My Lighting Project - Will a Custom LED Panel Work?

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
One panel is now assembled. This takes quite a bit longer than I expected. Installing the LEDs is easy, the difficult part is establishing a rhythm with the really weird color pattern I created. All of the LEDs have clear lenses, so once you've installed them, there's no way to tell most of them apart.

Everything works very well together, and I'm hoping to stay up late and finish the other panel tonight. Ugh.

Pictures!

1. Panel assembled, notice how handy computer power cords become.
2. Lights on - damn, that looks cool.
3. Direct shot - I don't recommend looking directly into this light. My dreams will be blotchy tonight.

C2C :leaf:
 

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Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
Ok, picture first, then I'll type out the whole explanation of what I've been up to for the last couple of days. This is just a crappy cell phone picture, but it'll have to do for now, until my friend emails me the pics I took with his camera. My camera battery died as I focused in on my first shot.

This is the LEDs from my cell-cam, taken from halfway across the room, shining down on my friend's ex-main-reservoir.
 

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Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
I should have pictures of the whole mothers setup later today.

So... as you can probably tell from the first lights-on pictures, some LEDs were brighter than others. After messing with it and finding another solution, I realized the true culprit: the power supply was switched to 230V. I switched it over to 115V, and I had to change the boards *back* to how they originally were. That can be interesting to do once the LEDs are installed. Most of them look identical until the power is turned on. Fortunately, I hadn't damaged the power supply or any of the LEDs... they were all under-powered. :)

I finally figured it all out, got both panels mounted under a board with the power supply bolted to the top, added a switch (so I don't have to plug/unplug every test), installed some eye-screws for hanging the unit from rope on a closet rod (or whatever else I want to hang from later). I haven't made the safety line yet. After that, I'll make a protective piece of glass & a couple fans. The power supply and breadboards are cool to the touch, and the LEDs put off a little bit of heat... Not much. The reds put off the most, probably because they dabble in the infra-red range. I can still rest my hand on them after 10 minutes lights-on & no cooling fans. The fans will just be an added safe-guard, and I think they run more efficiently when they're not hot.

This light is incredibly bright, and probably even brighter to plants. I don't recommend looking directly into the LEDs. It's even hard to look at it from the side for more than a couple seconds of squinting, and they're only 30 degree viewing angle LEDs. There's much more cross-lighting coming off the walls than I anticipated. Bonus.

I also created an aero/hydro combo rubbermaid tub system with PVC & mini-sprinklers. The cell-picture didn't come out very nice on that one. The power supplies & breadboards arrived monday, assembled LEDs monday/tuesday, purchased everything to make the tub system & mount the light panels Wednesday at noon, finished all assembly Wednesday about 9pm. All I need to do is find the net-pots I want to use, cut the holes in the lid, return the water pump for a stronger one (I went with 4X the total sprinkler flow... not enough), bring down my air-pump & air-stones, and I'm done! Next week, I'll have 3 rooted clones going into my net pots w/ hydroton pebbles. Woo!

C2C :leaf:
 

turtleblood

Member
You can get a woot for Cali... I just wish I could get a woot for Mass. Decriminalization is nice, but LEGALLY growing with a med card would be BAMF.
 

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
I'm quite disappointed... was hoping to have those pictures by now, but I guess I'll get them when I get them. I need to find my digital camera. Should have babies going into the setup beginning of this coming week. :)

C2C :leaf:
 

turtleblood

Member
I must have missed it the first time, RIU was being wonky that day I think but anywho:
In your post #61 (7 up from here [haha 7up win!]), it looks like some of the red LEDs are very much underpowered. I am guessing that it is just the angle that the picture was taken at? If they are underpowered, you are going to have problems growing later - the plants need that red stuff!
And in the other pic, is that huge metal hunk the power converter? It looks beastly.

Keep it up! Get some ladies in that room and fuckin' rave! (You could totally have a rave with the color of light you are producing! Do iiiiiiit!)
 

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
Updates!

My friend's setup is fully functional, though he had issues with heat in the room using only one 600W HPS (total of 3) on the 50 pre-rooted clones he bought, since the water chiller isn't up and running yet (not designed for this exact purpose, trying to retro-fit). Until he fixed the temperature issue, he just used my 140W LED light and moved it around every once in a while. His conclusion: good results! (although plants don't need much light at this stage)

He opened the door of the grow tent, got the room ventilation system up and running at 75%, and it's holding at a consistent 80 degrees with 1 600W HPS on. Last night before I left, he switched it to two lights and put the fan at 100%.

Now about my setup:
Changed from the two-tub setup to a self-contained aero/hydro bin. The PVC & sprayer sits in the tub with risers high enough to put the sprinklers above the water level. I added a long bendable air diffuser, providing air under all of the sites with one 24" diffuser. The net pots are nestled tightly in the lid with hydroton clay pebbles. Unfortunately, the clones came in rockwool TOGETHER. It's impossible to separate them without hurting several of the roots. Also, you can't get the rockwool completely off. I was hoping to remove it entirely and just use the hydroton pebbles. What I didn't want to risk removing of the rockwool is nestled in the pebbles with the roots. Very strong roots on my three future mothers. :)

Contents:
18 gallon Rubbermaid® tub (Roughneck® Storage Box)
Smartpond Model# FP500 water pump, 300-500 gph, magnetic drive, 35W
Various hose & PVC parts
Red sprinkler heads (decided against misters to avoid clogging)
Elite 801 air pump
24" Bendable air diffuser (pseudo air-stone)
5" round X 5" deep net pots
Hydroton clay pebbles
Small fan
Visqueen poly sheeting
Custom LED light (being hung by rubber bungee cords now, ropes later)

Coming Soon:
ART-DNe Recycling timer (for water pump)

The water pump is on full-speed, because I realized the "adjustable flow rate" is only controlled by blocking the water inlet... same power consumption. The sprinklers love it, with a nice healthy flow. It'll stay on 24 hours until I get the recycling timer. The air pump is on 24 hours, and it makes really nice bubbles. Oxygen to the large roots that will hang in the water, and air flow moving through the reservoir for the roots in air-space.

For the first day or two, the lights are at 18". I'll probably move them down to 12" in a couple days. They put off the perfect amount of heat. With no fan, the lights and power supply get a little bit hot, though not too hot to hold. The reds get the hottest, leading me to believe they actually DO put off some infra-red. Bonus! They're on a 20/4 schedule right now, where nighttime is noon to 4pm.

With a small fan on low, they're a nice comfortable temperature; about as warm as the inside of a vagina. Mmm. I was going to say "armpit" or "my balls," but vagina is the most pleasant thing of that temperature (or any temperature, when you get right down to it). ;) The fan also keeps the babies twitching a little with just the right amount of air flow. We've been keeping an eye on to make sure the center pebbles stay damp for the first couple days, until they've fully recovered from any shock and sprouted some longer roots.

The water at his place is about 35ppm. Badass. He had them up to 400ppm, because that's what was recommended to him. I thought it'd be a good idea to give my ladies a couple of mellow days before bombarding them with nutes, so I added 50ppm to make about 85ppm total. I asked him to give them some more when they wake up at 4pm today, which should bump them up about 100ppm to be 185ppm total. I'd like to be as gradual as possible with my nutrient increases, to ease the plant into each stage. Also, I cut the largest of the lower fan leaves to send more nutrients upward.

Unfortunately, I screwed up the camera thing again. The card was full, but I thought the screen told me it wasn't even in. I could have just deleted a few pictures and got new ones, but instead, I have cell phone pictures again. It'll have to do for now.

Pic 1: The whole setup.
Pic 2: Plant #1
Pic 3: Plant #2
Pic 4: Plant #3
 

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Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
I must have missed it the first time, RIU was being wonky that day I think but anywho:
In your post #61 (7 up from here [haha 7up win!]), it looks like some of the red LEDs are very much underpowered. I am guessing that it is just the angle that the picture was taken at? If they are underpowered, you are going to have problems growing later - the plants need that red stuff!
If you look at post #63, second paragraph, I definitely noticed that and addressed the problem. They're all at full-power now.

And in the other pic, is that huge metal hunk the power converter? It looks beastly.
Pretty, isn't it? ;)

Keep it up! Get some ladies in that room and fuckin' rave! (You could totally have a rave with the color of light you are producing! Do iiiiiiit!)
Done!

Thanks for sticking with the project... more updates next week, and a grow journal as soon as I get some decent pictures. ;)

C2C :leaf:
 

turtleblood

Member
With a small fan on low, they're a nice comfortable temperature; about as warm as the inside of a vagina. Mmm. I was going to say "armpit" or "my balls," but vagina is the most pleasant thing of that temperature (or any temperature, when you get right down to it). ;) The fan also keeps the babies twitching a little with just the right amount of air flow.
Hahahaha. Very nice. I like the enthusiasm.

Sorry I missed so much stuff before. It was an interesting weekend to say the least.

Looking forward to seeing the journal! Peace!:leaf::peace::leaf:
 

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
Ok, lots to talk about.

The ladies are doing wonderfully. As I stated earlier, I do believe that this setup still lacks some sort of infra-red signal (and possibly UV signals) that the plant needs to know it’s receiving light and it can stop reaching for the sky. They’ve been in the 5” net pots with hydroton pebbles for a week now, and they’re looking great. Most of the large tap roots have reached through 2 inches of pebbles then all the way down to the reservoir, and there are little branches reaching off the sides of the larger ones, like tentacles.

The recycling timer for the pump arrived yesterday (when all of the pictures were taken), and mine went on the timer today. This should promote even more root growth of arms & hairs, making one giant root ball. Hydrogen Peroxide still hasn’t been acquired, though the roots are nice and white. Any brown spots you see are actually because I didn’t quite wash the hydroton pebbles well enough. They’re loving the oxygen that the air diffuser & pump bring in.

When I showed up Monday morning, they looked like strong plants, though just a tiny bit stretchy for so young. I strongly believe it’s because they’re searching for that IR/UV signal that the LEDs aren’t giving them. Until they find it, their genetics tell them, “get as tall as you can!” For this reason, I added 2 very small CFL bulbs. They’re the cheap-o diffused reflector/clip light, and I put an 11W CFL (40W incandescent equivalent) soft white 2700K in each one.

You may argue: This isn’t a true test of LEDs, how can we see how LEDs perform if you’re adding other types of light? Perhaps you’re right. My goal is to compensate for the very small shortcomings of the LEDs with a low-power light of another type. The CFLs only use 12.8% of the total power consumed by lights. That means 87.2% is still going to LEDs. Besides, my first priority on this grow is to get it started… I’ll do what I can to help the mothers grow and have some clones ready for me. The real experiment can be with the new babies.

Compared to my friend’s clones from the same mother, mine are about as tall as his average plants, and they were planted a couple days later. His have fatter stems, though. I believe this is from a combination of no IR/UV light (causing stretch) and because he moved his fan back on his plants, so mine weren’t getting any wind. It probably doesn’t hurt that he’s running 3x600W HPS in a 4x8 reflective grow room. Some of his plants that saw a bit too much wind have massive stalks. Burly lookin’.

You may notice, there is some nutrient burn on the edges of some leaves. I think they were given 400ppm a day or two too early, though the main culprit was probably the 185ppm foliar spray my friend gave them. Some of his weaker plants felt the pain too, so he didn’t do that again. We’ll probably start a new foliar schedule, though I don’t think it’s set in stone yet.

A couple hours after I added the two lights and fan, there was an impressive change. In the picture of all three girls when the CFLs were first added, they’re all a light green, almost fluorescent. To me, that means they’re not bringing in many nutrients (correct me if I’m wrong). About an hour later, it was like they were switched on. The leaves were already a much darker and healthier green. My friend told me this morning that the stalks already look stronger and more substantial in about 16 hours. We can’t know if that was from the fan or CFLs, but the color change is definitely from the CFLs.

It’s so cool to zoom way in on the pictures. My advice to every first time grower: Get a camera, take pictures, then zoom way in to study your plants. Look really close at the tops of the leaves, the bottoms, the nodes, the roots, the medium, the newest growth, etc. It will teach you so much about your plants, and you may catch something you had missed before.

I bought “Marijuana Horticulture – The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower’s Bible” by Jorge Cervantes, which has excellent illustrations and pictures of EVERYTHING. In my short and limited experience of the book so far, it’s a bit difficult to navigate. If you don’t know exactly what problem you have, it may be hard to look it up by symptom. Maybe I just haven’t found the right section of the book, though. The Index and Table of Contents haven’t helped much yet. It’s such an incredible wealth of information, I should probably just read the whole damn thing anyway.

Here’s the stats:

Added SuperThrive – 1 drop per gallon
455ppm total
pH was 6.2, lowered to 5.6
Temp – broken gauge, but it feels a good moderately-cool temp
Lowered the light about 3 inches after the pictures were taken

What’s Next:

Bump to 600ppm tomorrow
Build an aero/hydro cloner (similar to the mothers unit, but bigger and with more sprinklers)
Hydrogen Peroxide (hopefully)

Pictures:

Pic 1 – The whole she-bang.
Pic 2 – The new light setup. Talk about serious cross-lighting.
Pic 3 – All of the mothers with just the LED lights on.
Pic 4 – All of the mothers with all lights on.
Pic 5 – Root Porn – plant #1
Pic 6 – Root Porn – plant #2 (see my black outdoor light timer on the ground)
Pic 7 – Root Porn – plant #3 (you can see the bubbles in the res from the air diffuser)
Side Note: I know it’s really just kiddy porn at this point, but I’m excited!
Side Side Note: Just to clear up any misconceptions, I’m not into kiddy porn.
Pic 8 – Plant 1 – the strongest *
Pic 9 – Plant 2 – runner up *
Pic 10 – Plant 3 – a strong third *
Pic 11 – All three ladies when the CFLs were just added – bright green (it had been daytime for about an hour) *
Pic 12 – All three ladies a couple hours after the CFLs were added – look how they’ve darkened to a healthier green *
Pic 13 – Zoomed in on one… so stinkin’ cool.

*Shown only under CFL light

Thanks for reading… any comments?

C2C :leaf:

P.S. I tried to rotate the pictures, but it doesn't appear to have saved that way.
 

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turtleblood

Member
Lookin good! Those are gonna be some dope ass plants. I love how clean your grow is! I'm sure you're not the first to use that kind of setup with the plants on top of the resevoir, but it's genius! Very jealous.
 

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
Lookin good! Those are gonna be some dope ass plants. I love how clean your grow is! I'm sure you're not the first to use that kind of setup with the plants on top of the resevoir, but it's genius! Very jealous.
Thank you very much, good sir. I tried to learn as much as possible before-hand. I like some aspects of both aero & hydro, so I tried to capitalize on the best aspects of both. I guess the roots are starting to grow together now... badass.

I did find out some negative news. The plants are growing like mad... near the CFLs. The center plant, which was furthest from both lights, was lacking after a couple days (and it used to be the 2nd place plant). My friend moved the CFLs so the center plant got more, and it took off.

It appears as though they're not really responding to my 3mm LEDs. I do intend to do another project with beefier LEDs and some of the current LED Grow Lights on the market, though most of this first big grow will probably be under HID lighting. I'll go with tried & true until I have more research money coming in... about 3 months or so. ;)

I'll probably put the LED shining on some of the lower foliage, and see if it makes for decent buds in the lower bud sites. Who knows?

Until then, this thread is on pause. I'll update everyone with a grow journal once I've got the pictures (maybe next week).

C2C :leaf:
 

turtleblood

Member
oh no! sorry to hear it's not working out. have you considered toughing it out for 4 or 5 days without cfls just to see? and what about the UV/IR theory?
 
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