Multichip LED, Remote Phosphor - Guess who it is.

Beefsteak tomatoes? Those are going to be HUGE. It's funny you are doing this.
Tomorrow, my Multi-Chip LED should be arriving (2*50W) and I intend to get my tomatoes (Romas and Cherries) started under it.
But after seeing vids like this, I'm wondering if I should just go DWC and crop out under it.

[video=youtube;eiloe8ZeWK4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiloe8ZeWK4[/video]

Your 2x50W LED? Is it a 100W floodlight that has two 50W LED's in it, or are you making spotlights yourself? CCT, custom spectrum? I'll be interested to see your grow, you should post a link to your thread if you have one since for some reason the forum won't let me do a search for your latest posts/threads, it just says nothing matches my search criteria.

Bumping Spheda said:

Your 2x50W LED? Is it a 100W floodlight that has two 50W LED's in it, or are you making spotlights yourself?

Click to expand...

I don't have a thread yet (who the hell wants to see me grow tomatoes? LOL), but when it arrives, I'll try to get a couple pics up for you. I've also decided to get some heirloom seeds (like black stripes etc.. strange tomatoes) and grow those instead of Romas.
Anyway it is this light (I couldn't lift the pics, for some reason):
http://houyilight.en.alibaba.com/product/626966929-214209783/2012_integrated_led_2_50W_New_Best_Seller_led_grow_light_for_best_flowering_and_fruiting_with_full_spectrum_and.html

It is apparently 25x3W chips (run at 660mA) in each matrix, with an interesting blend of wavelengths. I can't remember off hand what the distribution was, but it's fairly complete as far as "cheapo Chinese" goes. However, what caught my attention was the heatsink they used. Very peculiar design... Someone put a little more thought into its engineering than I would've expected.

Hey, that looks really similar to the VanQ X4 series of lights. Cool panel!

Who wants to watch you grow tomatoes? Idk, I kind of do. Same people following my thread, and/or people interested in that light you've got coming. Btw, do you mind me asking how much that light was?

Well, I had to go pick it up from FedEx... whoever delivered it initially must have a wrist limper than finshaggy's "bean sprouts" since I never heard a knock...
Good news too, I didn't have to pay any duties! So my total cost was $88 + $5 (paypal fee) + $37 for the FedEx... $130 total...
that may be a little salty, considering I got a REGULAR 300W (~190W actual) off of Ebay for $175 (shipping included), but they do get cheaper as you go up the chain. And I didn't even try haggling, since I just wanted to test it.

But DAMN... I swear, this freaky 2*50W bad boy is BRIGHTER than the 100*3W... however, the footprint spreads out really fast, so I can see why VanQ uses focusing lenses...
I guess it makes sense, though. These Multichips have greater photon density, so they will have a higher output per m^2 (at tight distances, that is). I'll post some pics after I tear it apart

Oh and here's the LED matrix distribution (found it on my invoice)
Led ratio:
630nm 13pcs
660nm 4pcs
460nm 3pcs
610nm 3pcs
440nm 1pc
740nm 1pc

That thing is siiiick. If you end up liking it a lot I think you can make them for even cheaper yourself, although VanQ really gouges you on shipping so making more would be "better" than making less. Maybe you can even contact the guys that made your panel and ask them how much they'd charge for just the LED. If you do I wouldn't mind hearing the answer myself.

Can't wait to see those pics.

From 12" away, it looks like it has "hot spots" but it actually washes out nicely, although it was strange... the longer I stared, I could start making out 4 specific points of Blue light, which would correspond with the placement of them on the matrix.


This is 6", and there are definite points of intense light. I imagine it would be getting "bleachy" at this distance


And here is a pic to blind my phone...


I think I'll try tearing it apart tomorrow, I need to go do some calculations regarding Otto Cycles and Heat Pumps (which have nothing to do with this )...

Holy, moly. That thing is small. Just reminds me of how oversized the heat sink on my 50W actually is. And I'm a little surprised that you can see those hotspots, that's kind of interesting. Now that you mention it, I'd like to see what the spectral mixing looks like with other panels in a similar test, such as those using 3W chips that also haveactinic Blue's in their mix. It can't be as bad as that, right? Perhaps this is why White LED's are better than Blue, in order to reduce heat stress on the phosphor layer most (?all?) have a diffusive silicon material over the chip to spread the light out. Kills efficiency, but protects against CCT changes occurring over time and phosphor life. Even though those CW's have a boat load of Blue being emitted, perhaps it's not as intense in any one spot because of this? Idk, I'll stop talking.

NOT! And about you staring at the light I know exactly what you mean. Just the other day I was checking up on Kid and caught a glimpse of the 20W NW that I have in there. I coulda sworn I saw hot spots beneath the phosphor. I looked again and I couldn't see it, but then my eyes readjusted to the light levels and it was clear as day, I could count each individual chip.

Let's see what's under the hood.

Bumping Spheda said:

Idk, I'll stop talking.

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no... you're onto something with the blue's, CW, and efficiency... I would enjoy seeing that light in a standoff... maybe a little 2x2 tent..

Woot! Was gonna double post, but now I don't have to. And yea, Scotch, I'd like to see that panel go to work, too. heckler, we're heckling you to start a thread.

And the White film samples from both WhiteOptics and Furukawa have arrived. You wouldn't fuggin' believe the size of the samples that WhiteOptics sent me, the box is like 2/3's the size of a door, no freaking joke, I could hardly believe it myself. Some of it has adhesive backing, though, so I'll probably line my supplemental panels with it.

Anyway, I built the vacuum forming box today. I just have to cut a hole for the vacuum nozzle to fit inside and build the frame to hold the plastic film. It ain't pretty, but it doesn't need to be.

Tip for those interested in vacuum forming: Don't use plywood, the stuff just tears apart too easily. I'm guessing the guys who used MDF know what's up, but plywood is what I have lying around so that's what I used. Oh, and drilling holes sucks, get something already perforated, imo. Took me like 45 minutes probably just to drill all the holes (with a knot in my lower back).

You may have heard of them


What is peculiar about the HS design? also very curious to see the insides of this thing.

Would also love some WIP photos, Bumpy.

WIP photos of mine? Not much to really take pictures of, tbh. It's an LED, a CPU cooler, a reflector not too dissimilar from what's inside heckler's light there (a bit smaller probably... then again that light looks tiny, sooo), an RP lens... erm, a driver? Wait, did you mean a photo of the vacuum forming table?! Shiiit, now I feel dumb. Alright, I'll try to work on it today and maybe finish it, but absolutely no promises.

And, hey, what's that broken link? Am I the only one who can't see that?

Edit - HS? Heliospectra?

LOL, sorry that was confusing. the picture was just me being a smart arse but it didnt work. hah

I did indeed mean the table.

HS = heatsink.

The question about the heatsink was directed at heckler. He said it had a peculiar shape?

Ohhh. Pretty sure the heat sinks they use are these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Aluminum-Heatsink-with-fan-for-50W-100W-LED-light-Cooling-DC12V-/370771991933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5653bb9d7d
There's a picture of it somewhere inside the link heckler posted, but without the fan. It's sort of a bunch of fins in like a spiral, galaxy sort of shape.

Gonna head over to a vacuum repair shop to hopefully get myself an adapter for the box I'm making. I don't have a hole saw that's the exact right size for my hose attachment so if I can find a generic adapter that I can just glue onto the side of my box it'd actually be pretty cheap/easy. If that goes to plan all I have left to figure out is the frame to hold the plastic film and some door sill sealer tape to couple the frame to the box (which I actually have, believe it or not, I had a leaky door).

Bumping Spheda said:

Ohhh. Pretty sure the heat sinks they use are these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Aluminum-Heatsink-with-fan-for-50W-100W-LED-light-Cooling-DC12V-/370771991933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5653bb9d7d
There's a picture of it somewhere inside the link heckler posted, but without the fan. It's sort of a bunch of fins in like a spiral, galaxy sort of shape.

Click to expand...

I just woke up, grabbed my coffee, and then saw this... Yes indeed, that is is EXACTLY what is inside this light. Good find... so if that component can be sourced for $17, it comes down to cost of the multichip + driver, and one could make this light on their own (sans container & reflector)...
But right there, the total is $34, so that leaves $54. I somehow doubt I could source the rest of the pieces for that price. That is, the budget would be so tight as to make the effort moot, unless its production were scaled up. And if that were a goal, it would be better to just partner up with the company in a joint venture as a representative (which they are looking for BTW )

(A few hours later)
I've torn it apart, and here's the result

The measurements are not quite correct. It's actually 6 1/2" X 11".
I blame the coffee...


In this next pic you can see the Supply placements. They have me a little concerned due to the way they surround the intake fan, which is another issue I am deliberating; I may flip that fan around and make it an outtake instead.
A = Fan Power Supply: 12V, 0.8A, 10W
B = LED Driver: 50-70VDC, 600mA CC, 45W



I came to a realization these multi-chips can essentially be treated as CPUs. So that is going to make for some interesting cooling designs going forward, for sure.

Yo yo yo, that's .08A, right?

And you know I'm using CPU coolers for all three my spotlights? And get this, they even started jacking the price up on CPU coolers, it's crazy. Search eBay for like "120W LED heat sink," or maybe it was 200W, I can't remember. Looks like something that's worth ~$30 and they're asking $75 I think. Stoopid grow light mark up, just stick with Arctic Alpine, they're cheap and they tell you how many Watts they can handle. Nice looking stuff, imo, especially the horizontal ones, those look like a dream to hang.

But dayum, that's a sexy light you have. K, you're starting a thread... Hell, take mine for the meantime, I'm not using it much right now.

Bumping Spheda said:

Yo yo yo, that's .08A, right?

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No, it's 0.8A (800mA)... 12V * 0.8A = 9.6W = ~10W

And you know I'm using CPU coolers for all three my spotlights? And get this, they even started jacking the price up on CPU coolers, it's crazy. Search eBay for like "120W LED heat sink," or maybe it was 200W, I can't remember. Looks like something that's worth ~$30 and they're asking $75 I think. Stoopid grow light mark up, just stick with Arctic Alpine, they're cheap and they tell you how many Watts they can handle. Nice looking stuff, imo, especially the horizontal ones, those look like a dream to hang.

But dayum, that's a sexy light you have. K, you're starting a thread... Hell, take mine for the meantime, I'm not using it much right now.

Click to expand...

Yah, I recall something about CPU coolers on yours, but the significance didn't hit me until I opened these lights up. It's good since it removes the necessity for making any strenuous calculations over heatsinking.

As for the markup, people will pay what they are willing to pay. Marketeers exploit information asymmetry between market sectors; if they are selling $30 CPU coolers for $75, then that is a testament to how informed the consumer is, no?

EDIT: "Horizontal ones"? You mean the heat-pipe/radiator ones that go to 320W of cooling capacity? LOL, that's only 700% more cooling than required...

And thanks for the offer. When I get everything going, I'll just post my progress in here, since it does fit the theme of this thread.

Not bad build quality on that Chinese panel......they even use zip ties!

Looks exactly the same as hydro grow's new sol$$$$ panel; probably same manufacturer

How loud is it? 10W for the fans seems like a bit much, right?

I know what you mean. "Hey, add this option on to your Caravan for just $169.99. You wave your foot under the ass of this car and it magically opens the hatch." Dude, that motion sensor probably cost you 20 cents. Wait, you're not done? Now you wanna sell me all those other incompetence gimmicks like rear view cameras, front cameras, vibrators in my seat so I know when the guy in front of me is braking or a small child is behind me. I mean that's a whole new market right there, hell, let's make these standard options, right? People eat this shit up, I mean come on, it's luxury. Fml. I still have a camera-flip phone, I think I might cry when they stop makin' 'em and I gotta go Android Sour Patch Kid.

And yea, offer stands for you and anyone else growing with multichip LED's, be my guest. The more people post about this kind of thing hopefully the more people it helps.

Update of my own:


Finishing touches still required. Gonna fill the cracks with some JB Quik just to make sure there are no leaks from the wood glue, then I'll sand it all down. I thought about coating it with Plasti-Dip, or just spray paint it White, but who am I kidding? S'called polishing a turd at that point. Anyway, so what's left? Door sill sealer tape and a frame for the plastic film. That's all folks. I swear this was so easy to make, I bet you could do it with a cardboard box and hot glue.

Aaand the plants.

Not sure if you can tell the growth on Kid by this picture, but I sure as hell can jumping between the before and after shots of me watering him to his liking. He's going to get huge...

Little Cheese is looking compact and pretty happy.

Both kids look good Bump........Ease of the high N fert on the tomato plant to prevent bloom drop and go strictly with high P K from now on. Also add Cal/mag to prevent bud rot/fruit rings from developing.....

good luck