medical - wrong way?

chewy*barber

chewy*barber

shawarma king
Just musing…

I think medical marijuana is an indefensible position for legalization.

It is a shame then in my opinion that the marijuana community has embraced medical marijuana in the hopes it might bring about legalization.

I’m not convinced a legalization brought about by the medical marijuana movement would be anything like what is hoped for by so many proponents.

It would be interesting, if instead of pushing medical marijuana, one simply exercised their liberty to ingest any o’le damn thing they want – laymen’s…

I realize this is only rhetoric. I thought I’d throw some fuel out there and if it takes off who knows, maybe we can add some sustenance to the conversation.
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
chewy*barber said:
Just musing…

I think medical marijuana is an indefensible position for legalization.
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Ok lets take a look at what the position is, do you have any idea what it is. You know this 'indefensible Position' What do you think it is??

It is a shame then in my opinion that the marijuana community has embraced medical marijuana in the hopes it might bring about legalization.
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If that were true Medical Marijuana would still be the right thing to do.

I’m not convinced a legalization brought about by the medical marijuana movement would be anything like what is hoped for by so many proponents.
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Ok so what is that? How do you see this legalization being done.

It would be interesting, if instead of pushing medical marijuana, one simply exercised their liberty to ingest any o’le damn thing they want – laymen’s…

I realize this is only rhetoric. I thought I’d throw some fuel out there and if it takes off who knows, maybe we can add some sustenance to the conversation.
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Yes maybe we can. Lets try. Here is my position on it. I have a plan, a Salesmans kind of plan, how to legalize Marijuana. Problem is most folks don't understand anything about marijuana. Polls taken and paid for by folks that are willing and able to put their money were there mouth is show that the majority of folks in the poll favor some form of medical Marijuana when prescribed by a Doctor.
A majority do not favor legalization. Why should any person have to be in pain any longer than necessary? Its about compassion for sick and dying patients. What part of that is so undefendable??

No one I know that supports Medical Marijuana thinks it is going to 'bring legalization'. Did you notice that in this Presidental Campaign every candidate has been forced to gve some kind of answer about Medical marijuana. Do you understand how long we have waited for the federal government to admit their opposition is based on Lies, Damned Lies. Of course you don't or you would understand why we must actively support Medical MJ.
Did you notice that in local election MJ was made low priority with oversite plans. Of course those States may have Medical MJ already.
You provided the fuel. Now there is some substance in the thread as well. VV
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chewy*barber

chewy*barber

shawarma king
I'm sorry VV, i should have been more clear.

Marijuana as a medicine is defensible.

However, I don't think that the argument for medical marijuana should be the same used for the legalization of marijuana.

I hope that clears up some misunderstandings. I'll post more later, as the topic deserves real thought. :-)
 
shamegame

shamegame

Well-Known Member
chewy*barber said:
Just musing…

I think medical marijuana is an indefensible position for legalization.

It is a shame then in my opinion that the marijuana community has embraced medical marijuana in the hopes it might bring about legalization.

I’m not convinced a legalization brought about by the medical marijuana movement would be anything like what is hoped for by so many proponents.

It would be interesting, if instead of pushing medical marijuana, one simply exercised their liberty to ingest any o’le damn thing they want – laymen’s…

I realize this is only rhetoric. I thought I’d throw some fuel out there and if it takes off who knows, maybe we can add some sustenance to the conversation.
Click to expand...
I don't see how you would try to connect medical marijuana to the total legalization of pot. It is not a step in that direction. The medical marijuana initiatives are a stand-alone issue. Personally, I would love to see a program where anyone in a given state can buy an annual license. to grow their own green ( with reasonable limits ). This would stop the rash of growers who get medical refferals just to cover their grow. They are going to bring problems for all the people who really need it. LEO is noticing what is going on, and the belt will be tightened.

But that is not likely going to be a reality anytime soon. The unconditional legalization of marijuana would hurt too many established markets. The pharma industry would be devistated in their poison pill sales; The alcohol industry would be heavily effected.The synthetic fabric and cotton industries would be brought to their knees. The companies producing food for livestock would be impacted as the marijuana seeds can be used as feed for most animals including humans. The list goes on and on.

So you are fighting an enemy that has hundreds of billions of dollars in profits to protect. They in turn pay off congress to keep MJ illegal and on the run.

In short, It will be a loooong time before our dream is realized.
 
Lacy

Lacy

New Member
Although I don't like this guy,:-| he's right.
shamegame said:
I don't see how you would try to connect medical marijuana to the total legalization of pot. It is not a step in that direction. The medical marijuana initiatives are a stand-alone issue. Personally, I would love to see a program where anyone in a given state can buy an annual license. to grow their own green ( with reasonable limits ). This would stop the rash of growers who get medical refferals just to cover their grow. They are going to bring problems for all the people who really need it. LEO is noticing what is going on, and the belt will be tightened.

But that is not likely going to be a reality anytime soon. The unconditional legalization of marijuana would hurt too many established markets. The pharma industry would be devistated in their poison pill sales; The alcohol industry would be heavily effected.The synthetic fabric and cotton industries would be brought to their knees. The companies producing food for livestock would be impacted as the marijuana seeds can be used as feed for most animals including humans. The list goes on and on.

So you are fighting an enemy that has hundreds of billions of dollars in profits to protect. They in turn pay off congress to keep marijuana illegal and on the run.

In short, It will be a loooong time before our dream is realized.
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Lacy

Lacy

New Member
No Problem Shamegame. I know you feel strongly about it but its all over. (couldn't resist the comment) :-|I'm a very opinionated person myself so can relate. You 're obviously an intelligent man and I'm sure we have more in common than not. I'm sorry also and I actually do commend you on your volunteer work.
Truce?

Thanks for the acknowledgement Shamegame. I really do appreciate it.:hug::grin:
shamegame said:
Thanks. Sorry I gave you such a hard time about the medical thing.It is an issue that I obviously feel strongly about, but I really took a wrong turn somewhere.:peace:
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giagemgal

giagemgal

Well-Known Member
Your points are very good and you definately have merit in your arguments.

I as a Medical Patient feel used quite frankly. You are completely right. Alchohol leads to so many bad mistakes and death quite often. Weed leads to love and happiness and just being mellow and not ONE single death. Stop using us sick people to get what you want....how about working all together???

Well, you know, if we were smart people...we might just figure out that someone mixed up the tablets. Can we pick again????




chewy*barber said:
Just musing…

I think medical marijuana is an indefensible position for legalization.

It is a shame then in my opinion that the marijuana community has embraced medical marijuana in the hopes it might bring about legalization.

I’m not convinced a legalization brought about by the medical marijuana movement would be anything like what is hoped for by so many proponents.

It would be interesting, if instead of pushing medical marijuana, one simply exercised their liberty to ingest any o’le damn thing they want – laymen’s…

I realize this is only rhetoric. I thought I’d throw some fuel out there and if it takes off who knows, maybe we can add some sustenance to the conversation.
Click to expand...
 
chewy*barber

chewy*barber

shawarma king
"The medical marijuana initiatives are a stand-alone issue."

I agree, absolutely, and again that is why I think it is a shame that the marijuana community is embracing medical marijuana as the legitimate front against prohibition (I don't think that is an accident either).

I understand they are two related yet different issues.
 
closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
VictorVIcious said:
Do you understand how long we have waited for the federal government to admit their opposition is based on Lies, Damned Lies.VV
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true, so true. but they've never lied about this war. :roll:

sorry about the hijack. it just seemed so obvious. :peace:

but i do agree that the majority of citizens should be concerned with the compansionate care of those suffering. MM DOES help, and far better then any manufactured drug of big corporations.

amazing that an enlightened society has to put up with this bullshit from those in power making money off its prohibition, i have no doubt.

IMO, before and regardless of whether they lift prohibition for social smokers, MM should be given to patients who are suffereing.
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
shamegame said:
I don't see how you would try to connect medical marijuana to the total legalization of pot. It is not a step in that direction. The medical marijuana initiatives are a stand-alone issue.
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I disagree, even though it's presented as a stand a lone issue it's not. I say that because the "pot is evil and dangerous" label is slapped on every kind of use, so the idea is if mmj can get politicians to seriously reexamine their views on the medical use then perhaps with a little more nudging they'll reexamine it entirely.
 
shamegame

shamegame

Well-Known Member
Kant said:
I disagree, even though it's presented as a stand a lone issue it's not. I say that because the "pot is evil and dangerous" label is slapped on every kind of use, so the idea is if mmj can get politicians to seriously reexamine their views on the medical use then perhaps with a little more nudging they'll reexamine it entirely.
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Not saying you are wrong, but just looking at other examples, such as perscription drugs. Take Oxycotton. It is legal for medical use, but it highly controlled, and will never be legal in the sense we are talking about. Same for many other drugs that can help ( and hurt ).

That being said, our best argument for outright legalization is the direct comparison to alcohol which is currently legal and much more dangerous.Force the alcohol industry to either admit that both marijuana and alcohol should be legal, or take the alcohol industry with us into the depths of illegality :mrgreen:.
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
chewy*barber said:
I'm sorry VV, i should have been more clear.
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There is a difference between not being clear and being wrong, IMHO.

Marijuana as a medicine is defensible.
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That is an accurate statement.

However, I don't think that the argument for medical marijuana should be the same used for the legalization of marijuana.
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Thats good because they are different arguments and in case I didn't make myself clear, They are different arguments.
I hope that clears up some misunderstandings. I'll post more later, as the topic deserves real thought. :-)
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I didn't think there was any misunderstanding. Iwas simple telling you first of all I understand your argument, if I didn't I couldn't have responded the way I did, since you say you didn't make it clear. Second, I don't agree with the statemnets you made because they are wrong. Third, I told you you need to give it more thought. Ohhh.. geuss I made that clear. But that doesn't mean I don't like you....... Yet. VV
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chewy*barber

chewy*barber

shawarma king
"Why should any person have to be in pain any longer than necessary? Its about compassion for sick and dying patients. What part of that is so undefendable??"

Obviously some misunderstanding VV, as I never said medical marijuana was indefensible. Yet here you are asking me why I think it is...well, sometimes we call that a strawman, but in this case I really think you just misunderstood me.

I am assuming you disagree with my assertion that medical marijuana is an indefensible position for legalization. But, it also seems you disagree with my other assertion that the medical marijuana movement has in fact become the front of legalization efforts. Is that fair, is that what you disagree with?

"But that doesn't mean I don't like you....... Yet. VV"

???
 
Smoke133

Smoke133

Well-Known Member
First off people should just take a good hit...
OK
Well I think people should look at their laws for their state/county/city because in my county you can have less than an ounce on you and as long as there is no evidence to sell the cops basically write you a $15 parking ticket. Now I'm not saying it's legal but this law was introduced a couple years ago, so it's a step forward in a good direction :) Just talkin out loud :blsmoke:
 
Kant

Kant

Well-Known Member
shamegame said:
Not saying you are wrong, but just looking at other examples, such as perscription drugs. Take Oxycotton. It is legal for medical use, but it highly controlled, and will never be legal in the sense we are talking about. Same for many other drugs that can help ( and hurt ).

That being said, our best argument for outright legalization is the direct comparison to alcohol which is currently legal and much more dangerous.Force the alcohol industry to either admit that both marijuana and alcohol should be legal, or take the alcohol industry with us into the depths of illegality :mrgreen:.
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you have a good point but you can't reexamine one use without considering the other. If politicians do take a serious look at the medical use they can't without looking at the benefits and the consequences. If they do decide that the medical benefit out weighs the cost, then clearly it's not as dangerous then previously thought so then what about general use? I'm not saying that it will open the doors for general use but it will certainly get the ball rolling.
 
shamegame

shamegame

Well-Known Member
Kant said:
you have a good point but you can't reexamine one use without considering the other. If politicians do take a serious look at the medical use they can't without looking at the benefits and the consequences. If they do decide that the medical benefit out weighs the cost, then clearly it's not as dangerous then previously thought so then what about general use? I'm not saying that it will open the doors for general use but it will certainly get the ball rolling.
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I can't argue with that. You are right in saying that misconceptions can be changed from positive data from the medical effort. It very well could help it become legal in the future.
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
I think it's a matter of ending the prohibition. The 2 primary problems in my view are:
1: when marijuana was not illegal it was also not taxed and regulated by the government.

2. Socially, marijuana has been demonized for generations.

So legalization would create a burden on society... I can explain more later if there is any interest ;)
 
iblazethatkush

iblazethatkush

Well-Known Member
silk said:
So legalization would create a burden on society
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I would have to disagree. I think it would help society a great deal. The money alone would be a good enough reason to do it( Weed is mulit-million dollar crop). Plus the amount of jail and court costs alone would save the country millions. Cops could spend more time going after real criminals. There's plenty more, These are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head.
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
iblazethatkush said:
I would have to disagree. I think it would help society a great deal. The money alone would be a good enough reason to do it( Weed is mulit-million dollar crop). Plus the amount of jail and court costs alone would save the country millions. Cops could spend more time going after real criminals. There's plenty more, These are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head.
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You must be a true pothead. Can't see the other side of the coin...:blsmoke::mrgreen:
Can you really not see any problems at all?
 
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