Led Users Unite!

All LED users or people that are interested in LEDs should click on the second link in my signature and watch for yourself the truth behind growing with LEDS.

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Harrekin said:

I aint hating and I didnt say you couldnt grow with them, but basically the only tangible advantage to LED's is lower heat...thats the simple fact.

If you wanna grow weed without producing lots of heat, buy LED's...for any other scenario HID will do the same/outperform LED's...and the dude comparing a 145w panel to a 1000w HPS needs to put the bong down in fairness, they dont produce the same lumens, not even vaguely near it (even tho lumens is a stupid way of measuring light output for growing).

The different coloured diodes...most LED panels made by proper companies only have 2 colours of diodes...and arguibly considering we dont have an actual cannabis PAR scale the HID bulbs produce a more "full" spectrum between MH and HPS.

Changing bulbs...I can get 6-10 bulbs + ballast for less than the equivilent LED.

Come on guys, misrepresenting the facts damages LED's more than anyone bashing them...

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2 colors? Really? I can't hear you all the way back there in 2007.

tristynhawk said:

hell i was just going to order one. I'm glad i didn't so what would you guys suggest. Im not looking for yield or a huge grow.

I want 5 or 6 plants this winter to do some breeding for next years outdoors. Would a blackstar work for these purposes.

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Check out my two blackstar grows in my signature and you can see the proof

sleezy1 said:

Check out my two blackstar grows in my signature and you can see the proof

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Blackstars work well, the only thing to keep in mind is their advertised wattage is a good ways off from their actual wattage (about ~55%). This isn't any attempt to "scam" anyone or anything, they're very straight forward about it. It's just something to keep in mind when comparing to other brands. At first glance you might compare the blackstar 500w to another 500w light, and the other one might be much more expensive, but it may also be 500 actual watts. Like I said though, they are good lights.

virulient said:

Blackstars work well, the only thing to keep in mind is their advertised wattage is a good ways off from their actual wattage (about ~55%). This isn't any attempt to "scam" anyone or anything, they're very straight forward about it. It's just something to keep in mind when comparing to other brands. At first glance you might compare the blackstar 500w to another 500w light, and the other one might be much more expensive, but it may also be 500 actual watts. Like I said though, they are good lights.

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Yeah, then a 500W would actually cover what a 500W HPS would cover, but on better PAR (compared to how many more lumens are absorbed by LED at a much lower Lumen level even tho it's still peaking a whopping 120,000 LUX which is actually too much. One is never to go past a LUX range of 90,000 LUX, and 25,000-50,000 LUX is what's needed for accelerated growth, but an LED is penetrating near 2X the LUX in the eyes of the plant compared to what the meter reads which is an insane number. Maybe the whole "Solorization" thing doesnt occur in an LED past 90,000 LUX? I dont have any idea, honestly on that matter.

I forgot how many fans and was wrong on the number of them in a 500W Black Star, and then found them running only 304ísh watts. If it were an incredible heatsink casing with no fans then it would be quite the bit better at the rate it is drawing now if the fans just werent drawing.
I admit I also think a 500W LED should draw 500W. That's the only way the HPS/MH (Only) types will have something to compare to, to understand where LED technology is. By the time we do that we will have wider lenses, better lenses, better mylar, and bulbs
Now THAT would truly be something incredible to see.
I am def a fan of the BS 500, tho, but I think in 2 years LED is going to knock everyones socks off and the debates will be over, and everyone will have better, larger amounts of medicine.

I have found thorough real life growing experience and several successful harvest now that using HID and LED is the best way to go. My first harvest was 100% led (4x 600 blackstars 340 actual watts) and the yield was shit 3.5 oz's. So then I added a 1000 watt baddass bulb and ballast with a blockbuster hood along with the 4 blackstars, and I pulled down nearly 8 zip! All were the same strain lemon skunk from DNA genetics and this was 6 plants per run in Aero. So pretty much just adding a 1000 hps to the middle of the room bumped harvest weight up more than double. I feel like the HPS adds the intensity to get through the canopy and has a big footprint, and the leds are just there to fill in shady spots and of course frost them nugs up with the UVB.

bmf725 said:

I have found thorough real life growing experience and several successful harvest now that using HID and LED is the best way to go. My first harvest was 100% led (4x 600 blackstars 340 actual watts) and the yield was shit 3.5 oz's. So then I added a 1000 watt baddass bulb and ballast with a blockbuster hood along with the 4 blackstars, and I pulled down nearly 8 zip! All were the same strain lemon skunk from DNA genetics and this was 6 plants per run in Aero. So pretty much just adding a 1000 hps to the middle of the room bumped harvest weight up more than double. I feel like the HPS adds the intensity to get through the canopy and has a big footprint, and the leds are just there to fill in shady spots and of course frost them nugs up with the UVB.

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Edit: I apologize. Some of what I typed below doesnt matter since I ignored the fact of how many plants you were growing, but you can read on to see what expectations come from this strain. I asked in 1 part how many plants you were growing but it was my mistake by skipping over. So, you are only pulling a little over 0.583 Ounces per plant with all 4 LED panels, and 1.333 Ounces per plant runnning a 1,000W HPS, and 4 LED panels? On one man's first grow that he messed up with 2X Lemon Skunks yielded 45 Grams Dry (under 1 Ounce per plant). If he were running 6 Plants he would have gotten under 6 Ounces. Your grow is actually spot on for HPS alone and no need for extra lights when running 6 plants (I wouldnt think). I of course do not know much, but this is some to give you to think off of.
I would like to ask... Were these yield both total dry with all weight of 6 plants combined?

To be honest with everything negative that may come across I am as impressed at these results as dissappointed. I think you did a pretty dang decent job on that yield. I only dont understand completely because the HPS 1,000W should be more than capable of that kind of yield.
As far as the HID having more penetration. It does by its methods. Its a sphere, and light scatters everywhere equally. An LED should be called "Direct Beam Lighting"

You were only able to pull 8 Oz. from a 1,000W HPS joined with 4X 600W LED panels with a total led draw of 1,360W LED Draw? With your ballast and a fan and the LED's you are pulling enough wattage to grow a forest of way more than 8 Ounce plants. We will look at the strains maximum possibilities in growth in a bit to show you cannot yield 8 Ounces of dry Lemon Skunk even in the Sun, or perfect environment. No pro in the world in any environment has yielded 8 Ounces of dry Lemon Skunk from a plant even in preperation for high times
Lemon Skunk can harvest up to 500-600 Grams per meter square (21.428 Ounces wet). Lets say you can only harvest half of that (Wet), and you only end up with 20% of the weight dry. So, almost 11 Ounces wet would leave you with a tad less than 3 Ounces, dry. The companies selling them list an expectation of 2 to 3 ounces per plant.
How many plants did you grow with the LED, and how many did you grow to get this yield under both lighting methods?
So, if you harvested 8 Ounces per plant dry then you yieleded more than the genetics allow in a greenhouse or the best environment in the Sun with the best nutrients money has to offer. I would be writing to the magazines as Lemon Skunks maximum dry weight is actually 6 ounces or less. This shows your LED's were kicking the same amount of butt when combining wattage.
I dont believe that is a possibility.

What products:
If you are indoors where are you keeping your Co2? This is truly a record breaker I've never seen or heard of in weight for this strain.
Plant Container Size and Type (regular container or air pruner)?
Nutrients?
pH Meter & where you keep your pH Set & how often you calibrate?
Where did you prune and at what stage?
Soil. Are you using a soil that will balance your pH between 6.2 and 6.7?
How far do you keep your LED from the top of the plants, and is it a 3W LED unit?
How long do you leave your crop (s) in seedling stage, how many weeks in Veg & how many in Bloom?

It sounds like a deficiency. You're running 2,500W with ballast, LED's, Fan, and HPS Bulb. I'd say honestly to return the LEDS if they are consuming almost identical to your HPS but you are able to pull double from what it sounds like with just HPS.
If you have only done one grow, you gotta completely change your LED routine from you HPS one on watering.

I got my advanced led diamond light today.I am super surprised how bright it is, it's gonna rock i think. Unfortunately i got a phone call to go to work and won't be able to run it for 3-4 months.

tristynhawk said:

I got my advanced led diamond light today.I am super surprised how bright it is, it's gonna rock i think. Unfortunately i got a phone call to go to work and won't be able to run it for 3-4 months.

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No worries. You can send it to me and I'll break it in for you

So, I know there is much research involved in picking and LED or matching power of an HPS using LED's....

With that in mind, I'm setting up a NEW room and would really like to use LED if I can get the equivalent of 2 x 1000w HPS. I will have 1-2 flower rooms (either 1 big or 2 small). Which brand/model LED's would it take to best accomplish this? Right now I'm looking at Blackstar, Diamond, Black Dog, etc... What about 2 of the Diamond 600's ? Or 2 of the Diamond 800's? Or maybe 4 x 400's??

Sorry for the newb question I've been reseaching like a mofo but keep finding contradicting arguments. I really want to get LED for energy saving / heat issues. Not to mention, if I get 2x 1000w HPS, that also probably would require me to mess with the electric panels/wiring.

I don't mind spending extra money for the time being for something that equates to 1000w HPS in yield. I have an entire room to work with so I'm really open to ideas on the flowering room!!! Right now I just have a DR80 with 400w CMH! The 400w CMH alone almost requires me to buy a separate ac... another reason to buy LED instead of ac!!!!

The OTHER option is to use the cold of winter to cool off a 1000w HPS and then after winter on my next grow, switch to LED. By that time...maybe price would come down? Maybe there will be newer technology? Is it a good time to buy these panels or is there any indication that it might be better to wait a couple months?

Any suggestions?

i would look into either growledhydro.com they have the spectra models , or progrow leds both are reasonably priced and have warmwhite led's

dimyself said:

So, I know there is much research involved in picking and LED or matching power of an HPS using LED's....

With that in mind, I'm setting up a NEW room and would really like to use LED if I can get the equivalent of 2 x 1000w HPS. I will have 1-2 flower rooms (either 1 big or 2 small). Which brand/model LED's would it take to best accomplish this? Right now I'm looking at Blackstar, Diamond, Black Dog, etc... What about 2 of the Diamond 600's ? Or 2 of the Diamond 800's? Or maybe 4 x 400's??

Sorry for the newb question I've been reseaching like a mofo but keep finding contradicting arguments. I really want to get LED for energy saving / heat issues. Not to mention, if I get 2x 1000w HPS, that also probably would require me to mess with the electric panels/wiring.

I don't mind spending extra money for the time being for something that equates to 1000w HPS in yield. I have an entire room to work with so I'm really open to ideas on the flowering room!!! Right now I just have a DR80 with 400w CMH! The 400w CMH alone almost requires me to buy a separate ac... another reason to buy LED instead of ac!!!!

The OTHER option is to use the cold of winter to cool off a 1000w HPS and then after winter on my next grow, switch to LED. By that time...maybe price would come down? Maybe there will be newer technology? Is it a good time to buy these panels or is there any indication that it might be better to wait a couple months?

Any suggestions?

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In my opinion......waiting a couple months couldn't hurt. LED's work, I love them, but in for the winter time I will be pulling out the CMH. A side note for you, when you DO decide to go LED; I have had more success with buying more, smaller sized panels and chaining them together rather than buying a couple of huge units. The AdvancedLED Diamonds are really really good, but their old model was good, and then they hit us with the Diamonds and they're awesome. What is 2012 going to offer us? Maybe something better, maybe not? Maybe they come out with a light utilizing 5w diodes or 6w diodes. Or maybe they come down in price. Either way, I'm using my CMH this winter regardless.

Also, for your wattage question, whether you end up running 2000 watts of HID or 1500 watts of LED, you're going to need a 20 amp circuit to be safe. A 15 amp circuit will only yield 1650 watts. A 20 amp circuit, with 2000 watts of HID.....you wouldn't be able to add an A/C. You would only have 200 more watts to work with. Keep in mind Amps x Volts = Watts, and you never want to "barely" make it.

blackstar are ok , and black dogs are badass but over priced a bit , but they do have the only light using 3 and 5w chips might be worth looking more into.

ok cool thanks guys... i guess i'll just run CMH / HPS this winter and look into LED after! I just hate having to run ac in winter...cutting holes for exhaust... extra electric...etc.

Nah, you miss the point of running the CMH. In the winter time the LED's can't keep the room warm enough, so you would have to run heat. CMH warms your room, you use a fan controller blowing the outside air through your fixture connected to a thermostat. You need no outside cooling/heating in the winter time if your growing inside your home and have your central heat on so that it's not freezing balls throughout your house.

dimyself said:

So, I know there is much research involved in picking and LED or matching power of an HPS using LED's....

With that in mind, I'm setting up a NEW room and would really like to use LED if I can get the equivalent of 2 x 1000w HPS. I will have 1-2 flower rooms (either 1 big or 2 small). Which brand/model LED's would it take to best accomplish this? Right now I'm looking at Blackstar, Diamond, Black Dog, etc... What about 2 of the Diamond 600's ? Or 2 of the Diamond 800's? Or maybe 4 x 400's??

Sorry for the newb question I've been reseaching like a mofo but keep finding contradicting arguments. I really want to get LED for energy saving / heat issues. Not to mention, if I get 2x 1000w HPS, that also probably would require me to mess with the electric panels/wiring.

I don't mind spending extra money for the time being for something that equates to 1000w HPS in yield. I have an entire room to work with so I'm really open to ideas on the flowering room!!! Right now I just have a DR80 with 400w CMH! The 400w CMH alone almost requires me to buy a separate ac... another reason to buy LED instead of ac!!!!

The OTHER option is to use the cold of winter to cool off a 1000w HPS and then after winter on my next grow, switch to LED. By that time...maybe price would come down? Maybe there will be newer technology? Is it a good time to buy these panels or is there any indication that it might be better to wait a couple months?

Any suggestions?

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I have a diamond panel and one of advanced's 3w extreme flowers and I love them. So naturally I'd recommend them. I have a link to a grow with a 800w diamond and it's very nice. I am also interested in the black dog leds, and I'd like to see how the platinum xl, 700, and 1300 models fair as potential 1,000w hps replacements.

And to address your question about newer led technology coming out within the next few months, I don't expect so. Several companies just released new leds in the last couple months and I know some more are planning on catching up. I doubt there will be another something newer for at least another year or so.

Hope that helps some.

virulient said:

Nah, you miss the point of running the CMH. In the winter time the LED's can't keep the room warm enough, so you would have to run heat. CMH warms your room, you use a fan controller blowing the outside air through your fixture connected to a thermostat. You need no outside cooling/heating in the winter time if your growing inside your home and have your central heat on so that it's not freezing balls throughout your house.

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Are you exhausting in the same room or attic / somewhere else? The thing is... I want to get another light so I will be able to take clones and start a separate flower area and keep mothers. With an extra 400w CMH or 600w HPS, I'm thinking I may still need to vent all that heat

Who dat!!!!!!!

Experimental fashioned LED grow comparing 3 LED brands > https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/474084-ultimate-led-test-glh-spectra.html

dimyself said:

Are you exhausting in the same room or attic / somewhere else? The thing is... I want to get another light so I will be able to take clones and start a separate flower area and keep mothers. With an extra 400w CMH or 600w HPS, I'm thinking I may still need to vent all that heat

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I exhaust all the time, and keep my oscillating fans going all the time, and I have my intake fan put on a fan controller/thermostat, so when it gets too hot it pushes the cold air from outside, inside. Then when it gets too cold it stops doing so. It keeps the room supplied with fresh air, cools the room, and doesn't heed my exhaust/air movement within the room. I don't change this setup during the summer, I just add cooling and switch to LED, and it saves electricity/keeps my cooling from kicking on as much. But in the winter time, instead of adding an outside heat source, I find my CMH will heat my room for me, so in my case its beneficial to use during the winter months. For my climate....that setup works out pretty well.