Make Liberalism Great Again

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
This election was about keeping Trump out.

They keep missing that point.

I wonder what Super Scalia 3.0 "Trump Premium Edition" pieces of shit he's gonna appoint (and saddle us with) to the Supreme Court for the rest of their (no doubt) unnaturally long life.
Click to expand...
I think you are right, Clinton ran as an alternative to Trump and we hoped that was good enough. I wasn't happy with Clinton because she was just another wealthy Democrat who was going to sustain an unacceptable status quo. But I saw her as preferable to Trump, so she had my support. "Just keeping Trump out" and "better together" didn't win, did it? What won was "its the economy stupid" which should be permanently branded on the butt of the Democratic Party's donkey.

But now, the 2016 election is so last week. The next election is in two years. I think this thread is about what the Democratic Party will look like at that time.

I'm not sure I like this guy but he is saying the right things:

Rep. Tim Ryan On Pelosi Challenge:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/18/rep_tim_ryan_on_pelosi_challenge_we_need_a_leader_who_can_represent_entire_party_win_in_oh_wi_mi.html

It's not about one segment, it's about all of us. If you look back to the progress we made as a party and as a country, you know, worker rights and civil rights, you know, the 40-hour workweek, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, go through the whole list, that was when we were all together.

Like, we hung together as a party. Black, white, Latino, middle class, poor, we were all together. And that's how we made progress. And so whoever is the head of the DNC and I believe whoever is the head of our caucus needs to represent and understand that.

Note that Tim Ryan isn't turning his back on minority groups, he's saying we are all together in this struggle.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Clinton was not a good candidate for the working classes because of her detached attitude towards our issues of decline in economic well being. Let's take this lesson but not become evil like the GOP has become towards minorities.
Click to expand...
That's the takeaway for me. Clinton was not a good candidate. Trump didnt win the election, Clinton lost it. She didnt inspire people to get out and vote like Obama did.

I agree with you on not stooping to the level that the right has. I don't believe that minorities and their issues need to be shelved. They can and should be a part of the platform. Nobody stood up against Trump and his hateful speech more than Bernie did, but he also managed to speak to the average American and their interests too.

Blaming this election on racism, or sexism is completely missing the point, and is intellectual laziness. She lost this election because she's a corporate schill that the average American dislikes.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
That's the takeaway for me. Clinton was not a good candidate. Trump didnt win the election, Clinton lost it. She didnt inspire people to get out and vote like Obama did.

I agree with you on not stooping to the level that the right has. I don't believe that minorities and their issues need to be shelved. They can and should be a part of the platform. Nobody stood up against Trump and his hateful speech more than Bernie did, but he also managed to speak to the average American and their interests too.

Blaming this election on racism, or sexism is completely missing the point, and is intellectual laziness. She lost this election because she's a corporate schill that the average American dislikes.
Click to expand...
I'd argue there was a hell of a lot of "she's gonna win anyway so it doesn't matter if I fuck around with my vote/don't vote".
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
There is plenty of room for the Democratic party to differentiate itself from the alt right GOP. These guys are going to contest for seats in congress. Meanwhile self identified one time liberals say we should hold our tongue when racists bleat their message. pfffft

White Nationalists Celebrate ‘an Awakening’ After Donald Trump’s Victory
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/us/politics/white-nationalists-celebrate-an-awakening-after-donald-trumps-victory.html?_r=0
The movement has been critical of politicians of all stripes for promoting diversity, immigration and perceived political correctness. Its critics call it a rebranded version of the Ku Klux Klan, promoting anti-Semitism, violence and suppression of minorities.

Intellectual leaders of the movement argue that they are merely trying to realize their desire for a white “ethno-state” where they can be left alone. Mr. Trump, with his divisive language about immigrants and Muslims, has given them hope that these dreams can come true.

“I never thought we would get to this point, any point close to mainstream acceptance or political influence,” said Matt Forney, 28, of Chicago. “The culture is moving more in my direction.”

Emboldened by Mr. Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party, Mr. Forney said he expected people openly associated with the white nationalist movement to run as candidates in the 2018 midterm elections. The rise of populism and the decline of political correctness, he said, present a rare opportunity.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
How would my vote in California for Clinton have mattered?
Click to expand...
With that way of thinking, why did you bother voting at all?

Padawanbater2 said:
She didn't earn my vote because she's a corporatist establishment democrat who works for corporations, not the American people
Click to expand...
And so you decided to cast a vote, which you stated earlier, doesn't matter, for a 3rd party candidate. In effect taking a vote away from Clinton, who clearly is a better choice for President than Donald Drumpf?

Sounds like you don't have much say in a political discussion.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Just because the party leadership favors a candidate doesn't mean "she cheated".

Because the leadership are, wait for this now, people too.
Click to expand...
Nobody should have been surprised when it came out that a few people in the DNC broke the rules to favor Clinton. Still, the DNC is by it's own charter, supposed to be a neutral resource for candidates. There are no excuses for what they did.

The actions of a few DNC employees did not swing the primary to Clinton and never would have, so I think it reasonable to ask why they did it?. Maybe to curry favor for a post later on?
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nobody should have been surprised when it came out that a few people in the DNC broke the rules to favor Clinton. Still, the DNC is by it's own charter, supposed to be a neutral resource for candidates. There are no excuses for what they did.

The actions of a few DNC employees did not swing the primary to Clinton and never would have, so I think it reasonable to ask why they did it?. Maybe to curry favor for a post later on?
Click to expand...
Like Clinton hiring Debbie before the dust even settled?
 
Big_Lou

Big_Lou

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
With that way of thinking, why did you bother voting at all?


And so you decided to cast a vote, which you stated earlier, doesn't matter, for a 3rd party candidate. In effect taking a vote away from Clinton, who clearly is a better choice for President than Donald Drumpf?

Sounds like you don't have much say in a political discussion.
Click to expand...
Psssssst....I think the concepts of 'the lesser of two evils' & 'teaming up for the greater good' are alien to him....
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
I'd argue there was a hell of a lot of "she's gonna win anyway so it doesn't matter if I fuck around with my vote/don't vote".
Click to expand...
Possibly. I'd argue that a candidates primary role is to articulate their message and inspire people to get out and support them. She didnt do that well enough. I think you can measure her like-ability by her opponent though. It says something when you're running against a complete douche bag like Donald Trump, and people still sat it out.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
Like Clinton hiring Debbie before the dust even settled?
Click to expand...
I figured that was to keep Wasserman under control. Did you see any benefit to DWS for her post in Clinton's campaign? It wasn't a paying position. The cherries I referred to were posts in Clinton's staff assuming she won the election.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
'Make liberalism great again'?

Jesus fucking christ, the Democrats won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presdential elections and only got 2 wins. And the 1 Republican win was incumbent Bush who shouldn't have been the incumbent in the 1st damn place.

If nobody wants to live in Bumfuck, Idaho, maybe there's a reason for that. I've said long before this election the EC sucks. It's a 18th century piece of shit. We don't need 18th century election rules. We got fucking rid of the other wonderful things from the 18th century like slavery.

Geography should have ZERO impact. Votes-votes-votes. Count them nationally like every other country with free elections does. You have congressmen/women and senators for geographical representation, as well as state and local governments. The POTUS represents the entire country, not specific geographical locations.

Somebody got almost 1.5 million more votes and has to concede because of the 18th century?

It's fucking horseshit. The world laughs at us.

And as far a where people campaign, I wish they'd stay in NY and LA. Every time they come here all it does is cause traffic jams and detours. I can watch them on TV and internet. I'd rather go watch a musical act than go to hear a political speech live. If I have to negotiate traffic and find an expensive parking space, I better be hearing some melodic guitar work and be entertained, not a speech of promises that we all really know can't be delivered without congressional approval.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
'Make liberalism great again'?

Jesus fucking christ, the Democrats won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presdential elections and only got 2 wins. And the 1 Republican win was incumbent Bush who shouldn't have been the incumbent in the 1st damn place.

If nobody wants to live in Bumfuck, Idaho, maybe there's a reason for that. I've said long before this election the EC sucks. It's a 18th century piece of shit. We don't need 18th century election rules. We got fucking rid of the other wonderful things from the 18th century like slavery.

Geography should have ZERO impact. Votes-votes-votes. Count them nationally like every other country with free elections does. You have congressmen/women and senators for geographical representation, as well as state and local governments. The POTUS represents the entire country, not specific geographical locations.

Somebody got almost 1.5 million more votes and has to concede because of the 18th century?

It's fucking horseshit. The world laughs at us.

And as far a where people campaign, I wish they'd stay in NY and LA. Every time they come here all it does is cause traffic jams and detours. I can watch them on TV and internet. I'd rather go watch a musical act than go to hear a political speech live. If I have to negotiate traffic and find an expensive parking space, I better be hearing some melodic guitar work and be entertained, not a speech of promises that we all really know can't be delivered without congressional approval.
Click to expand...
...but but but Bernie ???
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
How did they cheat?
Click to expand...
Yeah, really!

I've been a student of politics since 1964 when my dad took me with him at age 10 to watch him vote for LBJ. Politics has always been 'dirty' to a degree. It's pretty damn OBVIOUS which party has historically taken better care of the middle class. If you turned your nose up at that party, and you're middle class, don't bitch the next 4 years.

No 1% billionaire who talks and lies like Trump will EVER give a shit about you after election day.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
With that way of thinking, why did you bother voting at all?
Click to expand...
Prop 64, the end of the death penalty and fuck Citizens United
see4 said:
And so you decided to cast a vote, which you stated earlier, doesn't matter, for a 3rd party candidate. In effect taking a vote away from Clinton, who clearly is a better choice for President than Donald Drumpf?
Click to expand...
That's why I cast it for someone other than Clinton; because it didn't matter. And look, I was right, CA went to Clinton without my vote. Still waiting for you to explain to the rest of us how that "took a vote away from Clinton".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top