Living Soil LED Grow - Deficiencies? Light Stress?

jHands said:

Do you need to feed more? Or do you need to let the soil do it’s thing, and adjust the lights accordingly? That’s the point in living soil...

What sized footprint are you attempting to light and with what fixtures?

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getogrow said:

Im not 100% organic. I just grow in good soil. (sorry , i know the OP started with living soil and im going back to it but not yet)
I use 2x 1k to light up a 6x10 foot area. I dont have quite ebnough light so we keep it about 5x10 right now. but 6x10 is the goal. I dont have one picked out yet....its either going to be a 550 qb or a similar strip light with same diodes.. The strips seem better for my footprint.

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jHands said:

If you’re looking at QB tech, Kingbrite on Alibaba can’t be beat. They offer 240 and 320 watt boards and they’re affordable. You can get really creative with how you position boards in your room for your footprint.

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getogrow said:

i wasnt going to admit it until after i bought it but yes, kingbright is what im looking into. I seen a 600+ watt QB for about 500 to the door. I would LOVE to keep each fixture at or under the 500 range. i think i was eyeballing a 550v3 with uv and reds for 400 to the door. They have some 240 and 320 watts that are long an skinny ......maybe one of those next to the 550 to make my footprint a full 6'.

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jHands said:

Why wouldn’t you admit it? Because you don’t want to offend any of the virtue shaming guys on the board trying to guilt you into spending more money for the same product made by HLG? They aren’t you, and your budget isn’t theirs. Yes China is a shit country that mimics American products, but until America acknowledges that we are living in a globalist world and we get rid of our hubris, stuff like this will continue to happen.

I don’t see the need in buying a 550. I prefer an even footprint in the room, and the best way to get that is by buying multiple lower wattage boards. In my 7 x 11 veg room, I have 4 320’s. They do a great job and I’ve never had them above 40-50% power.

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getogrow said:

now im thinking correctly.... your right , a 550 is too much in one spot......i need more versatility. Thanks again bud!

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jHands said:

Good luck brother. Glad I could help. Forgot how different people are on the message boards vs Instagram. Might have to suspend the IG account and come back here lol.

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jHands said:

Greetings all. Been running two sealed rooms since January now. Each room has a 4x8 bed of living soil. Above each bed are 2 Progrowtech EV700 spectrally tunable fixtures. I have a 12k mini-split in each room, dehumidifier on a titan Saturn 6 controller, and Co2 supplementation on a Saturn 6 controller.

This is the soil mix I used:
1 part castings, 1 part pumice, 1 part peat
Also about 5% of the mix was biochar inoculated with fish hydrolysate

Minerals per cu ft:
2 cups cascade minerals (basalt)
1 cup oyster shell flour
1 cup Gypsum

Amended per cu ft:
1 cup kelp
1 cup MBP
1/2 cup crustacean meal
1/2 cup Karanja/neem blend

NO DOLOMITE LIME WAS ADDED.

I am only using water. Have not amended with anything other than the decomposing mulch layer and dead clover from canopy shade.

I am having great results with this soil blend outside. Great results with this soil blend indoors under T5 in my veg room. As soon as plants are established in my 4x8 beds, and the spectrums on the LED’s are being increased, I start to see issues show up. Issues start to appear when the plants go under the 4200K CMH in my veg room as well, but they don’t really ever get as bad as they do under the LED’s The issues seem to be isolated to the upper growth the most, with shaded lower growth showing healthier. Stems are also showing purple streaking on certain strains.

I’ve attached some photos. Two of them are from a room running Stardawg currently in flower, and it’s the first cycle in that bed to get out of veg. The other two photos are from a room currently in veg running Dank Zappa, showing a different issue with yellowing leaves. This bed has had two full cycles (albeit not great cycles). The only way to keep the damage at bay is the keep the fixtures further from the plants, which is not the way the fixtures were designed to be used. In veg, this is fine. But in flower, I can’t help but feel that it’s contributing to smaller bud size at this stage (week 5).

I know plenty of people running these fixtures less than a foot from the top of their canopy in a hydro/feed based environment with great results, but I’m not willing to go to hydro. I built my grow around my soil, not the light fixtures. I have the opportunity to sell them back to the manufacturer, albeit at a 20% restocking fee, because nobody over there has been able to help me figure out what my issue is. The manufacturer of the fixture doesn’t seem to have any support or experience to draw on for people cultivating in soil without salt based fertilizers/feeds.

Any help is greatly appreciated as I’m starting to lose interest in this hobby.

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4ftRoots said:

Looks like potassium to me. Try a few waters with protekt and see how she does.

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jHands said:

Good luck brother. Glad I could help. Forgot how different people are on the message boards vs Instagram. Might have to suspend the IG account and come back here lol.

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getogrow said:

Just to put it out there ....i got lucky as possible. i been researching these lights for almost a year now and with treefarmer and jhands an a few others i think im ready to purchase..... so i call a grower i know an tell him the good news and he tells me he just ordered 2 550's for 850 bucks to the door. So now i get to actually see thjem in action before buying. I'll also get to see exactly what kind of footprint hes covering. Hes also an old hps head from waaay back so thats the main reason im so happy.
The only downside to this is that his setup is slightly different then ours but i think i can factor that in without much problems. Im with you hands, i think ill go with 4-6 smaller lights vs 2- 550s.
Either way , i'll get to see the samsung diodes in action. im happy. Im also starting to see the savings in the real world vs light freaks. The real world , half the watts will grow the same as HID, thus using half the cooling. The light freaks want to see 50 watts per sqft . There is no money to save that way but im sure you could justify it somehow. (your ladies get better spec, ect...)

One more question: Too hot in my world is around 90. What is too hot in the led game? I been hovering around 80-95 ish. 87 ambiant and low 90's in the canopy. Thats not how i usually grow , i usually keep it cooler but this is a newer setup , still getting things up an running.

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jHands said:

You’ll be fine up to 85-90, strain dependent, as long as you run higher RH. I’d definitely do smaller boards and spread them out more. The 320’s are great for the money.

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kkookoo said:

I PH with blumats using a storage tank and a ph controller.

have you had your soil tested? It’s 25$ a test for a basic panel that includes most of what you need to know.

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ComfortCreator said:

Im on grow 2, and in both made my own supersoil and use strong QBs.

My experience is i can run very strong through veg by transplanting at the appropriate time. In flower using this soil, even round 2 it yellows and fades and changes colors when it wants to. Is it deficient, could it be done better? Sure no doubt. But the points earlier that hydro is different is for sure the case.

The OPs issue, without a doubt, is the most classic form of light burn you can see in pictures. How, why and what happened I dont know, but no newbie has looked at more pictures of defs than me!

After a lot of reading i realized a great thread on light intensity (w and without co2) pretty much summed it up.

In hydro, they can boost CO2, feed and temps and the only thing that happens to them is DLI light saturation and diminishing returns.

In soil tell me how to turn up the feed exactly? I dont know! Maybe it can be optimized but that was my conclusion.

Basically this - at ambient CO2 - at somewhere from 800 to 1000umols is all they can take, and past that is not just wasted light. We cant force it to grow faster like hydro. It is light bleaching and the appearance of deficiencies in a soil that is not deficient...it just cant keep up.

Now everything I just wrote could be wrong, but that is what I have figured out so...

In veg where i maintain VPD i have no issues with light burn or defiencies and transplant twice, 2nd 10 days before flip. 50k lux +

In flower the plants will fade in color, yellow, red, look pretty and scary (to a newbie) starting around week 4. Not all out faded but dramatic steps and not just gradually. My experience, limited yes, and some discussions with more experienced growers is telling me to trust nature and let the plants fade. Dont feed them extra. Dont worry it should somehow be green until the end.

Thats my 2c. Probably wrong lol

I think 800umols is likely a smart top end. So im running about 900 now lol. Many growers in the threads i read had huge harvests at 600umols. More light is good, but not as clearly with supersoil grows.

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getogrow said:

Where at ? What all do they test for? Thanks

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Lab Results

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getogrow said:

This is the type of post i need to learn the most! Your real world opinion is better then some folks facts. ALL of your reading and opinions lead me right where i need to be: Treat these new leds like im replacing a 400w with a 1k and i should be fine. (in real life im going to run 6-750 watts over a 5x6 or 1200-1500 over a 10x6..... im thinking 1200 is PLENTY)

If its only week 4 after the flip , then i get concerned when i see off colors. i dont like to see fade until week 6 of a 9 week strain. im very picky about trying to keep them green. My best tasteing , healthiest flowers always come from the greenest , healthiest plants.
For you to get 4 weeks in without needing food is great! My supersoils never made it that far. Im gonna go back to full organics , im just not ready yet.

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ComfortCreator said:

I made the entire grow last time, including a 9wk veg and 10-14wk flower with the original soil. In week 6 i did do a light topdress now that I think about it...but not much. I fed a bit of N in calmag a few times, and some big bloom a few times fumbling around. But it made it to the finish easily and was some incredible sxxx. Im sure someone can help my grow be better, mostly me lol, but results matter more than what we THINK is right.

When i first built the soil a standout comment from the soil designer was that most of the nutrients in the soil were still there at the end. That the soil could actually do a couple grows just needs a small amendment at most. I wont ever try that, but it said to me that whatever I THINK I know is happening in my grow...omg its turning colors, fading etc looks crazy to me. Newbie panic mode full on lol. But f it they are fine. Loving them too much...i.e. i have to do this and that etc is the real enemy.

Hopefully I keep dialing in better. This round they were vibrant green until the 4th week of flower, and the fade from there is in steps and kinda cool to watch in round 2 knowing they will turn out fine. I run too much light for my skillset is likely my biggest problem.

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