MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

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Dude Man

Member
well i started one anyways,

well i did not know you guys were so touchy!!

I though information was free??

i did not know you wanted money for asking a few questions??

I know that's not what you are saying?

if it makes you feel better i could mirror thew thread on this site to???

just remember it's not US against US!!!

it's US against them!!

if i could gather free information to help some poor guy grow his own and end our dependence on foreign MJ than fine call me a asshole!!

I have cut and pasted facts only i have not stolen anything?????


the information for people to grow your own should be free!!!!
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Its pretty bad manners to take something without asking.
Setting your parachute alight when you plan to jump out of the aeroplane isn`t a smart thing to do. Best of luck with your grow, i think you may be needing it ;)
 

fatman7574

New Member
well i started one anyways,

well i did not know you guys were so touchy!!

I though information was free??

i did not know you wanted money for asking a few questions??

I know that's not what you are saying?

if it makes you feel better i could mirror thew thread on this site to???

just remember it's not US against US!!!

it's US against them!!

if i could gather free information to help some poor guy grow his own and end our dependence on foreign MJ than fine call me a asshole!!

I have cut and pasted facts only i have not stolen anything?????


the information for people to grow your own should be free!!!!
Dude
Drop the holistic its us against them crap. This is not a AN Fat Mikie Straumetic site for the underground community of growers.

This is a site for selling seeds for profit. That fact is merely thinly veiled by the seed sellers also providing a free site for growers to communicate with each other. The fact that growing pot is a commom topic is simply a good deal for the seed growers as it increases seed sells. This is not a Norml or activist site. This is not a net work of AN dim wits.

You have indeed stolen material by not supplying a reference and posting inforamtion as if it is your own. Some call it theft of intelectual material, most just call it plagiarism. At least admit what yoiu did was tacky instead of spouting the we against them free sharing of info crap that no adult would buy. I hope the extra viewers numbers gained by posting without references to anothers intellectual material fed your ego real well dude.

A cut and paste without also posting a reference is simply plagiarism (theft). My not supplying a refernce you are implying the material is your own. In an acedemic situation your paper or post would be rejected if you were a student. You could possibly be expelled under a violation of a plagiarism clause common to all schools. You could be barred from future enrollment under a typical University morals clause due to plagiarism. In the civilian community you are liable for theft for plagirism.


A person need not copy right or register their work to sucessfully win such law suits. They do not even need to show they have been hurt by the plagiarism.


Plagiarism, as defined in the 1995 Random House Compact Unabridged Dictionary, is the "use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work."[1]

References:
1)^ qtd. in Stepchyshyn, Vera; Robert S. Nelson (2007). Library plagiarism policies. Assoc of College & Resrch Libraries. p. 65. ISBN0838984169.

IE Simply post a name of the author of the information etc and post a link and then it is no longer plagiarism as you are giving credit to them rather than claiming it as yours. Pretty simple Dude.

Have a good day.
 

Dude Man

Member
This thread will be dedicated to the gathering of information, related to HP-Aeroponic Growing.


I am new it this type of growing but, I will learn and try to record my information and information gathered from other people, So together we can learn how to grow more environmentally friendly. The main ecological advantages of aeroponics are the conservation of water and energy. When compared to hydroponics, aeroponics offers lower water and energy inputs per square meter of growing area. When used commercially, Aeroponics uses one-tenth of the water otherwise necessary to grow the crop but this can be reduced to as little as one-twentieth.

Just post the info of link to it so i can add it, that way all the information can be stored in one place so we won't have to spend months reinventing the wheel, and also if you want to try some thing new you can see if it's been done before.



that's the first post, so don't jump to conclusions!!
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I have over 35 years experience designing hydroponic systems. Yiur planned grwowing methodology is not an energy or cost efficient system nor is it a cheap low investment system. Its only real avantage is that it will withstand the stresses related to pump circuit failures better than an aero system and that it will not have the root rot problens associatted with small tube aeros systems, NTF systems, poorly constructed Ebb and Flow systems or standard DWC with poor circulation systems.

For large yields and low investment the easiest and cheapest system to set up is a large tube medium pressure aero using an Iwaki md-40RZT or MD-70RZT 15 to 40 psi pump, standard sprayers with pump running 24/7 with solenoids used as a divertor system. That way the spray is intermittant. The large tubes cost $20 to $35 each for a 6" by 20" tube 8 foot long. Depending on which plastic you choose. To assure water delivery you just install a flow valve on your pumps discharge. If at any time it loses flow it triggers a switch supplying power to another circuit supplying poeer to another pump. Of course this will not help for a full power outage but there are always chances such as that with any systems.

I mainly chose to upgrade to air atomized aero as I can long term yiels and also potency without remote building expansions or adding more grow sites. I chose atomized over HP because it is more adjustable and because large air tanks are more economical that many small high pressure accumlator tanks or a large accumulator tank. Plus the air compressors have longer life spans than the HP pumps as well as the fact that the air atomized systems are just energy wise more efficient as water just isn't as compresive as air. Plus ther are more readily adjstbale by using the many many different size nozzles, or adjusting nutrient feed heights ar adjsting air pressure or a combination of those three, plus cycle adjstments. I think over a long period of time the costs with a large system are likely pretty comaparable energy wise. Labor and maintenace costs in the long term would likely be higher with the air atomized system.

IMHO

Neither the HP or air atomized system is a low cost system that is likely cost effective for small grows without also tieing in the other system boosters to allow for high temp (faster) grows such as airconditioning, dehumidification and CO2. It is really not cost effective to have the best nutrient delivery system possible when you can not really utilize it well. Plants don't want just a great nutrient and air root DO delivery suystem. The want a great everything system. For the best results and for the best return on your investments you provibe all conditions opto imixed in a balanced system. Not just a better D and nutrient delivery ssytem. That is like supplying a too high EC, or too much light, or eccessive unneeded CO2 or too much dehumification for the transpiration rate taking place, or excessive temperatures in relation to other pramaters.

High pressure aero is not a fix all. It is merely a best delivery system for DO, water and nutrients that allow you to max out your other parameters and get the bestresulyts in the shortest amount of time. But if the only thing you do is supply HP aero or air atomixed aero all your really doing is growing Bozai mj plants at a higher investment cost. Your cycle time will a ltle shorten as the plants will be smaller but your yield will not be as good without all parameters also being in balance with the high DO, water and nutrient deliver rate. Plus to get the most groth in the shortest cycle you need tebest balance you can provide. It is unlikely that will ever happen without high temps low humidity die to dehumicification and high par through loh ght optomxed for bomzai plants. That means may low wattage halides or HPS the are cooled by water placed just an inch or two above the plant canopy. The smaller light wattages also mean higher initial investments but they allow for low wattage use with closely placed lamps as the high intensity of larger bulbs is not needed with 10" to 18" plants budded in 5 or 6 weeks. That means horizontal lights with parabolic refectors at sizes like 3' by 2' for 2 or 3 foot chambers side by side. Ie SOGS. Luckily I have bought neraly nothing but low wattage halide and HPs for years now. Large wattage lights are not a good choice for SOG plants as the light distribution is far from even at close placement of lights (as is most efficient) and raising the light to get better distribution lowers the PAR too much. IE the only advantage to high watt lights is increased depth of intense lighting (therefore for tall plants, and the fact that 4 250watts light ballasts and bulbs plus four refelectors etc cost motre than one 1000 watt light. But with large grows, ec specially large commercial grows efficiency and better utilization capabilitoes of multiple small lights very quickly offsets the lower initial investment costs of poor utilizable large wattage plants.

IMHO I think big tress will be a much larger challenge for a long time yet to come unless there are more people willing to spend the time and efforts with the much larger testing needed for taller plant grows especially if the grows do not utilize full parameter controls.

IMHO While a tall plant grown indoors looks impressive it just is not as economically and efficiently or quickly grown as a huge number of very quickly grown small plants. Over aperiod of time when total costs are calculated in the indoor SOs grows are juts a higher retum on invetment grwing method than taller more physically impresive looking plants.
Thanks for the tips, I've been considering all the same things myself.

I have to learn and try everything, I'm just that way, but much/most of my grow will be in a simple setup I can't screw up, at least this time.

Some things you won't hear me talk about just because it's boring, this stuffs fun.
 

fatman7574

New Member
I understand what your saying. I had to use a peristaltic pump head that would deliver 100 psi and a small accumalator RO system tank to power up a few HP mister heads before I ordered air atomized heads. Then I had to try out existing large aero tubes with air atomized misters before I could commit to building chambers to replace them. I have learned to do small scale testing before making large scale decisions. It is not easy to tell a medical marijuana user that their is no product for them because you made upgrade changes that were not wise choices. Telling a cancer patient you do not have the only thing that makes their chemo treatments tolerables not easy.
 

AeroTrek

Active Member
The goal as far as yields is concerened is really no more than what the same strain would do in a more conventional grow in a normal time period. Basically your talking for a SOG producing 12" plants in 5 or 6 weeks total with the same yield as 18" inch plats in 8 or 9 weeks. That means alos using less light ad the palnts are shorter, plus the growing periods is cut by one third cutting the energy needs by another one third, plus one third less CO2 and about 1/5 to 1/10 of the nutrient cost and water cost. Basically just growing as efficiently and as quickly as possible. It is however at this point easier to grow SOG in this manner in a shorter time than normal at a lesser cost than taller plants. Efficient HP aero and air atomixed aero tends to cause a bonzai effect by producing plants that have very short internodes. That is beneficial to a fast SOG grow but not so much for groiwng large trees. I myself doubt if am highly efficient aero used in a highy efficient manner will ever grow large taller plants any where near as tall as they would grow in a less efficient system when grown over a longer period of time.
Fatman,

I prefer the sativa strain but have always found myself running out of ceiling hight when using DWC. Would your statement also refer to the naturally tall and long node spacing found in the sativa strains? Would they be substantially shorted even into flowering when they normally take off?

Dude Man said:
ok I am done, i can see you are ass holes!

by me explaining what a pressure switch is?

that's plagiarism?

listen here you little shit!!

If you don't want people to read what you post than don't post it on the internet!!!

as soon as you post anything on any site, it's the site that own's it!!!

okay, giveing plants water to make them grow is no secret!!

Your whole ME,ME,ME,ME generation has ruined this world!!

it's not about YOU!!!

nowhere have i claimed to invent anything!


I don't recall where I've read it but this quote should say a lot "There is no such thing as invention just innovation". From the beggining of time we have taken what was there and improved on it. For example Nobel was noted for inventing dynamite but, most likely his buddy did but happened to be standing too close when it was realized. LOL

In any case, to use someones work and claim it as your own will only lead to disasters as only the originator knows the reprocussions in whatever innovations where made.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Yes HP fine mist intermittent spray aero or air atomized aero will shorten the internode spacing on sativa also if run based upon water uptake efficiency. This means shorter plants. There comes the problem with what is optimal with an efficient aero system and what is too efficient and therefore not necessarily optimal. mj plants are quite fine with just growing enough in size to be able to quickly reach maturity so as to reproduce. They really do not care whether they grow to huge heights. If all their needs are provided to them in a very efficient manner then they grow in a very efficient manner, meaning shorter and bushier than when growing in more traditional manners or when grown outside in soil. That can be pushed to hugh extremes where sativa 10 foot standard strains can be grown to maturity and bloom at a height such as 2 to 3 feet. 3 to 4 foot indicas can be grown at 1 to 1.5 foot heights.

What remains to be seen is if growing at extreme levels of efficiency as far as water and nutrient delivery allows for the growth of tall plants. It might be necessary to actually grow with less efficiency by over watering or under nuteing so as to not cause such short growth by causing a more lateral root growth and less hair root growth or by up taking less nutrients and therefor slowly maturity and causing larger inter nodal spacing so as to actually grow taller plants.

If you research Hemp growing in relation to inter nodal spacing and heights you would find that, plants grown in heavy soils where water and nutrient uptake is more limited than in loose more friable soils high in organic manner, actually grew taller with larger inter nodal spaces, and that they budded later in the season and produced less seed as they matured more slowly. Hemp grown in parts of fields where the soils were more often saturated or nearly saturated with water produced the same taller but slower maturing results due to lesser nutrient availability.

What this would mean is if a grower wished to grow a single crop in a greenhouse set up with a HP or air atomized 50 micro droplet size water delivery system cycled for highest water and nutrient uptake efficiency could start the grow a month or more later than usual for a standard grow. The plants would still reach the maturity needed for budding and setting seed in the shorter season. The plants would be shorter as the efficiency causes short inter node spacing. The plants would also finish faster. This would make such a system quite advantageous for green hose growers in areas of shorter growing seasons. IE Alaska and the Canadian Yukon areas. The light in temperate climates would be intense enough that the bushiness and therefore thick foliage would not be the issue it is in indoor grows so there would be strong budding over the whole plant rather than the thick bushy foliage blocking light penetration to all but the tops cola and branch tips. IE yield would be higher without the need for SOG growing. Trying to provide enough intense lighting for a bushy plant in and indoor plant lowers cost efficiency due to the need for higher wattage intense lighting to penetrate all the way to the plants central stem anywhere but at the plants top.
 
ive implemented a solenoid at the end of my main line to my misters. It opens between sprays, and relieves pressure, preventing sprayers from dripping.

Ive gone one step farther and implimented a thrid solenoid that is in oposition with the other ones. So most of the time my pump just spits back to the main res. Then, when the one closes, it forces it to the sprayers. WHen that first one closes, so does the one on the end of the sprayer line, so the sprayer line becomes a dead end. Then, when these 2 open back up, i have a third that is on the feed line to the sprayers. It simply shuts when the other 2 open. Now i get no dripping at all between sprays. All solenoids are normally closed. 2 are on a relay, and the other is just plugged in. All 3 plug into a cap art timer. My spray times are around 5 seconds. Im looking for a way to shorten spray times. Im running 30psi according to my pressure guage plugged into my main mister line. I have 150 1gph 30-80 psi misters plugged into the system. THey spray down from lids of containers. Im running the big 70 series iwaki pump, rated at 40psi.

It is a quiet pump when its under pressure, when its not under pressure it gets loud. Im debating putting a simple pvc valve on the return to res pipe that way i can close the orfice a bit and create some back pressure, maybe that will help make it quiet all the time.
 

fatman7574

New Member
ive implemented a solenoid at the end of my main line to my misters. It opens between sprays, and relieves pressure, preventing sprayers from dripping.

Ive gone one step farther and implimented a thrid solenoid that is in oposition with the other ones. So most of the time my pump just spits back to the main res. Then, when the one closes, it forces it to the sprayers. WHen that first one closes, so does the one on the end of the sprayer line, so the sprayer line becomes a dead end. Then, when these 2 open back up, i have a third that is on the feed line to the sprayers. It simply shuts when the other 2 open. Now i get no dripping at all between sprays. All solenoids are normally closed. 2 are on a relay, and the other is just plugged in. All 3 plug into a cap art timer. My spray times are around 5 seconds. Im looking for a way to shorten spray times. Im running 30psi according to my pressure guage plugged into my main mister line. I have 150 1gph 30-80 psi misters plugged into the system. THey spray down from lids of containers. Im running the big 70 series iwaki pump, rated at 40psi.

It is a quiet pump when its under pressure, when its not under pressure it gets loud. Im debating putting a simple pvc valve on the return to res pipe that way i can close the orfice a bit and create some back pressure, maybe that will help make it quiet all the time.
A ball or gate valve would decrease volume thereby increasing velocity and work required by the pump thereby quieting it down. It wold laso mean that the pressure to your misters would build up faster and improve the spray pattern at the beginning of your spray cycle. You should be able to easily shorten your spray time if your timer allows for shorter increments.

150 misters makes for a sizable system. What is that old saying, "Go big or stay at home!"
 

Dude Man

Member
I am sorry i swore at you guys earlier i just got angry, I insist i never stole anything from you guys nor was it ever my intent. My pages are still up if you care to find your way to them, and will see that for yourself.

I was wrong to post the link and won't do it again, honest mistake?

I simply wanted to exchange information that may be useful to every one.

I hope in the future when i get my system up and running, which i will, i will have more to share.

sorry tree farmer for wasting more space in your thread.

I just wanted to apologize.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Some people are touchy, sounds like you're on the right track, how about we all chill out so this thread doesn't get closed again?
Most people seem to have good intentions.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Hey I have watched my language for weeks now. I thought it strange they closed the thread when I was off net rather than on. Thank god that whacked out mental case sherriberry is gone. As far as open net full sharing, I doubt that will ever happen. Disclosing too much of a new and better way to grow that is also considered cutting edge government backed research is kinda like being the first wave of cocaine base smokers who started teaching everyone how to cook base cocaine rock/base.

When those dealers were found out they were quickly locked up for long stretches. Some things the government just doesn't want widely known. Have you noticed all the many meth labs are not on line anymore. Police and the congress will only tolerate so much. They really could care less about most of the systems used as they are typically cheap-ed down sad systems that do not even work as swell as those used by commercial green house vegetable growers.

Some not to brilliant mj growers like to think they can modify systems such as 12' wide NTF trough growing systems using chlorine injection systems and pumps with venturi valves that were designed by university researchers for lettuce by grossly under building them by using 3 or 4 inch wide gutters or fence posts and call still call then NTF. Thats sad. Lettuce is very quick growing and has very small roots masses equivalent to a mj clone at about three weeks old.

Nutrient thin film is based upon the fact that DO will only diffuse through a layer of roots stacked up about 10 mm thick (0.40 inches). So the NTF system is suppose to be used with a layer of roots preferably 4/10 ths of an inch/thick tall at most with 1/4 inch considered ideal. Most small gutter and fence posts have layers of roots 2 to 4 inches thick. Most small tube aeros by the time budding startss have tubes filled full of roots. iIt is comical that a great many people in the mj growing forums think NTF or small tube aeros are the best . mj growing systems.

I am sure the police checking out the forums daily through out the country get a big laugh out of those mj growing systems. Then there is the very heavily circulated DWC that is a very, very high energy user. Some say it is the best as it produces quite a sizable proportion of root hairs. It is even efficient enough that the plant inter nodes are closer together than most all the other systems....except the medium and high pressure and the air atomized aeros in large tubes and deep chambers.

Te high energy DWC is at best close to the medium pressure large tube or deep camber aero with 50 micron sprayers. But the top of the line DWC systems uses about three times the pump wattage and twice the lighting wattage as the medium pressure SOG growers who use large tubes and closely hung lights and a pump with divertor valves. The kind of power usage used by that DWC system for commercial size grows is obvious when brought on line so the police don't care about those systems as they are easy to spot when they so choose to look. High pressure aero and air atomized aero are currently the top end experimental government research system being designed to use on space ships and space stations.

They are the ost efficient systems presently in development. They have lower power usage, water, and nutrient requirements than any other system in existence. They can grow the most in the fastest time in the least amount of space with the least amount of wasted nutrients or water. The are least known about systems among mj growers. They have the smallest heat signature of all commercially feasible growing systems because they can utilize the smallest lights due to the plants short inter node spaces.

I am quite sure the police who have the job to wade through the growing forums daily will surely not attempt to find out the identity and location to people who post glossy photos of these grows and explain all the ins and outs in a simple easy to read and under stand thread complete with directions fully explained in layman's terms. Yeah like I want to open or post to that thread. I like this thread where nearly no photos are posted and where most people who access it and try to rad it have their eyes roil back into their heads. No one posting cutting edge grow systems should really openly post photos of those systems stems in operation or even many photos related to the systems. Let the people at other sites go on the watch lists and have their true IP addresses supplied to local police. Proxy sites are not secure to good hackers.

They Fedscan spend the money to have the information provided through hacking into growing sites and proxy sites or just buying off growing site administrators or simply telling them if you want to stay on line feed me. They operate forum sites to sell seeds. They do what it takes to keep selling seeds.

What??
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Yes you have, just saying.

Crap I hope just mentioning the wrong name doesn't draw someone out like saying beetlejuice three times.
 
Thanks to the help of fatman i think im getting a decent c02 setup going.

My grow is up in my attic. My hot water heater is in my basement. Im putting a fish tank air pump in an air tight container. Ill have a small hole for the air line to go through, and tape it all off, so its air tight. Put the air pump in there, and run the fish tank air line up to the attic. Meanwhile, there is a larger diameter hose, about half inch, that taps into the chimney exhaust pipe of my hot water tank. The pilot light creates non stop c02. The only air that can get into the tupperware box that the pump is in, is sucked in from the exhaust chimeny of the hot water tank.

Im going to put a carbon monoxide alarm in my grow room, which is air tight btw.
And perhaps a c02 alarm? not sure.. but eventually, im going to try and find a good deal on co2 ppm digital meters, and just put one in the room. If c02 gets too high, you simply put the pump on a timer, and have it shut off for a while. I dont think it will get too high tho if a person is running enough plants to inhale it all.
 

clydefrog

Well-Known Member
im down to buying my booster pump fellas...aquatec or shurflow? i know there was some back and forth about them being similar...any new experience since then? any new opinions?
 
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