Mycorrhizal fungi applications for cannabis - the caveats

bicycle racer said:

i wonder how advanced piranha and tarantula fair they seem to up yields for me.

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Ask them for a reference to a non-partisan analysis. Just because they say it contains this and that, doesn't mean it does. Or if it does, doesn't mean you get what you pay for.

Best way to increase yields, and the cheapest, it understanding what makes a plant tick. Certainly won't be found in a pretty bottle with a pretty name.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Guess it comes down to who you want to believe. That would be a feeling thingie, not a fact.

http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=167

Each one will pose somebody's "independent research" to push their products. It's all about the money.

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yea it is all about the money... I know great white works well but seems to be a huge rip off and i dont like how it has 9% nitrogen...

The company that claims to be the best in that chart has agreed to send me free product... they said they would be happy for there product to be tested against any competitors.... they also told me that I could have the product tested for around $35.00 dollars (depending on who tests it) and that if the spore count was lower than 1500 than i would recieve a refund... they also claim to use no fillers... its a 25% / 25% / 50% mix of pure goods.

This stuff is really cheap compared to other similar products... a 4oz. jar of great white is $35..... or you can get pumpkin pro for as cheap as $8.00 a pound.

i know everyone claims to be the best... i will do my usual side by side and let everyone know what happens.

the link you posted is probably correct..... they dont list the companies that they tested against.... so i could believe that they were the winners.... I wonder if they tested mykos, pumkin pro, or great white?

anyhow yea, i understand and agree with a lot of your snake oil beliefs but i dont agree completely with everything you say.... but i still got respect for your views and i always like to hear someone hate on AN so.... keep on rockin uncle ben...

have a good one!

jberry said:

the link you posted is probably correct..... they dont list the companies that they tested against.... so i could believe that they were the winners.... I wonder if they tested mykos, pumkin pro, or great white?

anyhow yea, i understand and agree with a lot of your snake oil beliefs but i dont agree completely with everything you say.... but i still got respect for your views and i always like to hear someone hate on AN so.... keep on rockin uncle ben...

have a good one!

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Do you mean MYCO MADNESS by Humboldt? http://www.horticulturesource.com/humboldt-nutrients-myco-madness-soluble-1lb-12-cs-p5882/ Price is double from what I pay and it goes without saying, it's another rip. With shipping, a $5 "handling fee" and the price of the goods we're talking $89 to my door!

What I buy, Myco-Apply Soluble Max is $38 and makes up to 200 gallons of drench which allows me to use it commercially in the field. BTW, if you're using a decent compost, you don't need any of this stuff, not that it necessarily improves plant anyway. Adding peat moss and compost or castings to your potting soil and you're good to go regarding your desire for humates, microbes, etc.

UB

the plant supplement industry is similar to the human supplement industry the key to not getting burned is doing your own research and educating yourself on the biology of plants and the organisms that live with them. at which point you can make an educated opinion on whats worth spending money on. some products are worth it and useful and some are pure snake oil.

bicycle racer said:

the plant supplement industry is similar to the human supplement industry....

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Very reason why I always buy generic, NON-organic aka non "natural" vitamins or supplements. I will not get sucked into the scare tactics and propaganda spewed by the green movement wackos.

Now.....where in the hell did I put that ouija board?

Uncle Ben said:

Do you mean MYCO MADNESS by Humboldt? http://www.horticulturesource.com/humboldt-nutrients-myco-madness-soluble-1lb-12-cs-p5882/ Price is double from what I pay and it goes without saying, it's another rip. With shipping, a $5 "handling fee" and the price of the goods we're talking $89 to my door!

What I buy, Myco-Apply Soluble Max is $38 and makes up to 200 gallons of drench which allows me to use it commercially in the field. BTW, if you're using a decent compost, you don't need any of this stuff, not that it necessarily improves plant anyway. Adding peat moss and compost or castings to your potting soil and you're good to go regarding your desire for humates, microbes, etc.

UB

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no. i know about the many humboldt products , but i mean MYKOS by xtreme gardening/RTI........ its fresh pure inoculant without filler and has a huge reputation in the pumpkin growing world under the name "Symbios Pumpkin Pro"
mykos / pumpkin pro... same product/same company but two different names.
they say the most important thing is that it is fresh and of coarse claim that most brands arent and theirs is....

but its cheap... 18 dollars for a pound of mykos or 60 dollars for 10 pounds....

they said i could have it tested myself against any competitor at many labs for around 35 bucks.... and if it had a lower spore count or a count below 1500 (30 is concider good), they would refund me and give me new fresh inoculant for free.

they shipped me some for free, so i guess i got nothing to lose on this round...
I found that most nutrient companies will just give you their products for free if you ask right... at that point the price of the product doesnt matter... i try it, if it works i buy more, if not i dont.

mycos apply is one of the better ones as well.

jberry said:

they say the most important thing is that it is fresh and of coarse claim that most brands arent and theirs is....

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Normal shelf life is at least 2 years if you keep it in a cool place.

Like I said, it's all about the money and neither you or I can qualify their claims. It's a matter of blind trust. This stuff is not regulated being that it falls under a "non-conventional" additive, so these guys can pee in a bottle, call it Grandma's Wonderful Sunshine and sell it for 90 a liter.....and get away with it.

Uncle Ben said:

Normal shelf life is at least 2 years if you keep it in a cool place.

Like I said, it's all about the money and neither you or I can qualify their claims. It's a matter of blind trust. This stuff is not regulated being that it falls under a "non-conventional" additive, so these guys can pee in a bottle, call it Grandma's Wonderful Sunshine and sell it for 90 a liter.....and get away with it.

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true dat.............. but regardless of all their claims, some companies products ARE actually better than others... finding which is which is the challange.

anyhow i got a pound for free and a bunch of smaller samples of some of their other blends... they even overnight mailed it.

if it works well, then it happens to be way cheaper than most of the other companies when i buy more.


ive read 2 year shelf life from some sources as well..... but that sounds like blind faith as u would say.

jberry said:

anyhow i got a pound for free and a bunch of smaller samples of some of their other blends... they even overnight mailed it.

if it works well, then it happens to be way cheaper than most of the other companies when i buy more.

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That's a great score! Have fun....

Here is a site to GROW your own from HOME
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=63352

I have been experimenting with raw material like 80-100% ingredients,80% humic acid, 70%fulvic acid,amino acids, blackmolasses,kelp,mycorrihial seems to love this stuff, this guy also sell flower booster 52% potash, magnesium,
has USDA/ORMI Certified.Most of the plant booster are from this type of ingredients.The owner called me 3-4 times to make sure Iam happy with his products and was very happy about answering any questions I had. Plus it whole lot cheaper!! Check out the ingredients,just like the bottles you buy at the store.
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store

Peace

UB,

On my last grow I got a 4 oz. container of Roots Organics "Oregonism" (endo/ecto mycrorrhizae) and watered it in per instructions shortly after the seeds sprouted. When I depotted after this last harvest, and examined the root balls I couldn't see where it made a dam bit of improvement over what I'd had the crop before that when I hadn't used it.

Admittedly this wasn't the most scientifically conducted trial but it was enough for me to decide I wouldn't be spending any more money on that particular ptoduct.

Jack

yea that sucks, i wouldnt use that product again either if i were you.

something else to keep in mind is:
If you used a water source with chlorine or chlormine then it may have just killed your fungi off before they even had a chance... Any products containing H2o2 would kill them as well.... Also, a high EC of chemical fertilizer would also cause problems.

but look for a product that is high in endo-mycorrhizae the endo's are the important ones...

Some products have both endo mycorrhizae and ecto-mycorrhizae listed on the label. Ecto mycorrhizae inoculum has huge spore counts with concentrations of 80 million or more per c.c. It is therefore inexpensive to add a little and report large spore counts in a product. They are however only of value to most conifers and a few hardwoods. Endo mycorrhizae forms beneficial associations with over 80% of all plants including most commercial fruit and vegetable crops (except the brassica (cabbage), chenopod (spinach and beets). Pigweed and other members of the Amaranthae family are also not able to form mycorrhizal associations.

Jack in the Bud said:

UB,

On my last grow I got a 4 oz. container of Roots Organics "Oregonism" (endo/ecto mycrorrhizae) and watered it in per instructions shortly after the seeds sprouted. When I depotted after this last harvest, and examined the root balls I couldn't see where it made a dam bit of improvement over what I'd had the crop before that when I hadn't used it.

Admittedly this wasn't the most scientifically conducted trial but it was enough for me to decide I wouldn't be spending any more money on that particular ptoduct.

Jack

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I understand, reason why I started this thread with the caveat emptor tone. You're speaking from experience, not theory the latter based on hype, ads, claims, etc. If a seller is saying such and such, WATCH OUT! They have one agenda and one only, to make money. They are not necessarily your friend nor are they your agent looking out for your best interests. Look, the human element is such that "people are dreamers, and con men fulfill that dream." (especially when applied to cannabis growers who are probably the biggest group of dreamers I've ever met)

IOW, if it sounds too good to be true......

I have always used tapwater which was high in chlorine and had no problems. I lived right next to the water processing plant so the ppm was at its highest level as opposed to being 40 miles at the end of the line where the Cl levels greatly fall off but are still concentrated enough to provide sanitary water.

Check out some of the rootballs, do they not look healthy, robust, etc.?
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

My plants rootballs are ALWAYS very massive, well branched and healthy at harvest as reflected in the many posts of them over the years.

Fellers, when is the last time you measured your soil's microbial count? May I borrow your high tech lab equipment, electron microscope, etc.?

Uncle Ben said:

Fellers, when is the last time you measured your soil's microbial count? May I borrow your high tech lab equipment, electron microscope, etc.?

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well, while it may not give one an actual (accurate) microherd count, it's still pretty amazing what can be done with a regular ol' lab scope ==> http://www.microbeorganics.com/

cheers
-g

Jack in the Bud said:

UB,

On my last grow I got a 4 oz. container of Roots Organics "Oregonism" (endo/ecto mycrorrhizae) and watered it in per instructions shortly after the seeds sprouted. When I depotted after this last harvest, and examined the root balls I couldn't see where it made a dam bit of improvement over what I'd had the crop before that when I hadn't used it.

Admittedly this wasn't the most scientifically conducted trial but it was enough for me to decide I wouldn't be spending any more money on that particular ptoduct.

Jack

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Are you saying there was no fungi colonies on your roots whatsoever? Or were there, and just no noticeable improvement in plant growth?

u can use chlorine water with good results..........

high levels of chlorine will also kill beneficial bacteria or at the very least slow their growth.

after all, that is the reason chlorine is added to tap water... (to kill bacteria that could harm humans)

jberry said:

after all, that is the reason chlorine is added to tap water... (to kill bacteria that could harm humans)

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Humans, bacteria, etc. I don't think there is soul here that can distinguish the difference between beneficial microbes for plants, their function, harmful bacterial agents for humans, etc.

Uncle Ben said:

Humans, bacteria, etc. I don't think there is soul here that can distinguish the difference between beneficial microbes for plants, their function, harmful bacterial agents for humans, etc.

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that's true!



but it's unalloyed fun to look at the little microbeasties under the scope as one studies, learns, and ponders on their identity and efficacy...



cheers
-g

Great thread UB and fellas! Im currently using a product called mycoroot which is made up of locally harvested and cultured endo and ecto native to my country's soils/climate etc.
Im using a peat mix with fine dol lime; perlite; worm castings; steamed bone meal; blood meal and very light touch of finely sifted homemade compost and my added mycoroot. I left this to brew for about a month prior to using. I also made a small seperate mix with the same ratios just without the mycoroot. I treated two pots with the myc.mix and the other to with the other mix. Also out of being a sceptic.
Out of the 4 afghan seeds 1 didn't sprout which was in one of the untreated pots. (not that im saying it was because it was untreated) I only fed them rain water with which I add a liquid fulvic acid. I saw a difference in vigor in the first 3 weeks of growth. The two treated plants had noticebly bigger fans, slightly thicker stems and had darker colour shoots. I also noticed that the untreated soil had to be watered more often than the treated soil. They are currently 9 weeks old from seed and I transplanted the two treated plants into big ass 5 gal pots about 2 weeks ago and left the untreated plant in the same 1.5 gal pot (for space reasons). So from here on out I can't really compare them fairly anymore as the two are already double the size of the other one because of the new space but it gave me a good indication in the first month! All in all they are really doing great so I can't complain.

I think these products really assist in expanding existing collonies in soils and will really benefit new seedlings or cuttings and give them a jump start. I also think it will really benefit the noob organic gardener as it helps keep salts and moisture under control.

Happy growing all.