known Member
But you could do it in series circuit. It will be ineffectiv to run them very low, but on every driver you use, you can bypass 2-5 Strips. Otherwise take 2 driver?
 
algebraist

algebraist

Well-Known Member
Serva said:
But you could do it in series circuit. It will be ineffectiv to run them very low, but on every driver you use, you can bypass 2-5 Strips. Otherwise take 2 driver?
Click to expand...
Yeah, in a series circuit I just have to make sure I stay within the output voltage range -- that's what governs how many I can switch off. And good point -- running it on multiple drivers would make it even more flexible, at the expense of the extra components. (Have to start pricing drivers -- maybe two smaller ones is comparable to one larger one.)

I'm currently thinking 10 2ft Bridgelux EB strips in each 2x2 fixture (2 such fixtures in my 2x4 tent); shooting for being able to switch off about half of them, and everything dimmable. That's about 50,000 lumens total across the two fixtures (I know, lumens for humans..., but what can you do, that's what's easily calculated from the data sheet), and I'm hoping that's plenty for flowering. I was originally planning to only use it for flowering, but I'm on the fence and might want to veg as well -- still working on the whole setup. I'm also thinking either all 3000K strips, or maybe make half of them 3500K.
 
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