Beaches Compassion
Active Member
The search is on for commercial/industrial zoned suitable property in the GTA! It will be nice to have an address for the LP application
MMPR - Medium Size Grow - GTA
- Thread starter Beaches Compassion
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redi jedi
Well-Known Member
I doubt you would be able to do any better on those fees. Regulatory compliance fees can not be negotiated. Similar to getting a liquor license for a bar. Its the price of doing business...
bigmanc
Well-Known Member
There isnt anything listed for fees but i would actually put 300k at the low end. I hope you understand its not just get lights, put plants under and deliver dope. You need to have man(dedicated security 24hr) and monitor security, i believe you need local authorities to sign off (saw this somewere) you need your product tested, you need to have a complete sterile environment(good luck) you need everyone to have criminal background checks, you need to build relations with pharmacies and doctors, your building must meet code with electrical,ventilation and air quality, your grow cant cause any negative environmental effects, your electricity must be properly installed and toronto hydro notified. You need to set up your own business and tax account, you need to set up employees with CCP and EI deductions on there registered pay checks, the owner of the building better be ready to lose the shirt off his back if something goes wrong, the list just goes on endless what you will have to do to get up and going under new regulation. You need to understand, when dealing with marijuana you cant trust anyone, this is proven daily. Health canada wont back you i doubt they will even act on your behalf for any reason, Why would the government change legislation and throw in the towel on a garentee money grab? liability. you thought 300k was alot, put that number above 1mil to have a decent set up, you cant go cheap and grab some magnetic wire it up DIY ballasts and run a grow responsable for supplying a army. High dreams low budget, were all with ya in heart
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
While I agree you wont get this off the ground on a low budget. I dont think it will take millions of dollars. Maybe just 1/2 to 3/4 million...lol... for an operation big enough to cover those fees and still put bank in your pocket. Getting the most yield from space available will be crucial.
You mentioned needing manned security, this is not true. But the security system does need to be monitored 24/7 and the monitors need to be able to take appropriate action (call the police) once an alarm is received. You'll also need a safe to store dried product in.
Local Authorities do need to be notified, but they dont actually sign-off on anything. I've already contacted my municipality and police department regarding this. The only thing the municipality would need to confirm is zoning bylaws are adhere to and the building meets all building codes.
Sterile environment in regards to the food and drug act. Which has "acceptable levels of micro-biological contamination". I have no clue how ecoli or salmonella could every get on your buds..well maybe if you take a shit and dont wash your hands, then go play in the garden. But I dont think it will be a major concern. I think a true organic grow might have problems with this.
Long story short, It will take considerable investment but far from impossible. The biggest question/concern I have is, will you have the customers you need?
Beaches Compassion
Active Member
Now that this is going to be a regulated industry, There will be Venture Capital, Silent Partners, Partners, Investors - When you are opening any new business, raising fundings to start up is always part of the process, unless you are independently wealthy.
I have a background in Employee Relations, so EI, CPP and all that jazz I do in my sleep now, payroll taxes, hiring, background checks, etc. No where in the regulations do they say they are handing out limited licences, so from what I read - anyone who can pass the security background checks (hubby/wifey included) and put a proper plan together should be able to move forward. Just like someone opening up a bar and who wants to apply for a liquor lic.
Anyone who has serious interest, PM me. I live in the GTA so plan on setting up shop either East GTA or North GTA depending on where I can find a suitable location. The hunt is on!
I have a background in Employee Relations, so EI, CPP and all that jazz I do in my sleep now, payroll taxes, hiring, background checks, etc. No where in the regulations do they say they are handing out limited licences, so from what I read - anyone who can pass the security background checks (hubby/wifey included) and put a proper plan together should be able to move forward. Just like someone opening up a bar and who wants to apply for a liquor lic.
Anyone who has serious interest, PM me. I live in the GTA so plan on setting up shop either East GTA or North GTA depending on where I can find a suitable location. The hunt is on!
maximum
Active Member
There is no $300k fee.
And if you say there is $300k in setup fees, please post your math. If we where on a porn site, and you claimed your a super hot chick, I would say, pics or get the fuck out. Here I will say, show us the math dude. Who am I cutting a 300k check to? If you say the cost of compliance is $300k I would disagree strongly. I dont need $300k to be up to code. Im up to code at my current grow. Didnt cost me that much. All those things you listed like security, please put a $ amount on it. Then lets add it up. Lets not lose our heads here. The government wants us to run this like a legit business. They are not asking for anything too unreasonable here.
redi jedi touched on the other points nicely. I agree with him. Not sure I agree with the $ break down since nobody has actually done the math. Just thrown random numbers out there.
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
When I first heard of the new regs, I began planning an operation. My plan included buying the location (1500sqft industrial unit). In that unit I wanted to build 2 sealed 30kw flower rooms. One 10kw veg room, a cloning room with flouro lighting and a dedicated drying room. All rooms except the flower rooms would be negative pressure. All lighting would be air cooled except clone room.
The whole unit would need to be air conditioned and each flower room would need an independent A/C and dehumidifier. Then theres the cost to build four separate RDWC units with 30 sites each. Also two more 30 site RDWC units for the veg room. Also two 1hp and four 2hp water chillers.
All this would cost roughly 250k. And I haven't even addressed the security system yet. After hearing of those compliance fees, I'm now thinking two 50kw flower rooms. Which means a bigger location and more/bigger of everything else.
maximum
Active Member
How much did you estimate is the real estate price to purchase? Does that include down payment or the price of the unit as a whole? Mortgaged? We have lots of wiggle room with the real estate. Location, mortgage, lease, etc...
60 lights for flower total right? $6k
Air cooled hoods ( I get them $100 each, you?) $6k
10 lights for veg: $1k
ballasts $175 is what I pay, what are you using? $175 x 40 lights = $7000 (assuming you get a flip for the flowering rooms)
clone room what kind of lighting?
inline fans: depends again , how did you configure and plan for how many fans? how big?
carbon filters:
are you doing environmental monitoring/controlls/ switches/ smaller equipment?
Total: $21k so far but we are missing lots of fans and other gadgets.
dry room: How did you do the math on her?
carbon filter?:
racks?
how will you get the humidty up?
Your planning on an a/c dehum for each room even clone room? Lets say your 3 HID light rooms need the cooling. How much did you figure? Those big huge units can get really expensive. But we can do it efficient too. Like you said your using air cooled tubes so thats smart already and saves you on an AC. I say we have some wiggle room here because we can do creative things with air. What did you have planned?
RDWC Setup:
So each flowering room would have 60 plants right?
And the veg room has 60 too right?
180 plants so 180 buckets setup. How much is each bucket for you to make. Lets say $13 each? Thats what I pay. You?, so that would be $13 x 180 = $2340 Plus you need 6 big reservoirs? How much is each?
pumps?
airstones? I pay for them in 12 packs. It comes to $1.3. Lets roll with that, You can do better if you buy 180 lol. $239
Monthly Fees: electric bill, are you getting staff right away?, certain staff can wait until down the road. How did you plan the monthly expenditures like nutrients and stuff. I know nutrients can be huge expense. I use Jacks professional and it lasts me fuck.... almost a year for $140 shipped. And I have a fair sized setup.
So far we didnt hit $25k. Lets say you get another $30k from the other things? Im just guessing so we have something to see here. Waiting for you to fill out info. That takes us to $55k in setup equipment assuming your starting fresh. Not with any existing equipment.
So your setup so far is a big bill to give anyone. But its a fairly large setup. 70 lights. Bigger than most home grows at the moment. What you think the average is today, like 30? 20? 10? I think you could do it cheaper than $250k. The real estate has to be whats eating up the bill right?
Do you already have existing equipment? I know I was planning on just using my current setup and transition into mmpr. So all the equipment costs for my setup are already paid and invested in. But my setup is much smaller than a 70 lighter. I do plan on scaling up once I get my foot in the door. And growing slow. But this is fun now. Now we can break down numbers and refine certain areas and get creative. I mean for me, its all about staying legal. I know some of you fellas have a serious budget and are going to just go all out.
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
Ya... buying the location outright is a big purchase. Obviously you could rent or lease. Mortgages are still cheap. When I say 250k, I'm figuring 150 to buy and 100k to build. I pay roughly the same as you and I would be doing most the work myself.
There's so many little nickle and dime stuff people forget about when planning a build. Take the lights, about $20k to buy but they still need to be hung. Those yo-yos are $20/pair x 70 = 1400 at retail. Also, 140 eye hooks and 140 S-hooks @.50cents = $140. Things like that. 20k grows to 21.5.
You mentioned the buckets at $13 each, there's also the 3" uni-seal at $9 each. 2 seals/bucket x 180 = 360 = $3240 before shipping. Almost 6k for buckets and seals. I already got the whole saw. Dont forget air pumps. I would be going with 6cfm/300lpm pond pumps. One air pump for every 30 sites for a total of 6 pumps @ $750 = $4500.
I can go on and on here....and remember I haven't even touched the security system. No diy setup is gonna cut it here. Read the directive on building security. Estimate the dollar value of the amount of product you'll have on hand at harvest. From that value you can assign a risk factor rating which dictates minimum security required.
Access control, intrusion detection, cctv every where, tamper proof, independent monitor lines, backup power supply...the whole nine yards bro.
There's so many little nickle and dime stuff people forget about when planning a build. Take the lights, about $20k to buy but they still need to be hung. Those yo-yos are $20/pair x 70 = 1400 at retail. Also, 140 eye hooks and 140 S-hooks @.50cents = $140. Things like that. 20k grows to 21.5.
You mentioned the buckets at $13 each, there's also the 3" uni-seal at $9 each. 2 seals/bucket x 180 = 360 = $3240 before shipping. Almost 6k for buckets and seals. I already got the whole saw. Dont forget air pumps. I would be going with 6cfm/300lpm pond pumps. One air pump for every 30 sites for a total of 6 pumps @ $750 = $4500.
I can go on and on here....and remember I haven't even touched the security system. No diy setup is gonna cut it here. Read the directive on building security. Estimate the dollar value of the amount of product you'll have on hand at harvest. From that value you can assign a risk factor rating which dictates minimum security required.
Access control, intrusion detection, cctv every where, tamper proof, independent monitor lines, backup power supply...the whole nine yards bro.
maximum
Active Member
Your setup is slightly different from mine. Have you ever tried ROPE RATCHET LIGHT HANGERS? I get 2 for $7. They come with the S hook built in. And I agree. The nickle and dime stuff adds up lots. Makes me envy the greenhouse grower when I do the math on our setup dwc and rdwc style.
redi jedi
Well-Known Member
Interesting....I see two possible situations. 1, you jump through all the hoops, your given a license and they say "Oh and by the way, the cost to renew that license will be 200k next year" or 2, there really is no fee and the guy that mentioned it here in the thread is full of shit and just trying to scare away the competition.
I have read the entire regulations now and I didnt see anything about compliance fees. To be honest I expected there to be some kind of fee. But maybe there isn't?