peter parker
Well-Known Member
im hoping someone can explain to me what F1, F2, ... etc means im getting ready to order some seeds and i need more info to choose. Thx 
Meaning of F1 - F5 ?
- Thread starter peter parker
- Start date
email468
Well-Known Member
Can't vouch for the accuracy but I found this:
HYBRID
By crossing two not related plants you will create a hybrid. These newly created plants are called F1. If the F1 plants are backcrossed to the mother then their offspring often will be called F2. Also F1 crossings between brothers and sisters are called F2 and sometimes even crossings between F1 plants of different lines are called F2. I presume however that, in most cases when breeders are talking about a F6, they mean by this that the plant was backcrossed for 6 generations, this to reinforce the properties of the mother. But be aware, this plant will probably not be stable. Even not if it is a F20. What you best can do is to select the plants that you like the most and use their clones for growing and blooming.
THE STRENGTH OF THE HYBRID (HYBRID VIGOR)
With "HYBRID VIGOR" is meant something like the strength of the hybrid. This is however only the case with a crossing of two stable plant lines (the plant is then on important properties homozygous and therefore true breeding). The F1 plants that you produce in this way will be all identical and very strong. Because of this, an enormous improvement on certain characteristics can arise. So it can be for example that these F1 plants grow much more rapidly or produce bigger buds then their parents. Another advantage of this F1 is that all plants will be identical. Selection of the best plants is of course not needed anymore. The strength of the hybrid will however decrease if you go on with breeding. A F2 is therefore qualitatively lesser then the F1. This because of the recessive alleles that nicely hided in the F1 and can come forward in the F2. Furthermore the offspring of F1 plants will no longer be identical.
Here: ENOBLING - BREEDING - F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, Weed Cannabis Grass Pot Marihuana Marijuana Hemp Seed Seeds
HYBRID
By crossing two not related plants you will create a hybrid. These newly created plants are called F1. If the F1 plants are backcrossed to the mother then their offspring often will be called F2. Also F1 crossings between brothers and sisters are called F2 and sometimes even crossings between F1 plants of different lines are called F2. I presume however that, in most cases when breeders are talking about a F6, they mean by this that the plant was backcrossed for 6 generations, this to reinforce the properties of the mother. But be aware, this plant will probably not be stable. Even not if it is a F20. What you best can do is to select the plants that you like the most and use their clones for growing and blooming.
THE STRENGTH OF THE HYBRID (HYBRID VIGOR)
With "HYBRID VIGOR" is meant something like the strength of the hybrid. This is however only the case with a crossing of two stable plant lines (the plant is then on important properties homozygous and therefore true breeding). The F1 plants that you produce in this way will be all identical and very strong. Because of this, an enormous improvement on certain characteristics can arise. So it can be for example that these F1 plants grow much more rapidly or produce bigger buds then their parents. Another advantage of this F1 is that all plants will be identical. Selection of the best plants is of course not needed anymore. The strength of the hybrid will however decrease if you go on with breeding. A F2 is therefore qualitatively lesser then the F1. This because of the recessive alleles that nicely hided in the F1 and can come forward in the F2. Furthermore the offspring of F1 plants will no longer be identical.
Here: ENOBLING - BREEDING - F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, Weed Cannabis Grass Pot Marihuana Marijuana Hemp Seed Seeds
peter parker
Well-Known Member
so which is better an F1 or a an F6? lower number or higher?
gardenandcats
Well-Known Member
F1 crosses
dankbeats420
Member
This is taken from Plainsman1963 from marijuana.com.
"Ok, here we go.
First you have to understand IBL's. In Bred Lines. These are strains that have been inbred (mother to son, daughter to father,) for many generations to get stable traits.
Original Thai, Columbian gold, Skunk and Northern Lights to name a few.
When you breed two of these strains, the hybrid that results is the first filial generation...F1.
F1's are usually very stable and usually great weed because they have the dominant genes from both parents.
Breed two F1's and you get F2 seeds, and so on and so forth. Each successive filial generation would be less stable and also more prone to show recessive (undesirable or unforeseen) genes or traits.
Hope this helped,
Plains"
"Ok, here we go.
First you have to understand IBL's. In Bred Lines. These are strains that have been inbred (mother to son, daughter to father,) for many generations to get stable traits.
Original Thai, Columbian gold, Skunk and Northern Lights to name a few.
When you breed two of these strains, the hybrid that results is the first filial generation...F1.
F1's are usually very stable and usually great weed because they have the dominant genes from both parents.
Breed two F1's and you get F2 seeds, and so on and so forth. Each successive filial generation would be less stable and also more prone to show recessive (undesirable or unforeseen) genes or traits.
Hope this helped,
Plains"
kneecapman
Well-Known Member
That works for me
I get my tongue twisted a few times a year trying to explain this to someone. Damn, this is pretty much as simply put as I think anyone can make it props!cornbread329
Member
I know this is an old thread but most of the information is wrong! F1 - F6 is not a measure of good to bad. F1 is the result of crossing 2 separate breeds. The resulting seeds are now consider F1 and they will be stable, meaning the plant qualities should be pretty much uniform crop. All the plants from these seeds will be very similar. This is good if you just want a crop that is all the same.
F2 is a cross of 2 of your F1 plants from the seeds you bred. F2 is what true breeders are looking for. The F2 seeds are unstable meaning the plants grown can show very different qualities, some may be good while others are bad. The F2 seeds can contain all the possiblities of phenotypes from all of the previous lineages of both parents. F2's are where you will find the next great strains which is what true breeders are consistantly trying do along with producing stable seeds for its consumers.
Once that special F2 plant is found you will need to cross it with another F2 from the same seed batch. This plant then needs to be crossed back with your special F2. The seeds from this, called F3 will be unstable and may not produce your special F2 consistantly. To stabilize your new Breed(The special F2 you found) you now grow out F3 seeds and pick one of these to back cross with your F2 mother. The resulting seeds from this will be an F4 and more stable then F3 seeds. You continue this process to about an F6 ,by this time the F6 seeds should be stable and closely resemble your new breed F2 that you found. This strain is now your creation of a new breed. It takes patience and some time to find and stabilize a new breed but it is rewarding even if you just find a new F2 breed and take it no further. I had Dutch Passion White Widow several years back and found an F2 that was by far the best white widow I've ever seen and possibly one of the best strains I have ever smoked. Unfortunately I didn't know about stabilizing the strain at the time and I lost it forever after a couple years after the 2009 harvest .
Happy Breeding Fellow Botanists!
F2 is a cross of 2 of your F1 plants from the seeds you bred. F2 is what true breeders are looking for. The F2 seeds are unstable meaning the plants grown can show very different qualities, some may be good while others are bad. The F2 seeds can contain all the possiblities of phenotypes from all of the previous lineages of both parents. F2's are where you will find the next great strains which is what true breeders are consistantly trying do along with producing stable seeds for its consumers.
Once that special F2 plant is found you will need to cross it with another F2 from the same seed batch. This plant then needs to be crossed back with your special F2. The seeds from this, called F3 will be unstable and may not produce your special F2 consistantly. To stabilize your new Breed(The special F2 you found) you now grow out F3 seeds and pick one of these to back cross with your F2 mother. The resulting seeds from this will be an F4 and more stable then F3 seeds. You continue this process to about an F6 ,by this time the F6 seeds should be stable and closely resemble your new breed F2 that you found. This strain is now your creation of a new breed. It takes patience and some time to find and stabilize a new breed but it is rewarding even if you just find a new F2 breed and take it no further. I had Dutch Passion White Widow several years back and found an F2 that was by far the best white widow I've ever seen and possibly one of the best strains I have ever smoked. Unfortunately I didn't know about stabilizing the strain at the time and I lost it forever after a couple years after the 2009 harvest .
Happy Breeding Fellow Botanists!
blowincherrypie
Well-Known Member
Kinda.. But not really.. Cornbread had it bout right.
brick20
Well-Known Member
The F1, F2, F3 ... means generations of offspring, not clones.
A clone would be the same as whatever class it's in, i.e. same plant.
Glen_732
New Member
For crosses you have parents (P) and offspring (Filial generations) F1 = children of parents, F2 = grandchildren, F3 = great grandchildren, etc.
At its simplest, vegetable varieties have two sets of chromosomes, one from each parent. The forms of these genes (alleles) can either be the same (homozygouse) or different (heterozygous -e.g.regular leaf/potatoleaf), one type of allele often dominates/masks other forms (regular leaf form masks potato leaf form). Genetically stable open pollinated (self pollinating) varieties have homozygous genes so all of the offspring generations will be identical to the parent generation... i.e. they are genetically stable.
Horticulturally speaking, a hybrid is an F1 having parents of two different varieties, and is thus heterozygous at many genes. When that plant self pollinates creating F2 seeds/plants those seeds/plants are no longer hybrids, but they still have a mix of genes from the parent plants and those genes start to form new combinations.
Parent = potatoleaf X parent = regular leaf --> F1 Regular leaf (with RL+PL allels). F1's offspring (F2) = RL+RL, RL+PL, RL+PL, PL+PL.
So if you grow out seed from a hybrid variety you will get gene segregation for all of the genes that were heterozygous in that hybrid (color, leaf type, flavor components etc.)
Yes, F1 hybrids are often more vigorous than their open pollinated parents, but not always.
What is confusing is that biologicaly speaking, a hybrid is the offspring of two different species (Lion x Tiger) and all progeny (F1>>>>F100) will remain hybrids. In most cases this type of cross does not work because the genetic combinations are incompatible either directly (embryo cannot develop), or indirectly (the hybrid offspring get outcompeted by the parent species and cannot form a continuing population) Horticulturally we almost never see biogical hybrids for vegetables (the apricot x prune is one exception) even broccoli x cauliflower = broccoflower is not a biological hybrid because all of the Kale vegetables are of the same species.
At its simplest, vegetable varieties have two sets of chromosomes, one from each parent. The forms of these genes (alleles) can either be the same (homozygouse) or different (heterozygous -e.g.regular leaf/potatoleaf), one type of allele often dominates/masks other forms (regular leaf form masks potato leaf form). Genetically stable open pollinated (self pollinating) varieties have homozygous genes so all of the offspring generations will be identical to the parent generation... i.e. they are genetically stable.
Horticulturally speaking, a hybrid is an F1 having parents of two different varieties, and is thus heterozygous at many genes. When that plant self pollinates creating F2 seeds/plants those seeds/plants are no longer hybrids, but they still have a mix of genes from the parent plants and those genes start to form new combinations.
Parent = potatoleaf X parent = regular leaf --> F1 Regular leaf (with RL+PL allels). F1's offspring (F2) = RL+RL, RL+PL, RL+PL, PL+PL.
So if you grow out seed from a hybrid variety you will get gene segregation for all of the genes that were heterozygous in that hybrid (color, leaf type, flavor components etc.)
Yes, F1 hybrids are often more vigorous than their open pollinated parents, but not always.
What is confusing is that biologicaly speaking, a hybrid is the offspring of two different species (Lion x Tiger) and all progeny (F1>>>>F100) will remain hybrids. In most cases this type of cross does not work because the genetic combinations are incompatible either directly (embryo cannot develop), or indirectly (the hybrid offspring get outcompeted by the parent species and cannot form a continuing population) Horticulturally we almost never see biogical hybrids for vegetables (the apricot x prune is one exception) even broccoli x cauliflower = broccoflower is not a biological hybrid because all of the Kale vegetables are of the same species.
Super Silverback
Member
What glen there said made me understand it in my way of thinking thank you
randallb
Well-Known Member
bump
