Need some good advice for using Botanicare Cal-Mag plus

kristoffolese

kristoffolese

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
couldnt it just be an mg problem? no sense to add more cal if i dont need it? could too much cal cause mg lock out?
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No, cal will not cause mag lockout. They wouldnt always sell calcium & magnesium together if that were the case. Youre thinking of iron & manganese. Iron CAN cause manganese lockout, but that is a pretty rare problem for modern growers. Your plant NEEDS calcium, just as it does mag. Thats my gripe with epsom salt... if youre in soil, then you should be fine, unless youre using total crap soil w/no amendments/added minerals. But soilless grows HAVE to add calcium or youre plants wont get it - as with ALL nutes in an inert-medium grow (coco, rockwool, perlite, hydroton, etc), if you dont add them, your plant doesnt get them. Unlike good soil, which contains a boat load of minerals & other beneficials. Epsom salt DOES work well to provide mag to the ladies... but you can definitely run into calcium issues if youre growing hydro/coco & you use epsom salt instead of cal mag. ESPECIALLY if youre using RO water.
Also - I saw that soneone said to use 2 tablespoons per gallon of epsom salt... WAAAY too much... unless youre just flooding them with it on a one time basis to deal with a massive deficiency, you will fry the living hell out of your soil if you add 2tablespoons of epsom/gallon throughout the grow. Epsom salt seem to build up in the soil more than regular synthetic nutes... not sure why. But flush regularly, check your runoff ppm & ph. Because epsom does tend to build up more severely. I say 1/2-1 teaspoon/gallon if youre using it regularly. But again, do NOT add 2 tablespoons/gallon epsom salt to your water. Youre after a teaspoon, or FRACTIONS of a teaspoon per gallon. 1/2 teaspoon/gallon is a good place to start... but why not just buy some Cal mag? If youre poor like me, & cant afford a full bottle, msg me privately & I can refer you to a hydro shop that sells little bottles if it online - they just take it& fill up a bunch of little 2oz, 4oz, etc, bottles that u can buy from them for under $10. I think I paid ~$8 for a 4oz bottle of cal mag plus, plus shipping. I used to do the elsom salt thing, too (still have the carton of it lol), but a small bottle of cal mag plus lasts me months, & is just a few bucks more... literally, just $2-$3 more. Everyone has to cut corners from time to time. But I say, spend the extra $3 & get some proper botanicare cal mag plus :)
 
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natureboygrower

natureboygrower

Well-Known Member
kristoffolese said:
No, cal will not cause mag lockout. They wouldnt always sell calcium & magnesium together if that were the case. Youre thinking of iron & manganese. Iron CAN cause manganese lockout, but that is a pretty rare problem for modern growers. Your plant NEEDS calcium, just as it does mag. Thats my gripe with epsom salt... if youre in soil, then you should be fine, unless youre using total crap soil w/no amendments/added minerals. But soilless grows HAVE to add calcium or youre plants wont get it - as with ALL nutes in an inert-medium grow (coco, rockwool, perlite, hydroton, etc), if you dont add them, your plant doesnt get them. Unlike good soil, which contains a boat load of minerals & other beneficials. Epsom salt DOES work well to provide mag to the ladies... but you can definitely run into calcium issues if youre growing hydro/coco & you use epsom salt instead of cal mag. ESPECIALLY if youre using RO water.
Also - I saw that soneone said to use 2 tablespoons per gallon of epsom salt... WAAAY too much... unless youre just flooding them with it on a one time basis to deal with a massive deficiency, you wilk fry the living hell out of your soil if you add 2tablespoons of epsom/gallon theoughout the grow. Epsom salts seem to build up in the soil more than even synthetic nutes... not sure why. But flush regularly, check your runoff ppm & ph. Because epsom does tend to build up more severely. I say 1/2-1 teaspoon/gallon if youre using it regularly. But again, do not add 2 tablespoons/gallon epsom salt to your water. Youre after a teaspoon, or FRACTIONS of a teaspoon per gallon. 1/2 teaspoon/gallon is a good place to start... but why not just buy some Cal mag? If youre poor like me, & cant afford a full bottle, msg me privately & I can refer you to a hydro shop that sells little bottles if it online - they just take it& fill up a bunch of little 2oz, 4oz, etc, bottles that u can buy from them for under $10. I think I paid ~$8 for a 4oz bottle of cal mag plus, plus shipping. I used to do the elsom salt thing, too (still have the carton of it lol), but a small bottle of cal mag plus lasts me months, & is just a few bucks more... literally, just $2-$3 more. Everyone has to cut corners from time to time. But I say, spend the extra $3 & get some proper botanicare cal mag plus :)
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thank you for your thought out response.i am in perlite,my nutes contain 8% cal and my problem appears(to me) to be specifically mg.(i'll post a pic when im home) i dont use ro water,im on well water that should contain a lot of minerals.i like foliar feeding because i can do it more often and not worry about oversaturating my soil.i have ff with botanicares calmag(i have a bottle) and fulvex(which has mg) with not many results.tbh,its not that bad....yet.the problem really looks like mg so i thought if i pinpointed it by using the salts,it would at least give me an idea if i was on the right track.the pic is from a few weeks ago when i first noticed the problem.its more pronounced now.
 

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kristoffolese

kristoffolese

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
thank you for your thought out response.i am in perlite,my nutes contain 8% cal and my problem appears(to me) to be specifically mg.(i'll post a pic when im home) i dont use ro water,im on well water that should contain a lot of minerals.i like foliar feeding because i can do it more often and not worry about oversaturating my soil.i have ff with botanicares calmag(i have a bottle) and fulvex(which has mg) with not many results.tbh,its not that bad....yet.the problem really looks like mg so i thought if i pinpointed it by using the salts,it would at least give me an idea if i was on the right track.the pic is from a few weeks ago when i first noticed the problem.its more pronounced now.
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Youre thinking sounds spot on. Just keep in mind... when diagnosing a mag deficiency, you know its working & the plants are getting enough mag, when it stops getting worse - NOT when the damage disappears off the leaves. That is USUALLY permanent. A plant will simetimes be able to heal slight mag damage to leaves... but usually not. So ignore all the old mag damage (or just strip the affected leaves), and focus on new growth. If new growth is coming in rusted, or with hooked tips, etc, youre def low on mag. But if youre giving amoke mag & STILL deficient, I can almost guarantee a ph imbalance :( If thats the case, dont add any more mag - just flash flood them with properly ph'd water.
 
Stltoed

Stltoed

Well-Known Member
Dropastone said:
Thank brah. I'm subbed to the dwc grow bible as well. I'm just lurking and soaking it all in. I hope that thread explodes with a lot of good info. Maybe someday I will have something to contribute.

Well I'm off to bed, check ya later, I'm sure are paths will cross again.

Peace.
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I was under the impression that it's really hard to OD on Calcium, and Ph is crtical for its uptake.

Also, molasses is suicide in hydro.
 
kristoffolese

kristoffolese

Well-Known Member
Stltoed said:
I was under the impression that it's really hard to OD on Calcium, and Ph is crtical for its uptake.

Also, molasses is suicide in hydro.
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Noooo... while an actual cal or mag toxicity may be a bit on the uncommon side, using too much cal/mag can cause major nutrient lockouts. Mag, is especially harmful to plant metabolism if it builds up in the soil. Decreases water movement, its ability to diffuse/absorb properly. You'll find that build ups of most any nute will cause problems by hindering the absorption of OTHER nutes. Too much phosphorous, for instance, can lock u out of cal/mag. So if you're giving and giving & increasing your cal mag, & still a cal/mag deficiency persists/gets worse, you need to flush w/pure water ASAP, because you're likely just suffering from an over abundance of bloom nutes in the soil.
 
kristoffolese

kristoffolese

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
good question.this is my first indoor and moving inside from being an organic soil outdoor guy,i was hoping not to mess with ph or ec.wishful thinking lol.ive got a couple bluelab meters coming along in the mail.
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If you're running soil, a simple liquid ph kit (like $5-$10) from General hydroponics is plenty good enough. I've got my trusty Milwaukee p-51, but haven't used it more than once or twice all year (am in soil now). I just use the cheapy GH ph kit and never have any issues. But I'll admit to knowing in advance what my tap ppm & ph is, as well as what my feed water's ppm/ph will be, just based on the concentrations I've given. Keep a grow journal - write down how much of what nutrient you use each week& what the ph & ppm is running at with each mix, as well as any adverse reactions (burnt tips, nitrogen "clawing", phos "Curling/narrowing",etc). This info can help you get a feel for what does what, and what nutrient levels work best with the water you're using.
 
Stltoed

Stltoed

Well-Known Member
kristoffolese said:
Noooo... while an actual cal or mag toxicity may be a bit on the uncommon side, using too much cal/mag can cause major nutrient lockouts. Mag, is especially harmful to plant metabolism if it builds up in the soil. Decreases water movement, its ability to diffuse/absorb properly. You'll find that build ups of most any nute will cause problems by hindering the absorption of OTHER nutes. Too much phosphorous, for instance, can lock u out of cal/mag. So if you're giving and giving & increasing your cal mag, & still a cal/mag deficiency persists/gets worse, you need to flush w/pure water ASAP, because you're likely just suffering from an over abundance of bloom nutes in the soil.
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Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up
 
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