legalize or decrimilize

choose your political stand (shao kahn quote)

I'm going with just decriminalize right now, that would be awesome because I wouldn't be going to court on April 12th.. I hope I'm NIH locked up for 4/20

Legalize. And Legalize Industrial Hemp. Both could be major cash crops to help the US try to bounce back.

I strongly vote legalize....decrim is just kind of silly and it doesn't solve a lot of the problems that full blown legalization would have...decrim would support criminals and give them money...it would fail to solve a lot of the problems that we have created from prohibition

Even in Amsterdam pot is technically illegal - it is decriminalized.

The problem with full legalization is that it would put the full force of the free market behind the pot industry which wouldn't be good. People need to realize how easily the public can be persuaded into doing things and accepting things. Full legalization would create a lot of new abusers and let's face it; pot can rob you of your ambition. In fact, I don't really advocate too much pot smoking. I just think people ought to be free to step on their own dick if they so choose.

I am good with people smoking in their own home if they choose, but I do think it would be detrimental to society to have advertisements for weed everywhere. No, vices are OK as long as kept on the down low. But, the public arena is no place to flaunt them. Respectable public conduct and decorum is one of the most important things in any society and standards must be upheld and respected. What people do in private is their business.

RickWhite said:

Even in Amsterdam pot is technically illegal - it is decriminalized.

The problem with full legalization is that it would put the full force of the free market behind the pot industry which wouldn't be good. People need to realize how easily the public can be persuaded into doing things and accepting things. Full legalization would create a lot of new abusers and let's face it; pot can rob you of your ambition. In fact, I don't really advocate too much pot smoking. I just think people ought to be free to step on their own dick if they so choose.

I am good with people smoking in their own home if they choose, but I do think it would be detrimental to society to have advertisements for weed everywhere. No, vices are OK as long as kept on the down low. But, the public arena is no place to flaunt them. Respectable public conduct and decorum is one of the most important things in any society and standards must be upheld and respected. What people do in private is their business.

Click to expand...

...what he said, 100%

RickWhite said:

The problem with full legalization is that it would put the full force of the free market behind the pot industry which wouldn't be good. People need to realize how easily the public can be persuaded into doing things and accepting things. Full legalization would create a lot of new abusers and let's face it; pot can rob you of your ambition.

Click to expand...

how can you be such a hypocrite? you advocate the individual's freedom of choice on one hand, then declare that the individual is incapable of properly exercising that same freedom of choice. the only question now is which circle of hell you should be assigned to.

RickWhite said:

Even in Amsterdam pot is technically illegal - it is decriminalized.

The problem with full legalization is that it would put the full force of the free market behind the pot industry which wouldn't be good. People need to realize how easily the public can be persuaded into doing things and accepting things. Full legalization would create a lot of new abusers and let's face it; pot can rob you of your ambition. In fact, I don't really advocate too much pot smoking. I just think people ought to be free to step on their own dick if they so choose.

I am good with people smoking in their own home if they choose, but I do think it would be detrimental to society to have advertisements for weed everywhere. No, vices are OK as long as kept on the down low. But, the public arena is no place to flaunt them. Respectable public conduct and decorum is one of the most important things in any society and standards must be upheld and respected. What people do in private is their business.

Click to expand...

Advertisements, something most people block out anyway, would likely be regulated under full legelazation much like tobacco and etoh advertisements...Full legalazation is the only answer...Decriminalization is an absolutely ridiculous concept when you think about it. It works in other places in the world but in the united states decrim would be potentially disasterous while going 100% legal would solve an incredible ammount of problems.

A plant has no business being "illegal", so I'm voting legalize. How you would go about regulating sales of psychoactive cannabis products is a separate matter in my mind....

Personally, I'm all for taxing the shit out of legal marijuana for sale at teh store the same way it works for booze and lottery tickets. I wouldn't be against something like the liquor stores in new hampshire, where you have to go to the state run store for anything other than beer or wine, either. As long as there is no ridiculous law that says cultivating a certain species of plant is illegal, this shouldn't be a problem for anyone willing to grow their own. If you can't or won't grow find someone who does or pay for the taxed and regulated shit at the store.

undertheice said:

how can you be such a hypocrite? you advocate the individual's freedom of choice on one hand, then declare that the individual is incapable of properly exercising that same freedom of choice. the only question now is which circle of hell you should be assigned to.

Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you are saying.

I am for freedom to do as one chooses as long as it doesn't affect others. For instance, if one wants to beat their dick like it owes them money, it is their own business. But if you do it in the middle of a restaurant, we are going to have a problem.

When we legalize something, we necessarily remove the negative stigma and place upon it a public seal of approval. And there are ample studies that show that doing so affects people's conduct.

While I do not want to see people prosecuted for smoking a joint, I do think it is best if a slight negative stigma remains. We don't want young kids thinking it is OK to smoke weed which would unquestionably happen were it fully legalized.

RickWhite said:

While I do not want to see people prosecuted for smoking a joint, I do think it is best if a slight negative stigma remains. We don't want young kids thinking it is OK to smoke weed which would unquestionably happen were it fully legalized.

Click to expand...

you can't have it both ways. can't you see that you are asking the law to micromanage morality? you are essentially saying that adults shouldn't be prosecuted for enjoying an occasional number, but we should put up with that infringement on their rights because parents might not be able to control their own children and the worst case scenario dictates that some may choose to take their freedoms too far. that's the very same mentality that keeps this insane prohibition going.

by the way, i looked it up and it seems you are destined for the sixth circle. don't worry, you'll have plenty of company.

You know its funny how people say pot robs you of your ambition. I didn't really smoke weed on a daily basis until almost 20 years had gone by since I had first used weed. Well let me tell ya, since I started smoking everyday I have accumulated more wealth than at any time in my life. I have ZERO debt, my own new home ( well 3 years old now) and a brand new mini van I picked up in October. I have 4 years personal savings in the bank, 6 figures in 401K, A nice Gun collection and enough gold and silver to last til the end of the world ( Which may be soon, LOL) I work a full time job, come home and take care of my business, clean my house and cook dinner for me and my GF. Then I get real high and start consuming information off the net. I quit watching television, I haven't gotten sick for many years now, My girl is 11 years my junior and much hotter than I deserve. I now go exercise every day and eat healthier to boot. Yep pot makes you lazy. Oh and it makes you a loser.

undertheice said:

you can't have it both ways. can't you see that you are asking the law to micromanage morality? you are essentially saying that adults shouldn't be prosecuted for enjoying an occasional number, but we should put up with that infringement on their rights because parents might not be able to control their own children and the worst case scenario dictates that some may choose to take their freedoms too far. that's the very same mentality that keeps this insane prohibition going.

by the way, i looked it up and it seems you are destined for the sixth circle. don't worry, you'll have plenty of company.

Click to expand...

You need to learn to compartmentalize. Just because you like doing something and think people ought to have a right to do it, doesn't mean it ought to be held up as an example for all to follow.

If a dietitian enjoys eating cheese cake and pizza, it doesn't mean he should recommend it as part of a proper diet.

Weed can cause significant problems for a lot of people and can be detrimental to society. Sure, some can smoke a bit and it doesn't inter fear with their life, but for others this isn't the case.

I do not want Nazi storm troopers breaking in the doors of law abiding citizens for matters as trivial as weed. But, this point of view does not also mean that I think they should sell 9 kinds of pot at your local 7-11.

Everything in life needs balance and moderation. There needs to be a yin to balance out the yang.

See what I'm saying?

RickWhite said:

You need to learn to compartmentalize. Just because you like doing something and think people ought to have a right to do it, doesn't mean it ought to be held up as an example for all to follow.
If a dietitian enjoys eating cheese cake and pizza, it doesn't mean he should recommend it as part of a proper diet.
Weed can cause significant problems for a lot of people and can be detrimental to society. Sure, some can smoke a bit and it doesn't inter fear with their life, but for others this isn't the case.
I do not want Nazi storm troopers breaking in the doors of law abiding citizens for matters as trivial as weed. But, this point of view does not also mean that I think they should sell 9 kinds of pot at your local 7-11.
Everything in life needs balance and moderation. There needs to be a yin to balance out the yang.
See what I'm saying?

Click to expand...

gee, i'm sorry. i honestly thought that if the hypocrisy of your stance was pointed out, you might at least admit the validity of the argument. obviously i was wrong. your argument is as insane as penalizing people for eating peanuts just because some folks are allergic to them. allowing people the natural right to ingest whatever substances they wish is not the same as glorifying it and permitting the sale of those substances is not the same as handing it out to everyone that asks. what you suggest is not compartmentalizing, it is rationalizing the use of totalitarian tactics for the welfare of society and is the same nonsense shoved down our throats by the liberal establishment for every other program that is supposedly for our own good. if you are a proponent of individual liberty, you can't just go around picking and choosing what sort of activities are acceptable. as long as those activities interfere with the rights of no one else, they are a matter of personal choice and of no concern to any authority. desiring anything short of that places you firmly in the same camp as the proponents of intrusive big government and mob rule, you just haven't yet realized what an enemy of liberty you really are.

undertheice said:

gee, i'm sorry. i honestly thought that if the hypocrisy of your stance was pointed out, you might at least admit the validity of the argument. obviously i was wrong. your argument is as insane as penalizing people for eating peanuts just because some folks are allergic to them. allowing people the natural right to ingest whatever substances they wish is not the same as glorifying it and permitting the sale of those substances is not the same as handing it out to everyone that asks. what you suggest is not compartmentalizing, it is rationalizing the use of totalitarian tactics for the welfare of society and is the same nonsense shoved down our throats by the liberal establishment for every other program that is supposedly for our own good. if you are a proponent of individual liberty, you can't just go around picking and choosing what sort of activities are acceptable. as long as those activities interfere with the rights of no one else, they are a matter of personal choice and of no concern to any authority. desiring anything short of that places you firmly in the same camp as the proponents of intrusive big government and mob rule, you just haven't yet realized what an enemy of liberty you really are.

Click to expand...

Once again Under the Ice nails it.

Rob Roy said:

Once again Under the Ice nails it.

Click to expand...

yes, i am gonna have to agree with ice on this one.

i never like when i think that its okay for me but others are not "smart" enough to realize the dangers...as good as me. its similar to my local law officials who i drink with at the bar then we all leave together and drive home. then tomorrow they are out busting dui's.

that may not be the best example but its whats in my head right now...as well as a snoot full of jock horror

i may seem a bit harsh on the matter, especially that last sentence, but i have never claimed to be other than the patient anarchist and the liberty of the individual is of paramount importance to such fools as i. we willingly pay the price for our follies, but demand the full reward of that risk.

undertheice said:

i may seem a bit harsh on the matter, especially that last sentence, but i have never claimed to be other than the patient anarchist and the liberty of the individual is of paramount importance to such fools as i. we willingly pay the price for our follies, but demand the full reward of that risk.

Click to expand...

yes, that last sentence was kind of "dickish"

RickWhite said:

Even in Amsterdam pot is technically illegal - it is decriminalized.

Click to expand...

Rick your statement really surprises me.

This entire re-legalization debate has been very enlightening. As re-legalization starts to become a real possibility, it troubles me to see how many different people would abandon their principles in favor of the status quo.

It is surprising enough when the garden variety cannabis user opposes re-legalization.

But when a presumed advocate of freedom and liberty opposes re-legalization and then starts parroting the anti-cannabis propaganda; that's when I know I'm not in Kansas anymore.

RickWhite said:

The problem with full legalization is that it would put the full force of the free market behind the pot industry which wouldn't be good. People need to realize how easily the public can be persuaded into doing things and accepting things. Full legalization would create a lot of new abusers and let's face it; pot can rob you of your ambition. In fact, I don't really advocate too much pot smoking. I just think people ought to be free to step on their own dick if they so choose.

Click to expand...

Putting the full-force of the free market in play for legal activity is always good. No exceptions.

What the ONDCP does not say when they use those scare tactics is that there are more cannabis users now under Prohibition than there ever were when cannabis was legal. With re-legalization, regulations will put age limits on who has legal access to cannabis. Something which does not exist currently. It's easier for a teen to get an 8th than it is for them to get a six-pack.

If things which are harmful should be prohibited, why are Big Macs legal? Face it, we all must be free to make choices. The world is fraught with peril. Making something illegal because it might harm a few people merely increases the peril.

Your last sentence in this paragraph contradicts virtually everything you stated. WTF?

RickWhite said:

I am good with people smoking in their own home if they choose, but I do think it would be detrimental to society to have advertisements for weed everywhere. No, vices are OK as long as kept on the down low. But, the public arena is no place to flaunt them. Respectable public conduct and decorum is one of the most important things in any society and standards must be upheld and respected. What people do in private is their business.

Click to expand...

Now you, RickWhite, have a problem with the First Amendment.

Who are you?

jeff f said:

yes, that last sentence was kind of "dickish"

Click to expand...

i fully accept that reprimand. baldly stating one's honest opinion is one of those follies, a risk with little reward but the satisfaction of being able to do so.