My Theory on the Great Coco Coir debate .

From what I read , the highest quality Coco Coir is where they flush the small pieces of Coco Coir out , and grow in what they call the long fibers . Growing in long Coco Coir fibers allows a medium that the roots can grow in easily and a medium that drains exceptionly well .

Low quality Coco Coir has a lot of small pieces that they refer to as Peat . Some sources say that what they call peat , are actually small pieces of Coco Coir , and not Peat Moss . Others claim that cheap Coco Coir has Peat Moss in the mix .

If there are a lot of small particles in the Coco Coir Shell , when watered , turns into muck .
The only way I found to dry it out is by blowing air from above the pot , down onto the top of the medium . Some people say that the peat is actual peat moss . Others say the what they call peat in the Coco Coir , is just small pieces of Coconut ground up dust from the shell .

In my opinion , if you don't have experience in flushing the peat out of your cheap Coco Coir , or unless you bought a lot of the cheap Peat Moss , you might want to think about finding out from someone or on the internet , how and where to buy Coco Coir , that is made entirely of the long fibers ( which I am assuming are the outer " Hairs " on the Coconut , and none of the outer shell Particles) .

I am going to take some of what I have left and seperate the long fibers from the fine particles , ( which I call Muck Particles ) .
I have never tried those Clay Pellets and I might try them later down the road .

I am guessing that anything grown in mediums that are not soil or compost . is considered Hydroponics .I guess that Coco Coir is from a plant , but behaves like growing in pure Hydroponics , like Clay Pellets . I guess there might be some debate on that topic .

P.S. I also bought a bag of what they call Organic Garden Coir which has no long fibers in it and I am not sure if it has peat or peat moss in it . I comes moist and is designed to be mixed with soil and used in an outdoor garden . It has a lot of little gray pellets that absorb water . From what I have read from indoor growers , they say to shy away from the products with water absorbing tiny pellets .

Halman9000

I use the Roots organic coco mix. It looks 50/50 between coco fiber and perlite.

I use it over and over. After the grow. Pull the root stump out. Let the pot dry to paper. Fresh mix to replace the hole. Cali-Magic soak before seeds are placed to them. Fabric pot.

No cleaning. No washing the pot besides a water hose flush after you decide to use the pot. Then the Cal-Mag soak for two days.

Halman9000 said:

From what I read , the highest quality Coco Coir is where they flush the small pieces of Coco Coir out , and grow in what they call the long fibers . Growing in long Coco Coir fibers allows a medium that the roots can grow in easily and a medium that drains exceptionly well .

Low quality Coco Coir has a lot of small pieces that they refer to as Peat . Some sources say that what they call peat , are actually small pieces of Coco Coir , and not Peat Moss . Others claim that cheap Coco Coir has Peat Moss in the mix .

If there are a lot of small particles in the Coco Coir Shell , when watered , turns into muck .
The only way I found to dry it out is by blowing air from above the pot , down onto the top of the medium . Some people say that the peat is actual peat moss . Others say the what they call peat in the Coco Coir , is just small pieces of Coconut ground up dust from the shell .

In my opinion , if you don't have experience in flushing the peat out of your cheap Coco Coir , or unless you bought a lot of the cheap Peat Moss , you might want to think about finding out from someone or on the internet , how and where to buy Coco Coir , that is made entirely of the long fibers ( which I am assuming are the outer " Hairs " on the Coconut , and none of the outer shell Particles) .

I am going to take some of what I have left and seperate the long fibers from the fine particles , ( which I call Muck Particles ) .
I have never tried those Clay Pellets and I might try them later down the road .

I am guessing that anything grown in mediums that are not soil or compost . is considered Hydroponics .I guess that Coco Coir is from a plant , but behaves like growing in pure Hydroponics , like Clay Pellets . I guess there might be some debate on that topic .

Halman9000

Click to expand...

Buy bulk coco mat at your nursery or big box store by the yard if you want good "coarse" fiber. I prefer medium in blocks for my mix and results. Peace.

I am guessing that perlite works if you have Coco Coir Fiber , with no peat in it .
I have not had any luck mixing Perlite with Coco Coir that is mostly Peat , and hardly any fiber .

I can see how that would work good , mixing Perlite , with long fiber materials , like the long fibers on the outside of a Coconut , that is carefully removed , so that no Peat ( fine particles of the Coconut Shell ) , get in it .

Interesting information about those Coco Coir long fiber Welcome Matts . Thanks to both of you for the info .

Halman9000

Halman9000 said:

I am guessing that perlite works if you have Coco Coir Fiber , with no peat in it .
I have not had any luck mixing Perlite with Coco Coir that is mostly Peat , and hardly any fiber .

I can see how that would work good , mixing Perlite , with long fiber materials , like the long fibers on the outside of a Coconut , that is carefully removed , so that no Peat ( fine particles of the Coconut Shell ) , get in it .

Interesting information about those Coco Coir long fiber Welcome Matts . Thanks to both of you for the info .

Halman9000

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YW. Quit wet sets. But you need more water and something to create space when running coco hulls as I call them. Peeled a few. As good as drainage and aeration is. They compact and turn into nasty sponges without support. And dry too fast initially. Or I have done. Just a thought or three.

Best wishes and bigger yields.

Thanks Michigan and Best Wishes .

I am going to read your michigan adventures in growin fer rednecks .

Already learned things just reading the first page .

I will get back to you in a few weeks or months when I am done learning from your pages .

Halman9000

Beehive said:

I use the Roots organic coco mix. It looks 50/50 between coco fiber and perlite.

I use it over and over. After the grow. Pull the root stump out. Let the pot dry to paper. Fresh mix to replace the hole. Cali-Magic soak before seeds are placed to them. Fabric pot.

No cleaning. No washing the pot besides a water hose flush after you decide to use the pot. Then the Cal-Mag soak for two days.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bee Hive . I am going on a three prong approach , I am going to use your medium ( Roots organic coco mix ) and grow some plants your way . Then I am going to read Michigan's pages , and grow some plants from what I learn on his pages , and thirdly I am going to continue with what I am doing , using a fan mounted near the ceiling to blow air downward onto the top of the grow medium to dry medium . If I turn the heater up , the warm air from the fan dries the coco muck quicker .

I've always used canna I'd describe it as fine more than coarse.

A cheap cunt associate I know got coco bricks from some bargain store, £3 a brick, the coir was extremely course with many more longer fibres than ever I've seen in canna/canna+

I wasn't prepared to risk using it idk anything about it in regards to buffering, salts whatever, but I did like the course fibrous texture of it.

I'd describe canna more like a compost, it mostly consists of what looks like ground up something fibres barely make 10% of it?

I like the idea of buying it in bulk and washing and buffering it myself, should I get the chance of them course af bricks what would I add to buffer it?

Most coco is good these days. It's all double washed and buffered whether it be bagged or compressed. You can just plant and grow.

Now years ago you really needed to wash it and pick the rocks, sticks, trash, and other crap out of it. I remember hydrating 5 kg bricks and ending up with a couple cups of sand in the bottom of the tote I used to rehydrate. After rehydrating I'd put it in a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled on the bottom and rinse it with a garden hose. The early days of coco are still lingering. But today's coco is an entirely different beast.

I came across these Burpee coco bricks the other day. $2.50 a piece. After rehydrating it was really nice coco. I typically use the 5 kg Botanicare bricks but sometimes I don't need that much coco so these smaller bricks are really nice to have around. I'm going to go pick up another dozen or so to have on hand. Pre-buffered or not I still always rehydrate with a low EC nutrient solution.

I'm living in the past, rocks, twigs, sand and salt is what I remember reading about, that's the reason I've stuck with canna, but for future reference, (loosely speaking) if it's in the shops/garden centre it's a reasonably safe bet?

I remember reading something about it lying on the beach/beaches for months and it being full of salt, idk if that was salt from the sea or salts from breaking down but its put me off trying other brands.

@TintEastwood had a good article on why there's different size fibers. Had it bookmarked but google's a bitch

I've gone with canna coco for the first time and it's littered with fungus gnat's...

Last run I used cheap af Coco, 0 gnats...

I'm not convinced it's the quality they claim, it's Dutch after all

Arkos said:

I've gone with canna coco for the first time and it's littered with fungus gnat's...

Last run I used cheap af Coco, 0 gnats...

I'm not convinced it's the quality they claim, it's Dutch after all

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Did the cheap af look, feel or perform any different to canna (bugs aside)

I can get 5kg/70lt delivered for £15 I'm thinking about trying it.

Star Dog said:

Did the cheap af look, feel or perform any different to canna (bugs aside)

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Yes, I definitely felt it had more long pieces of fibre.

This maybe link on coco "fines."

Fungus gnats can climb into vented bagged media of all types AFTER it leaves the factory. Just a matter of how and where it's been stored before being purchased. If a place stores it outside, I don't buy it.

TintEastwood said:

Fungus gnats can climb into vented bagged media of all types AFTER it leaves the factory. Just a matter of how and where it's been stored before being purchased. If a place stores it outside, I don't buy it.

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Great point, I do buy mine wholesale though so there's no store to goto.

The cheap coco I did buy from a store, it was Top crop I think, Spanish

I used Canna bricks for years and never had a problem with them.

I started using these recently and I love them. I'm flooding them, but the company also makes open topped versions that would work better for hand watering. I also tried Car Coir Coco Cubes, but I don't care for them because they become too compacted when they hydrate. The GroEzy cubes are nice and loose.

xtsho said:

Most coco is good these days. It's all double washed and buffered whether it be bagged or compressed. You can just plant and grow.

Now years ago you really needed to wash it and pick the rocks, sticks, trash, and other crap out of it. I remember hydrating 5 kg bricks and ending up with a couple cups of sand in the bottom of the tote I used to rehydrate. After rehydrating I'd put it in a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled on the bottom and rinse it with a garden hose. The early days of coco are still lingering. But today's coco is an entirely different beast.

Click to expand...

I used to put the coco in a fabric laundry bag inside of a wicker basket and wash it with a hose outside during warm months. During the winter it was the same setup, but in a bathtub with the shower sprayer. Then I had to ph it with a bunch RO water. It was all such a pain in the ass. Just breaking down the chunks took forever.

Star Dog said:

I'm living in the past, rocks, twigs, sand and salt is what I remember reading about, that's the reason I've stuck with canna, but for future reference, (loosely speaking) if it's in the shops/garden centre it's a reasonably safe bet?

I remember reading something about it lying on the beach/beaches for months and it being full of salt, idk if that was salt from the sea or salts from breaking down but its put me off trying other brands.

Click to expand...

That was the past. It used to be the norm but now most all coco is good to go. Once it started getting popular the places like Sri Lanka, the Philippines, etc... realized what that waste product was worth and started collecting and storing it properly before processing. These days the coir might be more valuable than the coconut they're harvesting.

Sand, sticks, rocks, dead mice, etc... were often found in coco years ago. Now they treat it like gold to sell because it's becoming so popular as a growing medium.

xtsho said:

That was the past. It used to be the norm but now most all coco is good to go. Once it started getting popular the places like Sri Lanka, the Philippines, etc... realized what that waste product was worth and started collecting and storing it properly before processing. These days the coir might be more valuable than the coconut they're harvesting.

Sand, sticks, rocks, dead mice, etc... were often found in coco years ago. Now they treat it like gold to sell because it's becoming so popular as a growing medium.

Click to expand...

I was a bit unsure about ordering that 70lt but now I'm quite satisfied it's a safe bet, thanks for that, I'm going to order it now.

I never thought about its value but yes the fibre is worth more than the coconut itself.