Need help! Budworms, Mold -- harvest now?

Hi All,

This is only my second time growing and first time outdoors... and well, my poor girls are getting massacred by bud worms.

Basically I have 11 girls on my deck (live in SoCal) that I planted in May from a bunch of random seeds I found in herb I bought and expected some of them to come out male so i'd end up with 5-6 through flowering but all of them ended up female. Anyways everything was going great despite a little more work than I hoped for until I left to go on vacation in August for 10 days and I come back to finding a couple worms... only to read online about them and quickly realized I had like hundreds of these fuckers.

I did the things I read to do... bought BT, started spraying.. even bought a giant 20x100 afgani bug net to literally close off my entire freaking deck from these death savage moths.

However it is now getting to be mid 60's at night and any areas where the flowers were bitten or pooped on by the budworms are rapidly turning into black mold that seemingly is spreading insanely fast for past 2 days. I had ripped out any super poopy peices and any all the tops that started dying from these fuckers (literally about 2 ounces worth of bud ripped off already)

-- attached are some pictures showing the moldy pieces forming- especially where the stems were bit open by those deathworms.

Do I just harvest the plants now to salvage whatever I can now? Some are close to ready for harvest but others look like need another 2-3 weeks... I mean i guess I'd rather have some non moldy bud that is less potent vs a shit ton of moldy bs??

On top of that, now I seem to be getting little fucking mites and white flies up in there now that i finally got mostly a hold on the worms.

This has been a nightmare experience and I will definitely learn from it to be preventative in the future but just trying to save what I can as this was like 2 LBs of pot, and its quickly going to turn into like a couple ounces of clean smokable pot which crushes me with how much money and time i spent.

The mites pic.... That plant might be totally toast.
I'd chop.
Anything not done and also not infested can keep rolling, but if they got mites, just get rid of them.

You didn't amputate the rot???
You aren't going to end up with squat.

Chunky Stool said:

You didn't amputate the rot???
You aren't going to end up with squat.

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^ I have been trying, like I said, I already amputated more than 2 ounces off but me being the newbie, didn't see some if forming in the very inside of every flower. And quite frankly, its a shit ton of work to inspect and tear it all off every single day. It takes me 30-45 minutes per plant and i have 11 of them... and a day job with 2 little kids.

But I will take your response and translate it to "yes, fucking cut down whatever you can that isn't rotted" <-- is that the right takeaway?

Again its my first time growing outdoors and only second time ever so I am not an expert in dealing with pests, mold or really anthing which is why i am asking for help/advice.

Miyagismokes said:

The mites pic.... That plant might be totally toast.
I'd chop.
Anything not done and also not infested can keep rolling, but if they got mites, just get rid of them.

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^ Yeah, that plant got it the worst (you can see the yellowing and all the little spots on the leaves) so had similar thoughts, there a few flowers untouched but most of it got destroyed between the worms and mites and it looked mostly fine a mere few days ago. None of the other plants had mites until just last few days at all seemingly (or that I could see) so it seems their spreading is my fear in letting the less harmed ones continue to roll. Are mites even worse than budworms? Is there no way to get rid of them at this late in the flowering i assume?

Welcome to RIU

Brendan311 said:

^ Yeah, that plant got it the worst (you can see the yellowing and all the little spots on the leaves) so had similar thoughts, there a few flowers untouched but most of it got destroyed between the worms and mites and it looked mostly fine a mere few days ago. None of the other plants had mites until just last few days at all seemingly (or that I could see) so it seems their spreading is my fear in letting the less harmed ones continue to roll. Are mites even worse than budworms? Is there no way to get rid of them at this late in the flowering i assume?

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Use a flashlight to scan for bugs while it's still dark, right before you turn on the lights.
Spider mite webbing shows up big-time, especially on lower growth.
It works!

Herb & Suds said:

Welcome to RIU

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Thanks.

Brendan311 said:

Are mites even worse than budworms?

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Well, that's a matter of opinion.
Bud worms do mad damage immediately. Mites take time to build the population, but not long.

How tall are your potential survivors?
A thorough dip would help.
I use Dr Bronners to knock down mites, works until harvest, although it can prematurely brown hairs and trichs if too strong.

Miyagismokes said:

Well, that's a matter of opinion.
Bud worms do mad damage immediately. Mites take time to build the population, but not long.

How tall are your potential survivors?
A thorough dip would help.
I use Dr Bronners to knock down mites, works until harvest, although it can prematurely brown hairs and trichs if too strong.

Click to expand...

The thing about mites is that once they hit a certain population, they can literally engulf all your colas in webbing overnight.
I'm serious.
Been there, seen that.
They stay on lower growth for a while, then BOOM -- you're fucked.

I was in a race to the finish and didn't want to spray anything so close to the end.
Went to bed after checking on them and everything looked fine.
Checked again the next morning and all of the colas were engulfed in webbing!

I lost the race to the finish and the entire crop went into the compost bin.

Chunky Stool said:

didn't want to spray anything so close to the end.

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I try to avoid it, but infestation is infestation.
A few times I've had to spray until cut, and I still dipped before I hung.
The nice thing about Dr Bronners is it's extremely effective at less than their recommended dosage for pests, and you can rinse it off.
Granted, anywhere humid, i'd be way more leery about all this water on the buds, but I'd rather have my colas go moldy in the middle than lose everything

Miyagismokes said:

I try to avoid it, but infestation is infestation.
A few times I've had to spray until cut, and I still dipped before I hung.
The nice thing about Dr Bronners is it's extremely effective at less than their recommended dosage for pests, and you can rinse it off.
Granted, anywhere humid, i'd be way more leery about all this water on the buds, but I'd rather have my colas go moldy in the middle than lose everything

Click to expand...

Yeah, it was a learning experience. I would have handled it differently now.

Never had bud rot indoors, but it's a constant companion outdoors here in the Pacific NW.
On the bright side, mites aren't a problem outdoors these days. The cold nights has really done a number on them. Plus I've got a zillion tiny spiders in the area that zap most of the small stuff.

Last time I looked there was some PM, but that's expected. I just amputate & move on. Same with rot.
Can't be shy with that shit.
I amputate big chunks on a regular basis & chuck em in the yard to get mulched later.

You need to not worry about any bugs or mold or bud rot on earth. There is only one way to grow worry free and that is the "farmer's" way.
In veg, you only need one pest killer = EcoVia 3inOne $130. a jug.
In bloom and flower, you use TetraSan leaf spray which kills on both sides of the leaf and last 4-5 weeks. At the 4th week, use Kontos a systemic, last 4-5 wks. Both of these cost around $130. each. You must use these chemicals or suffer chasing pests for 6+ months. This is 2018 there are no pests that can evade these listed chemicals. All are either organic, or are accepted into the "organic" scheme of growing. Says so on the labels.
Then you need to protect against bud-rot and powdery mildew and grasshoppers, caterpillars. Three products are used in combination for this: Cease and MilStop and BT or Spinosad. Note: Milstop raises the pH around the buds and makes it inhospitable for mold and fungus. But, Milstop's high pH cuts pest insecticides by 1/2, so instead of Spinosad, I use the more powerful BT in combo with Cease and Milstop.
If you use these products as I've outlined in my topic "Manifolding plants In a GreenHouse" you will find all of the answers.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/manifolding-menorahn-plants-in-a-greenhouse.969078/
I'm ready to harvest half my crop. I have never seen a live bug in the last 6 months on my plants, only clear, dear skeletons of predators. JOIN IN THE FEELING OF: "I OWN THIS GROW", BUT YOU CANNOT, CANNOT, BE A SUCCESSFUL LAZY FARMER UNLESS YOU USE CHEMICALS, OR SPEND YOUR TIME WITH TWEEZERS AND "ORGANIC" SOAPS. Your time is to valuable too spend chasing bugs and disease.

Chunky Stool said:

On the bright side, mites aren't a problem outdoors these days

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We had a little bit of an Indian summer this week, been high 90's the last few days here in NorCal, and it shows by the damage. But rain is coming, and I hope that will be enough to slow them down until harvest, even though i'm gonna have pm to instead...

hydra-glide said:

You need to not worry about any bugs or mold or bud rot on earth. There is only one way to grow worry free and that is the "farmer's" way.
In veg, you only need one pest killer = EcoVia 3inOne $130. a jug.
In bloom and flower, you use TetraSan leaf spray which kills on both sides of the leaf and last 4-5 weeks. At the 4th week, use Kontos a systemic. Both of these cost $130. each. YOU HAVE

Click to expand...

Tetrasan does work.

Miyagismokes said:

We had a little bit of an Indian summer this week, been high 90's the last few days here in NorCal, and it shows by the damage. But rain is coming, and I hope that will be enough to slow them down until harvest, even though i'm gonna have pm to instead...

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Yikes!
Mites *love* heat.

Plain water actually works fairly well outdoors.
You don't have to blast them, just a good misting of the undersides of the leaves will wash them away.

Don't do it close to sundown, of course.

Mites also don't like wind, so a fan will slow them down -- and helps prevent PM/rot too.

Miyagismokes said:

Tetrasan does work.

Click to expand...

Good god does it ever. it kills bad bugs that eat weed on both sides of the frickin' leaf, it does!.
Get them cheapest here:
•
EcoVia 3-In-One - labeled "for cannabis". (DoYourOwnPestControl.com) Use on (1) gal -up pots through the entire vegetation stage. No Spinosad or BT needed at all. And use 3N1 until 2nd week of flower. It is an oil base product. Not recommended for established buds (terpene, trichome, conflicts might take place. Oil based buds meets oil based insecticide = problems with trichome intrusion.
https://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjworfdBRA7EiwAKX9HeJCKIIWN3haczhNbiFEC39tj8vtaLVOEtBp35TLDPCLCf7Gd7NAyyxoCwf0QAvD_BwE
•
Tetra San - https://smile.amazon.com/Tetrasan-5WDG-Miticide-pound-Packaged/dp/B00552P9KY/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1538158621&sr=1-1&keywords=tetrasan
•
Kontos (DoMyOwn.com)
https://www.domyown.com/kontos-sc-insecticide-miticide-p-4523.html
•
These and BT and Spinosad will provide "worry-free" farming.

hydra-glide said:

You need to not worry about any bugs or mold or bud rot on earth. There is only one way to grow worry free and that is the "farmer's" way.
In veg, you only need one pest killer = EcoVia 3inOne $130. a jug.
In bloom and flower, you use TetraSan leaf spray which kills on both sides of the leaf and last 4-5 weeks. At the 4th week, use Kontos a systemic, last 4-5 wks. Both of these cost around $130. each. You must use these chemicals or suffer chasing pests for 6+ months. This is 2018 there are no pests that can evade these listed chemicals. All are either organic, or are accepted into the "organic" scheme of growing. Says so on the labels.
Then you need to protect against bud-rot and powdery mildew and grasshoppers, caterpillars. Three products are used in combination for this: Cease and MilStop and BT or Spinosad. Note: Milstop raises the pH around the buds and makes it inhospitable for mold and fungus. But, Milstop's high pH cuts pest insecticides by 1/2, so instead of Spinosad, I use the more powerful BT in combo with Cease and Milstop.
If you use these products as I've outlined in my topic "Manifolding plants In a GreenHouse" you will find all of the answers.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/manifolding-menorahn-plants-in-a-greenhouse.969078/
I'm ready to harvest half my crop. I have never seen a live bug in the last 6 months on my plants, only clear, dear skeletons of predators. JOIN IN THE FEELING OF: "I OWN THIS GROW", BUT YOU CANNOT, CANNOT, BE A SUCCESSFUL LAZY FARMER UNLESS YOU USE CHEMICALS, OR SPEND YOUR TIME WITH TWEEZERS AND "ORGANIC" SOAPS. Your time is to valuable too spend chasing bugs and disease.

Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah, preventative is obviously the way to go. I was simply a newbie and I had no idea what budworms were or where they came from until they showed up on my plants though... so more concerned how I try to make lemonade with what I got... next year I will prevent this shit

Brendan311 said:

Thanks, yeah, preventative is obviously the way to go. I was simply a newbie and I had no idea what budworms were or where they came from until they showed up on my plants though... so more concerned how I try to make lemonade with what I got... next year I will prevent this shit

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I probably say this too much, but a good caterpillar prevention method I discovered is paper wasps.
You look like you're in the burbs, so that's probably not a good option....

Brendan311 said:

try to make lemonade with what I got

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If there's any sugar leaves, or buds remaining intact that are "brown rot" (early-stage bud-rot, a foul, black bubbling of the sugar leaves seen through a 60x loupe) that is impossible to smoke without gagging on the tobacco-like inhale. You can however take this worthless collection of trichomes and make superior ice-water bubble hash without the bad taste. I've made at least 37g's of the stuff as a test for a neighbor with a pile of it on his hands, using 250g's of de-stemmed bud and leaf. The best tip I have discovered it to use alot of half-moon ice cubes inside the 220-zippered bag for extracting the most trichs from what you have.