Mycorrhizal - (great shark), (biosys) or (TNC)?

420mlet

420mlet

Member
Hi all,
so today I had big bill for only mycorrhizals that I bough, biosys and great shark and then I find out there is TNC mycorrhizals too… great shark and biosys are costy compare to TNC is TNC mycorrs as good as biosys and great shark? Or they all are as good?
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Also maybe some got better solution or cheaper instead of this”sugar rush”?
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Maybe you using complete diffene stufft8-)
Thanks in advance lot :weed::(
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
XtremeGardening Mykos is very popular and available in EU. Guess you're in UK since you mentioned TNC?

I've tried their stuff many years ago but it's been to long for me to remember fully. Remember using it when brewing teas running organics, it grew proper bud.

Stay away from sweeteners. Only thing I would suggest is Fish emulsion at 10th the lowest suggested dosage. Then you get enough carbs for the microbes, organic sulfurs and amino acids.
 
420mlet

420mlet

Member
Wastei said:
XtremeGardening Mykos is very popular and available in EU. Guess you're in UK since you mentioned TNC?

I've tried their stuff many years ago but it's been to long for me to remember fully. Remember using it when brewing teas running organics, it grew proper bud.

Stay away from sweeteners. Only thing I would suggest is Fish emulsion at 10th the lowest suggested dosage. Then you get enough carbs for the microbes, organic sulfurs and amino acids.
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Mhmm so you saying XtremeGardening mykos is better then great shark, biosys or TNC? Or this mykos is pritty much the same?

Also why stay away from sweetiners like sugar rush? I need more info as Im new to this sugar rush thing. So Fish emulsion instead of sugar rush?
Thanks
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
420mlet said:
Mhmm so you saying XtremeGardening mykos is better then great shark, biosys or TNC? Or this mykos is pritty much the same?

Also why stay away from sweetiners like sugar rush? I need more info as Im new to this sugar rush thing. So Fish emulsion instead of sugar rush?
Thanks
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It's more affordable I think and people seem to like it. Look into making IMO and LABS if you want to make your own bacteria cultures and inoculants.

There's enough carbs for the microbes to flourish already in the medium, peat literally contains a lot of carbs by volume, most decaying plant matter do. You only destroy the structural integrity of the soil if you over use sugars in soil containers. Hope that helps. Cheers!
 
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420mlet

420mlet

Member
Wastei said:
It's more affordable I think and people seem to like it. Look into making IMO and LABS if you want to make your own bacteria cultures and inoculants.

There's enough carbs for the microbes to flourish already in the medium, peat literally contains a lot of carbs by volume, most decaying plant matter do. You only destroy the structural integrity of the soil if you over use sugars in soil containers. Hope that helps. Cheers!
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Thanks a lot for great reply!

Just had a look in to that mykos and its great! Not exactly part of mycorrhizae but will do gor seeds and transplanting.;-)

Also will try use a lot less of sugar rush now I recon max 1ml/L every other week or so… as lable says 2ml/L every watering :roll:
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
420mlet said:
Thanks a lot for great reply!

Just had a look in to that mykos and its great! Not exactly part of mycorrhizae but will do gor seeds and transplanting.;-)

Also will try use a lot less of sugar rush now I recon max 1ml/L every other week or so… as lable says 2ml/L every watering :roll:
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Check out Dragonfl Root Boost too.
Think I worked it out at around 33 pence per dose per plant through its life.
I use it from rooted clone to last transplant before flowering.
www.dragonfli.co.uk

Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi Granules

Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi Is The Ultimate Planting Aid Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi is a natural, granular, microbe-based, planting aid. It has been specifically designed to ensure successful planting, and transplanting, of plants, trees, shrubs and turf. Roots Boost includes 18 species of...
www.dragonfli.co.uk www.dragonfli.co.uk
 
420mlet

420mlet

Member
Moflow said:
Check out Dragonfl Root Boost too.
Think I worked it out at around 33 pence per dose per plant through its life.
I use it from rooted clone to last transplant before flowering.
www.dragonfli.co.uk

Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi Granules

Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi Is The Ultimate Planting Aid Roots Boost Mycorrhizal Fungi is a natural, granular, microbe-based, planting aid. It has been specifically designed to ensure successful planting, and transplanting, of plants, trees, shrubs and turf. Roots Boost includes 18 species of...
www.dragonfli.co.uk www.dragonfli.co.uk
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lol, dont think Ill use it :D
 
ComputerSaysNo

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
How would you even be able to discern the good from the bad?

Advanced microbiological knowledge and a fully equipped lab is necessary to actually get to the bottom of things here.

I would go by price, and only replace a product if it does not solve the problem you are having. Maybe you can do a controlled test grow, comparing several products.

I personally have bought TNC Bactorr to inoculate a hydro reservoir, and if it turns out to be effective at keeping my roots healthy I will continue to use it; otherwise not.

The TNC products are professionally marketed, they do not over-sell their stuff, and their pricing is more than fair; "Great White" appears to be grossly over-marketed and over-priced. I would never buy that.

As far as the Myco and Trichoderma products go: you have no way to decide which one "works" and which one does not (unless you've got a microbiologist with a lab on your hands, see above). So simply but the cheapest one you can get and use that.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
When comparing these products, look at the propagule count. That's the only thing that matters besides the fact that only two types of mycorrhizae are known to work with cannabis. Mycorrhizae products only work if applied directly to the root system, this is why propagule count matters. The higher the propagule count, the more surface area of actual mycorrhizae will be in contact with the root system, rather than filler. Oldmeduser got it right, dynomyco beats these products BY FAR with it's higher propagule count, and use of the correct mycorrhizae for cannabis. Great white has 83 propagules per gram of each glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae (the only useful KNOWN mycos for cannabis), or 166 propagules per gram total. Dynomyco has a combined total of 900 propagules per gram of these (I think Oldmed has an older bag, or maybe a newer one than I do, hence the different #s). That is how you want to compare these products, ignore the "cool" names and just focus on propagule count of WHAT MATTERS. All the ecto mycorrhizae in Great White is irrelevant. The assorted other rhizobacteria in it are good, as is the trichoderma, but it's very diluted and mostly filler.
 
ComputerSaysNo

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
The higher the propagule count, the more surface area of actual mycorrhizae will be in contact with the root system, rather than filler. Oldmeduser got it right, dynomyco beats these products BY FAR with it's higher propagule count, and use of the correct mycorrhizae for cannabis.
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This is great information, and will certainly hint at the quality of the product (if the numbers of the manufacturer can be trusted at all). Especially the fact that most mykorrhizae won't even settle on Cannabis roots.

I would like to know if the spore/propagule count matters beyond the probability that the fungus colony will establish itself at all.

Wouldn't the colony be able to propagate on its own after establishing itself?
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
ComputerSaysNo said:
This is great information, and will certainly hint at the quality of the product (if the numbers of the manufacturer can be trusted at all). Especially the fact that most mykorrhizae won't even settle on Cannabis roots.

I would like to know if the spore/propagule count matters beyond the probability that the fungus colony will establish itself at all.

Wouldn't the colony be able to propagate on its own after establishing itself?
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Beyond propagule count, the biggest factor in success would be the quality of the starting material, some of these companies have proprietary strains and practices to maintain quality, others buy in bulk and repackage in "cool" bottles. Dynomyco is a super well researched product and is made by them in Israel. They are always happy to answer any questions you might have.
 
ComputerSaysNo

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
Dynomyco is a super well researched product and is made by them in Israel. They are always happy to answer any questions you might have.
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I will probably buy it, if I find a source. It's not readily available in my region. Apparently can be ordered from the UK though.

TNC distribute through Amazon directly, so their stuff is super easy to get. I will buy their Trichoderma product, which also includes a full dose of bacillus amyloliquefaciens -- very convenient to have both in one supplement. And much cheaper than GHE's trichoderma supplement.
 
Jjgrow420

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
When comparing these products, look at the propagule count. That's the only thing that matters besides the fact that only two types of mycorrhizae are known to work with cannabis. Mycorrhizae products only work if applied directly to the root system, this is why propagule count matters. The higher the propagule count, the more surface area of actual mycorrhizae will be in contact with the root system, rather than filler. Oldmeduser got it right, dynomyco beats these products BY FAR with it's higher propagule count, and use of the correct mycorrhizae for cannabis. Great white has 83 propagules per gram of each glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae (the only useful KNOWN mycos for cannabis), or 166 propagules per gram total. Dynomyco has a combined total of 900 propagules per gram of these (I think Oldmed has an older bag, or maybe a newer one than I do, hence the different #s). That is how you want to compare these products, ignore the "cool" names and just focus on propagule count of WHAT MATTERS. All the ecto mycorrhizae in Great White is irrelevant. The assorted other rhizobacteria in it are good, as is the trichoderma, but it's very diluted and mostly filler.
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The propagule count is different in the product in USA and Canada.
Also propagule does mean it's an active spore it means it could be any part of a spore viable or not. While dynomyko is ok there's better products like promix connect which state viable propagule counts rather than just propagulesIMG_20210908_073622.jpg
@6000 VIABLE spores per gram it literally blows dynomyko outta the galaxy.
 
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Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Jjgrow420 said:
The propagule count is different in the product in USA and Canada.
Also propagule does mean it's an active spore it means it could be any part of a spore viable or not. While dynomyko is ok there's better products like promix connect which state viable propagule counts rather than just propagules@6000 VIABLE spores per gram it literally blows dynomyko outta the galaxy.
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I've heard about the pro-mix product, but haven't been able to find it in the USA, I've been meaning to contact them to see if it's even available here, thanks for reminding me. I've used mykos in the past, but I don't like it, honestly I'm not sure if there is anything in there but filler. I wouldn't get too caught up in the semantics games that manufacturers play-Dynomyco is just the best product I've tried so far, doesn't mean there isn't a better product out there. I would LOVE to get my hands on a myco product with a 6k propagule count!
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Turns out the Promix Connect is only available in Canada right now and is $150 USD per 250 grams. I'm sure it's a wonderful product as are all Promix products but that's a bit rich for my blood. Also, for the sake of clarity, Dynomyco's propagules are also "viable." I see Promix makes a big deal about viable spores, but I believe all of the legit companies offering myco products are only counting viable spores, but you made a good point, it's always worth double checking.
 
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GrowRijt

GrowRijt

Well-Known Member
The best thing about propagule counts is you can’t really verify them. There isn’t any regulation on selling mycorrhiza so they can put whatever they want on the bag. You don’t own the equipment to check up on them. and they all put way high numbers on there.

Most companies focus on one variety as well which is the most aggressive variety to grow and sell. All in all you only need a few spores per cm to propagate a good colony. Buy an inexpensive or mid range product and give it the good enviro and you are all set.
 
ComputerSaysNo

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
GrowRijt said:
The best thing about propagule counts is you can’t really verify them. There isn’t any regulation on selling mycorrhiza so they can put whatever they want on the bag. You don’t own the equipment to check up on them. and they all put way high numbers on there.
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This is exactly what I hinted at earlier. Unless companies publish independent lab tests, it is not possible for us to judge the quality or effectiveness of a product.

Now of course there is always first-hand experience. But how do you measure "success" after using a Myco product? It requires hell of a lot of controlled experimentation to come to any conclusions. Probably with knowledge and equipment one could examine soil samples.
This is all way beyond the reach of most growers.

All in all you only need a few spores per cm to propagate a good colony. Buy an inexpensive or mid range product and give it the good enviro and you are all set.
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This is my intuition as well. I'd rather spend less money on a product that makes a good first impression on me, and then simply trust the outcome. Probably the best default decision is to not even use any supplements unless there is a clear problem that they can fix.

E.g. adding beneficial bacteriae to a DWC water reservoir (a) fixes a known problem and (b) is very easily verified for success by looking at the root mass. Not true for Trychoderma or Mycorrhizae applications, especially not in a medium where you can't inspect the root mass.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
GrowRijt said:
The best thing about propagule counts is you can’t really verify them. There isn’t any regulation on selling mycorrhiza so they can put whatever they want on the bag. You don’t own the equipment to check up on them. and they all put way high numbers on there.

Most companies focus on one variety as well which is the most aggressive variety to grow and sell. All in all you only need a few spores per cm to propagate a good colony. Buy an inexpensive or mid range product and give it the good enviro and you are all set.
Click to expand...
As of last year, all North American manufacturers of myco products must adhere to the same labelling guidelines per the AAPFCO. All of these myco products have viable propagules-they are more regulated than ever before. Notice they don't specify spores, nor are spores necessarily the best type of "propagule", it's just a catch all term that includes spores, hyphae, and root fragments ("root fragments" contain both spores and hyphae), so the biggest difference between products lies in the concentration. For me, it's all about the honesty and integrity of the product, and it rubs me the wrong way when I see these big bags of low propagule count mycorrhizae being sold. It's dishonest and a waste of packaging and unnecessarily increases shipping weight, etc. They are selling huge bags of filler as a marketing ploy. The more concentrated the myco product, the more honest it is-for me anyway. If Promix sold their myco product in the USA, I'd buy it in two different situations: 1. If my grow were large enough to make use of 250 grams in a reasonable amount of time, and 2. If they decided to sell it in smaller amounts.
 
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