LUCAS FORMULA - Hydroponic Grow Journal

Hey Greenthumb, thanks for the great info in your journal. You said you used the 3-2-1 for Vegging. What exactly is the amount you gave? So the formula GMB for Lucas is normally 0 8 16 respectively for bloom. That means 0 of the grow formula, 8 ml/gallon of the Micro formula, and 16 ml/gallon of the Bloom formula. Can you give me the amount you are using? Thanks again and keep up the good work.
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
Hey Greenthumb, thanks for the great info in your journal. You said you used the 3-2-1 for Vegging. What exactly is the amount you gave? So the formula GMB for Lucas is normally 0 8 16 respectively for bloom. That means 0 of the grow formula, 8 ml/gallon of the Micro formula, and 16 ml/gallon of the Bloom formula. Can you give me the amount you are using? Thanks again and keep up the good work.
3-2-1 = 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom (parts in my case being tablespoons).

I go by ppm, not ML. When using 3-2-1 I go between 500 ppm and 800 ppm.

With Lucas I just keep adding fertilizer at 1 part micro to 2 parts bloom until the PPM hits 1300. That is 1300 with a .7 meter. On a .5 meter it is about 930 ppm.

Most meters in the US are .7 meters.
 

Holamikey

Member
Excellent journal! Great yield, man! I'm going to be using the Lucas formula under 600w indoors in a tent using all
dwc. I have one question, my tent is 32x32x63 and I was wondering, four plants, five plants or 6 plants? I was thinking one towards each corner and one in the middle. 5 gallon dwc, black buckets and tops. I'm not sure wha strain yet but it will definitely be 4 solid indicas and hopefully one sativa for headstash. Thoghts?
 

Odis

Active Member
:wall:So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !
 

derk79

Active Member
:cuss:yeah thats what i heard on that shit but as usual if it sounds to good it is!! plus that shits expensive$$$$$$$$$
:wall:So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !
 

don2009

Well-Known Member
3-2-1 = 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom (parts in my case being tablespoons).

I go by ppm, not ML. When using 3-2-1 I go between 500 ppm and 800 ppm.

With Lucas I just keep adding fertilizer at 1 part micro to 2 parts bloom until the PPM hits 1300. That is 1300 with a .7 meter. On a .5 meter it is about 930 ppm.

Most meters in the US are .7 meters.
Hey ppm is for the meter and ML is that the little glass you use for the nutes? I was thinking of using ML due to prices for the ppm meter if its cheap I will get a ppm meter you know a cheap place I can get one? Or can you explain the diffrence between ppm and ML? I'm doing flood & Drain also you said General hydro GH is good for nutes, (lucas fomula)? The 3 part series but only use the micro and bloom no grow? So I wouldnt need to buy grow? Thanks alot you really helped out a great deal.
 

Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
Hey ppm is for the meter and ML is that the little glass you use for the nutes? I was thinking of using ML due to prices for the ppm meter if its cheap I will get a ppm meter you know a cheap place I can get one? Or can you explain the diffrence between ppm and ML? I'm doing flood & Drain also you said General hydro GH is good for nutes, (lucas fomula)? The 3 part series but only use the micro and bloom no grow? So I wouldnt need to buy grow? Thanks alot you really helped out a great deal.
If using Lucas from seed, no, you don't need any FloraGro from GH.

mL are milliliters, a unit for measuring liquid volume.

PPM is short for parts per million, which is a measure of the strength of a solution.

You don't need a PPM meter when using the Lucas formula, but you should have a decent measuring device for mL.

Assuming you change yoour rez every two weeks, you'll be fine with just topping off with water in the interim and shouldn't need a PPM meter.
 

don2009

Well-Known Member
If using Lucas from seed, no, you don't need any FloraGro from GH.

mL are milliliters, a unit for measuring liquid volume.

PPM is short for parts per million, which is a measure of the strength of a solution.

You don't need a PPM meter when using the Lucas formula, but you should have a decent measuring device for mL.

Assuming you change yoour rez every two weeks, you'll be fine with just topping off with water in the interim and shouldn't need a PPM meter.
Hey thanks Bob Smith That makes since I got a shot glass with ML measurements so that should work Hey I havent seen you around often you must of harvest not to long ago:weed: lol Thanks again:-P
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
:wall:So much for no problems with the STG... The plants started off so good too.. its a BUST the stuff does not drain got the rot and now they are going to hell. i have been flushing with ro water and h202 but i dont think they will make it. i have lifted the inserts up and put some clay rocks under them hoping that will help, but not much hope. I check them 6hr after flood, lifted the top bucket to see how much would drained out, not a drop until you tip the bucket to one side and then it just runs out. the roots cant even penatrate the stuff they find there way to the sides and work down but you have a 2" layer of water at the bottom of the SURE NOT TO GROW inserts.. that will not drain at all.. back to the rocks for me!! bummer ! guess i had to try..so pissed !
One thing I really love about Hydroton is the fact that it really doesnt hold water. It gets wet but doesnt sponge it up. When the cycle ebbs, the roots are wet but they are also directly exposed to some air.

The only thing I dont like about hydroton is CLEANING it.

Here is a video on using STG with the Ebb and Grow system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-CM2-lk1Q0
 

Odis

Active Member
One thing I really love about Hydroton is the fact that it really doesnt hold water. It gets wet but doesnt sponge it up. When the cycle ebbs, the roots are wet but they are also directly exposed to some air.

The only thing I dont like about hydroton is CLEANING it.

Here is a video on using STG with the Ebb and Grow system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-CM2-lk1Q0
Yep its back to the rocks for sure! im still trying to bring them back to life. i had just started some new mothers and had already put the old ones in flower. so if there not back on track by the time the new moms are ready to give some clippings then i'll start over. lesson learned been running hygrozyme. to see if that will help but i still have to lift each bucket after a flood and set it on the bottom bucket at an angle to let the water drain out. there is enough water left in the stg that it raises the rez tank about 2" after i let them drain. and thats with 2" of rocks under the stg and with the buckets raised 1" ! I think if they would have cut the stuff the other direction it might have drained better. but im done with it, cost way to much to have a crop fail like this. ill put my effort into finding an easier way to clean the rocks from now on! LOL !
 
Hey GTS, I have a question for you. Earlier you said that you would change res every 1 -2 weeks or untill the ph would stop rising. My question is about the ph part. Why is it that the ph does stop rising? What does that signify? Thanks for the help.
 

kovo

Active Member
hey green thumb sucker have you got your next grow up and running? will you be posting a journal? i hope so pce :D
 

dmoose

Well-Known Member
The Lucas Formula uses only the Micro and Bloom parts of the General Hydroponics three part Flora series fertilizer.

The Micro and Bloom are used at a 1:2 ratio
1 part Micro
2 parts Bloom

Micro and bloom are added at this ratio until the PPM is 1300. Every 2 or 3 days the reservoir is topped off and more micro and bloom are added at the 1:2 ratio to bring the PPM back up to 1300.

Every time you top off the reservoir you zero in on the 1300 PPM number.

The PPM can drift between 1200 and 1400 PPM between top offs.

Its that simple.

Here is the 'Ask Lucas' thread from Cannabis world, you should read the whole thing:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

Here is a more detailed explanation from a thread on this site:

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom)
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6)
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12)

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients.

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora “Grow” formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen.

There are two ways to work with this formula:

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so.

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

Example:

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

Using Hard Water GH Micro

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good.

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.
Just a Quick note about LUCAS VEG FORMULA.... There is no Lucas Veg Formula! I dont know why everyone keeps repeating it over and over, because it is INCORRECT. I suffered with crazy deficiencies and Lockout from starving my plants until I finally found Lucas's Thread you posted above. Post 27 by Lucas himself states.......

" Im glad you asked about that, because Ive been meaning to talk a bit about vegetative nutes. btw, before I blaze ahead, I dont recommend 0-5-10 as a veg formula actually, I only recommend it as a low light formula.. "

I hope Noone else makes that mistake! But if nothing else, it proves you cant believe everything you read on the Forums, this one cost me dearly! I find there is no reason to sway from GH's Formula for veg. I have had success flowering with GH's 12/12 Formula (1tsp-2tsp-3tsp), and Lucas Formula (0-8ml-16ml), Both work Great!
 

LEDZEP

Active Member
Just a Quick note about LUCAS VEG FORMULA.... There is no Lucas Veg Formula! I dont know why everyone keeps repeating it over and over, because it is INCORRECT. I suffered with crazy deficiencies and Lockout from starving my plants until I finally found Lucas's Thread you posted above. Post 27 by Lucas himself states.......

" Im glad you asked about that, because Ive been meaning to talk a bit about vegetative nutes. btw, before I blaze ahead, I dont recommend 0-5-10 as a veg formula actually, I only recommend it as a low light formula.. "

I hope Noone else makes that mistake! But if nothing else, it proves you cant believe everything you read on the Forums, this one cost me dearly! I find there is no reason to sway from GH's Formula for veg. I have had success flowering with GH's 12/12 Formula (1tsp-2tsp-3tsp), and Lucas Formula (0-8ml-16ml), Both work Great!

I did the same thing, trying to veg with the lucas formula, then I switched after reading it only works as a bloom formula. I was noticing some problems so I switched, I'm glad you posted this to clear the air.
 

Str8Dank

Member
ummm just ran lucas and so did a friend with 3 different strains in ebb and grow and used it in veg and everything looked GREAT! issues came at about week 4 of flower, now i'm on to the whole House and Garden Aqua Flakes lineup...
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
ummm just ran lucas and so did a friend with 3 different strains in ebb and grow and used it in veg and everything looked GREAT! issues came at about week 4 of flower, now i'm on to the whole House and Garden Aqua Flakes lineup...
Just got back from Panama. Wife and I spent a month there. I might do another journal, just put some cuttings into the system.

House and Garden Aqua Flake? never heard of that. Do a journal on it!!
 

CLOSETGROWTH

Well-Known Member
Love the pics and it looks like you're well on your way. The only problem is, this is GreenThumbSucker's personal Grow Journal. This is a thread about HIS grow, not yours. We enjoy reading about your grow, but it would be more appropriate if you created your own journal. Thanks.
Whats the big deal smokingrubber? :-|

He's running the lucas method, let him show his single pic... Jeez. :roll:

By the way, it looks great! :)
 

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
If the thread owner is angry about someone posting pictures in his thread, let him tell the guy. He doesnt need another reader scolding another reader in his thread. He da man in this one not anyone else! :)

.......on Lucas and vegging, people commonly say that they screw up using Lucas formula for vegging. Those are the people who read page one of the thread and skipped the other 3 years worth of posts in it by Lucas. Read the whole thing and you'll notice many many updates and many changing values!
 
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