LED vs. LED

Vansterdam

Vansterdam

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone. This is only my 3rd post, but i've been lurking for about 6 months. Of all the boards I've lurked on, I've chosen to start posting on this one...great site!!!

I've read just about every LED thread on the internet, but most are super argumentative and circle around the same issues. I have notices some momentum building towards LED's though.

I'm about to put some money down on a light setup for veg only, so I thought i would start a thread related to LED comparisons and set up. For the sake of keeping this thread clean, let's assume one would use a LED system becasue they want to, regardless of efficiency (yield or cost). Let's also assume one would use this light for both cycles, even though I'm likely to use it mostly for veg.

So here's my question to start. HTG has a 300W light that they claim is superior, due to specific ratio's and nm rating. It cost $1,300. Could a person buy 2 300W systems off of ebay (from a reputable dealer) for the same price, which is preceived lesser quality and outperform the better single panel.

E.g. 1 HTG 300W vs. 2 300 value tri-band panels (the one that most resellers are advertising 7-1-1 ratio, 630nm red)...which scenario wins? Logic tells me the 600W of inferior lighting should beat out 330W of superior lighting.

It appears to me that one could buy slightly lesser rated panels for 1/2 the cost of the preceived superior panels, but just buy a bunch more of them. I'm no light expert, as I'm sure most of those on the board are not...

Any LED pro's or knowledgeable people have on opinion on this.

Cheers!

Edited...was originally comparing LumiGrow's 330W system by mistake...not any easy comparison...
 
Vansterdam

Vansterdam

Well-Known Member
axjnkee said:
check this thread.


LumiGrow ES 600w Challenge

or this one

300w LED vs 1000w HPS Hydroton Drip Grow


dont buy any bargan shit from ebay unless its from sunshine systems, prosource, or lightblaze and most likely they wont be cheap.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm following the LumiGrow challenge, it's quite impressive. Their unit is about $1,300. I'm currious if the 300W units selling for $490 on Ebay would compare if a person were to stack 2 together? Logic tells me that even if the cheaper light were 50% as efficient, the compounding nature of stacking 2 would outperform, plus more coverage, you should be able to cover a few more plants.

So yes I agree that panel for panel, higher qualifty is better, but what if you combine the power of multiple cheaper panels for still less money???
 
Hobbes

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

Does anyone know the penetration into the canopy of these lights? The Lumigrow isn't a 300 watt light, its 58 x 5 watt lights. The penetration into the canopy is not going to be the same as with one bulb putting out that wattage. Imagine 1 measuring cup with 300 mililiters of water (~1 cup) being poured from 300 milimeters (~12") into a box of sand, and think of the hole it will make - depth & diameter. Now think about 58 measuing cups each holding 5 milimeters of water (1/50th of a cup, a teaspoon) pouring into sand from 5 milimeters (0.2 inches). One deep hole and a lot of dimples.

What is the highest wattage single LED?

Also, can we convert lumens, watts and PAR watts into PUR watts so we have the same units. Some of these companies dance around so it's difficult to compare two lights.

I want to build a starter system in the next week or two, great thread.

.

bongsmilie
 
Vansterdam

Vansterdam

Well-Known Member
Hobbes said:
.

Does anyone know the penetration into the canopy of these lights? The Lumigrow isn't a 330 watt light, its 58 x 5 watt lights. The penetration into the canopy is not going to be the same as with one bulb putting out that wattage. Imagine 1 measuring cup with 330 mililiters of water (~1 1/2 cup) being poured from 330 milimeters (~13") into a box of sand, and think of the hole it will make - depth & diameter. Now think about 58 measuing cups each holding 5 milimeters of water (1/50th of a cup, a teaspoon) pouring into sand from 5 milimeters (0.2 inches). One deep hole and a lot of dimples.

What is the highest wattage single LED?

Also, can we convert lumens, watts and PAR watts into PUR watts so we have the same units. Some of these companies dance around so it's difficult to compare two lights.

I want to build a starter system in the next week or two, great thread.

.

bongsmilie
Click to expand...
Oops...I should have said 300W, I must have gotten confused with the launch of their new 330W system, which might in fact beat out 2 cheap 300W units for light, but not price; from what i've read, it's twice as bright but, it will probably be much more than $1,300. For the sake of this thread, i'm going to do some editing...

let's compare HTG 300W...
 
Vansterdam

Vansterdam

Well-Known Member
axjnkee said:
check here.


www.prosourceworldwide.com
Click to expand...
Yes I've looked at this light...it appears to be in the premium range from the info provided. So here's my dilema; for about the same money, I could buy 3 of these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/300W-Tri-Band-LED-Hydroponic-Plant-Grow-Light-288-LEDs_W0QQitemZ170442576330QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics?hash=item27af2b51ca

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/300-w-watt-led-hydroponic-grow-lights-8-1-R-B-ON-OFF_W0QQitemZ120514452323QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f389b63

I would think that even if a bit inferior...the compounding of light and coverage would outperform a single better unit???
 
J

justthefacts

Active Member
Hobbes has a metaphor for penetration that is actually completely wrong. He insinuates that some types of light somehow have a stronger "force" than another light. That is incorrect. here is why....

Light is made of photons. They have no mass and a fixed speed. (the speed of light...whoa i heard of that! )

A "weak" source of light puts out less photons. A Stronger light puts out more photons. Photons travel the same way, regardless of how strong the source of light.

When we talk about penetration of light, we mean how much light gets to the bottom of the plant. If there is less overall light, there is less penetration.

Therefore, add enough small lights, and it has the same ability to penetrate as a large light.

make sense?
 
Hobbes

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

It makes sense JTF.

My problem was trying to bring too many variables into the analogy - the height implied a difference in photon force or speed which, as you've pointed out, doesn't exist. A better analogy would have been the erosion patterns of 300 ML of water poured in sand from one point vs 300 points where 1 ML each is poured. Not a perfect analogy but it does illustrate that more water molecules (photons) from one point will cause more erosion (photons penetrating the canopy).

"When we talk about penetration of light, we mean how much light gets to the bottom of the plant. If there is less overall light, there is less penetration."

JTF do you think that if we used spotlight LEDs (45 degree coverage) rather than flood and focused the light of many LEDs on one area, that we would get the same photon penetration of a single, higher wattage, HID?

I think we can solve the fatal flaw of LEDs (low light intensity at any one point) by focusing their light until we have the same photons directly beneath the light as with a suitable HID. A light bar the width of the garden, a reflective hood designed to focus the light directly down in a narrow strip, and a light mover.

I have a Light Rail and an 8' x 3' garden, the far ends of the garden are not in light for some time but the plants on the ends grow great. If we had a 4'x3' garden with a 3' x 6" light bar we could hit the plants with intense light.

Thoughts? Type of lights we could use? Type of reflector - will we have to build it? I'm ready to start buying parts for this endevor, but don't know the best parts. All suggestions and info will be greatly appreciated.

JTF thanks for correcting my mistake, thinking things through really helped me understand lighting better.


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/309037-solving-fatal-flaw-leds-experiment.html#post3869505

.

bongsmilie
 
Crimble

Crimble

Well-Known Member
I would always recommend to checkout Growl LED, they are a an American company out of CA, they are really nice and intelligent people who want to help and get the LED word out to everyone.

www.growlled.com
 
Vansterdam

Vansterdam

Well-Known Member
Crimble said:
I would always recommend to checkout Growl LED, they are a an American company out of CA, they are really nice and intelligent people who want to help and get the LED word out to everyone.

www.growlled.com
Click to expand...
But would one of their LED panels outperform 2 or 3 lower quality panels for the same price? 2 or 3 panels should produce more light and certainly better coverage...
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
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