New to organics

Going to be doing an outdoor grow this year but I want a kick ass organic soil mix that can last till the end of the cycle with no teas just water I will be growing in 30 gallon pots and have my water supply close ..I've read subcools mix and a couple other mix I was hoping to get something like that going but I'm currently stuck with promix premium potting soil 90 gallons of it or 3 ,3.8 cubic feet bails of it a 3.8 cubic foot bail of perlite I am willing to buy whatever amendments I need I also have a couple 50 L bags of canna coco not sure if this helps but if anyone could help me that would be awesome guys

Chrissa said:

Going to be doing an outdoor grow this year but I want a kick ass organic soil mix that can last till the end of the cycle with no teas just water I will be growing in 30 gallon pots and have my water supply close ..I've read subcools mix and a couple other mix I was hoping to get something like that going but I'm currently stuck with promix premium potting soil 90 gallons of it or 3 ,3.8 cubic feet bails of it a 3.8 cubic foot bail of perlite I am willing to buy whatever amendments I need I also have a couple 50 L bags of canna coco not sure if this helps but if anyone could help me that would be awesome guys

Click to expand...

I really dont feel that I am good enough to bark instruction at people, so I waited to see if someone else would help 1st... I am having trouble seeing your question, are you asking about amendments or how everything goes together as a whole?

I am not telling you to buy from this company, but they do have good information on their site! They really promote Clackmas Coots' style for no till, but others use their "nutrient craft blend". If you read in the blog section that I listed, you will see the reason to not use blood/bone meal. My friends on here got me using things from the ocean rather than a slaughter house. SuperSoil has a lot of slaughterhouse by-products. Here is also the list from the Nutrient Craft Blend, I am not telling you to buy it, but you can use the list to source your own! Notice there is no cow or chicken but there is fish and crab ect... The ratio that you want for you soil is 1:1:1. That makes 3 equal parts. 1 part soil, 1 part aeration, 1 part compost or vermicompost. So 100 gallons would be 33 gals each. It explains it better in the link, its a good read.

http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news?page=2

Ingredients all Equal by Weight:

1. Acadian Kelp Meal
2. Ahimsa Neem/Karanja Cake
3. Alfalfa Meal
4. CalPhos
5. Camelina Meal
6. Crustacean Meal
7. Fish Meal
8. 3x Fish Bone Meal
9. Soybean Meal
10. Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite
11. Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties)
12. Azomite
13. Basalt - Local Colorado
14. Gypsum
15. Oyster Flour

When I was building my mustang, I came across a package deal that I liked but it almost costed $3,000. I didnt need every part to be brand new, so I bought certain things used. The point is that I used Summit racing to give me ideas but I didnt buy their package deal...If you can find the things on the list and source them locally, then go for it...

MustangStudFarm said:

When I was building my mustang, I came across a package deal that I liked but it almost costed $3,000. I didnt need every part to be brand new, so I bought certain things used. The point is that I used Summit racing to give me ideas but I didnt buy their package deal...If you can find the things on the list and source them locally, then go for it...

Click to expand...

a good analogy

Chrissa said:

Going to be doing an outdoor grow this year but I want a kick ass organic soil mix that can last till the end of the cycle with no teas just water I will be growing in 30 gallon pots and have my water supply close ..I've read subcools mix and a couple other mix I was hoping to get something like that going but I'm currently stuck with promix premium potting soil 90 gallons of it or 3 ,3.8 cubic feet bails of it a 3.8 cubic foot bail of perlite I am willing to buy whatever amendments I need I also have a couple 50 L bags of canna coco not sure if this helps but if anyone could help me that would be awesome guys

Click to expand...

ok.. so first..
30 gallons isn't nearly enough for an outdoor water-only
we ran like 100 gallons and they got rootbound in those even.
i'd go a minimum of at least 50 gallons (two 45 gals?)
concentrate on building a soil with SLOW release amendments.
avoid highly soluble nutrients also.
and with pro-mix as the base i'd source as much wormcastings or quality humus as you can find.
you'll need longterm liming agents too

I'd love to grow outside, it's not an option here, legally or temperately, maybe in light supplemented greenhouses or with really fast indica, I'm not sure. I am interested though because I've started growing some fruit and veg, mainly in containers at the moment, but hopefully with somewhere more permanent to start growing soon.

My question is............if you're growing outdoors, would it not be better to actually grow in the ground? Obviously it'd massively depend on the quality of your ground soil. But even if you did a raised bed on the ground, with some of your own mixed soil/compost, poor soil underneath would start turning into good soil and give you multiple benefits over containers. ie instant access to IMO's, vastly increased space for roots, free nutrients?

DonBrennon said:

I'd love to grow outside, it's not an option here, legally or temperately, maybe in light supplemented greenhouses or with really fast indica, I'm not sure. I am interested though because I've started growing some fruit and veg, mainly in containers at the moment, but hopefully with somewhere more permanent to start growing soon.

My question is............if you're growing outdoors, would it not be better to actually grow in the ground? Obviously it'd massively depend on the quality of your ground soil. But even if you did a raised bed on the ground, with some of your own mixed soil/compost, poor soil underneath would start turning into good soil and give you multiple benefits over containers. ie instant access to IMO's, vastly increased space for roots, free nutrients?

Click to expand...

in a perfect world, yea.
the issue I've seen with in-ground grows is the water drainage, the type of ground/soil I have is too thick, too clay'ey
I've dug out a BUNCH of soil and then filled with an amended soil, and that works ok, but you need good drainage on the native soil too.
Depending on the ground, it's possible, but you need "normal" groundsoil.
We have this thick ass clay that is WAY too thick

greasemonkeymann said:

ok.. so first..
30 gallons isn't nearly enough for an outdoor water-only
we ran like 100 gallons and they got rootbound in those even.
i'd go a minimum of at least 50 gallons (two 45 gals?)
concentrate on building a soil with SLOW release amendments.
avoid highly soluble nutrients also.
and with pro-mix as the base i'd source as much wormcastings or quality humus as you can find.
you'll need longterm liming agents too

Click to expand...

Ok we'l I can get more 4cubic feet bails of promix but that's the best soil I can get here the rest is all miracle grow lol , garbage.. Anyways I have 90 pounds of EWC and the amendments I have access too fishboNE meal, bone meal, glacial rock dust, Mined potassium sulfate, fossilized carbon complex, rock phosophate, green sand, kelp meal , gypsum, bloom bat guano, azomite,blood meal, powdered humid acid,dolomite lime and mycorhizae I also have 3.8'cubic feet of perlite and few bags of coco, what are your recommendations and I have 45 days for it to cook any advice and recipes

Chrissa said:

Ok we'l I can get more 4cubic feet bails of promix but that's the best soil I can get here the rest is all miracle grow lol , garbage.. Anyways I have 90 pounds of EWC and the amendments I have access too fishboNE meal, bone meal, glacial rock dust, Mined potassium sulfate, fossilized carbon complex, rock phosophate, green sand, kelp meal , gypsum, bloom bat guano, azomite,blood meal, powdered humid acid,dolomite lime and mycorhizae I also have 3.8'cubic feet of perlite and few bags of coco, what are your recommendations and I have 45 days for it to cook any advice and recipes

Click to expand...

hmmm... well...
you don't need half of those ingredients...
considering it's a peat mix you'll want crab meal and oyster flour if possible, If not you can add dolomite
I'd use fishbone meal instead of bovine bone meal, for multiple reasons
the problem with most of your nutrients is that they are shortterm and soluble, the exact opposite of what you want for an outdoor grow (especially if in small >100 gal-pots)
the EWC is golden, but considering it's heavy I imagine 90lbs is less than a couple cubic feet
of those i'd not use
azomite, bone meal, mined potassium, bat guano, blood meal, greensand, and the mychorrizhae is awesome but useless unless you physically apply it on the roots, in a soil mix it's long gone during cycling, if it's not on a root host.
try and find crab or shrimp meals, and neem meal. Maybe fish meal too.
If that's the ONLY amendments available, then we can maybe figure something else out

greasemonkeymann said:

hmmm... well...
you don't need half of those ingredients...
considering it's a peat mix you'll want crab meal and oyster flour if possible, If not you can add dolomite
I'd use fishbone meal instead of bovine bone meal, for multiple reasons
the problem with most of your nutrients is that they are shortterm and soluble, the exact opposite of what you want for an outdoor grow (especially if in small >100 gal-pots)
the EWC is golden, but considering it's heavy I imagine 90lbs is less than a couple cubic feet
of those i'd not use
azomite, bone meal, mined potassium, bat guano, blood meal, greensand, and the mychorrizhae is awesome but useless unless you physically apply it on the roots, in a soil mix it's long gone during cycling, if it's not on a root host.
try and find crab or shrimp meals, and neem meal. Maybe fish meal too.
If that's the ONLY amendments available, then we can maybe figure something else out

Click to expand...

Sorry dude I have very little selection that list was the only amendments I can get can we work with it I'm pretty sure I have almost everything subcool uses in his mix could be wrong tho lol

It is astounding that so many newer members come to the organic section with SuperSoil in mind. I watched 250+ episodes of Subcool TV on Youtube. SuperSoil is not that great! Sub admitted that he got the recipe from someone else, and it is always changing... GreaseMonkey has spent the last year or so getting me off of SS. If you listen to anyone on here, listen to Grease!!!

You need 30gal of compost for 90 gal container. I skipped on it for a while and I was being hard headed about it, but it is important. I thought that my brewed tea would suffice, but it didnt!

Chrissa said:

Sorry dude I have very little selection that list was the only amendments I can get can we work with it I'm pretty sure I have almost everything subcool uses in his mix could be wrong tho lol

Click to expand...

ummm well...
it's going to be difficult.. all those are soluble, all those increase the ph, and all those are washed away LONG before the outdoor grow needs it.
bovine bone meal can kill you, not to mention the ph required to get it even useable is acidic, well beyond the liking of cannabis.
So use the FBM instead.
I suppose bloodmeal is your nitrogen input, i'd keep the guanos for topdress or teas later, cuz they'll need the nitrogen in those smaller pots..
still don't need half of those ingredients though, more isn't always better
careful with the potassium inputs

Chrissa said:

Ok we'l I can get more 4cubic feet bails of promix but that's the best soil I can get here the rest is all miracle grow lol , garbage.. Anyways I have 90 pounds of EWC and the amendments I have access too fishboNE meal, bone meal, glacial rock dust, Mined potassium sulfate, fossilized carbon complex, rock phosophate, green sand, kelp meal , gypsum, bloom bat guano, azomite,blood meal, powdered humid acid,dolomite lime and mycorhizae I also have 3.8'cubic feet of perlite and few bags of coco, what are your recommendations and I have 45 days for it to cook any advice and recipes

Click to expand...

In your situation what I'd use

Peat 35%
Ewc 25%
Perlite 40%

1/4 cup per cu ft-
Fish bone meal
Bloom guano

1/2 cup per cu ft-
Kelp
Gypsum
Dolomite lime

4-5 cups per cu ft-
Glacial rock dust

Top dress regularly with Guanos and kelp and you should be fine.

im doing fermented food scraps. it's more than enough for a plant all the way through flowering. i did however start seeds in a vegging mix of just peat moss, compost, sandy loam, and bokashi. but the fermented food scraps get burried for 2 weeks and only requires waterings. in fact, if i feed them any more i could burn them.

there were a few hicups from weather, ants and over watering from poor care but here's a link to the progress. http://rollitup.org/t/spring-flowers-fkg-indoor-outdoor.888371/page-2#post-12268715

it's utilizing lactobacillus and purple sulfur bacteria's abilities to pre digest organic matter and i end up spending only a few dollars a year on my agriculture practices.

MistaRasta said:

In your situation what I'd use

Peat 35%
Ewc 25%
Perlite 40%

1/4 cup per cu ft-
Fish bone meal
Bloom guano

1/2 cup per cu ft-
Kelp
Gypsum
Dolomite lime

4-5 cups per cu ft-
Glacial rock dust

Top dress regularly with Guanos and kelp and you should be fine.

Click to expand...

So ur saying my medium should contain more perlite than anything ????

Chrissa said:

So ur saying my medium should contain more perlite than anything ????

Click to expand...

the peat and compost still make up 60% of the mix. Which gives you a nice (almost) even ratio..

I used to do everything in thirds, found it to be a little heavy and a little harsh on the roots. Started fluffing up my mix a bit and better results. To each their own

Chrissa said:

So ur saying my medium should contain more perlite than anything ????

Click to expand...

On contrary i wouldn't use perlite. Ever. For any reason. Waste of money. Only retains water and there are actual organic methods to do that for free. In what jungle does perlite fall from the trees and mix into the soil......?

Sry bout the ranting

You could use coconut husk for aeration and water holding. Microbes do well in it when conditions are good, however you will have k leaching after breakdown occurs. Usually around the 30 day mark or so. If you back off on kelp meal a bit you could use that.

This is a bit late but maybe it will help someone.

iHearAll said:

On contrary i wouldn't use perlite. Ever. For any reason. Waste of money. Only retains water and there are actual organic methods to do that for free. In what jungle does perlite fall from the trees and mix into the soil......?

Sry bout the ranting

Click to expand...

never heard anyone so adamantly against perlite...
any reasoning behind it?.
and I wouldn't really say it retains much water.. damn near floats
I don't prefer perlite either but can't see any reason to be against it
and your analogy for the jungle is true, but not really relative..
where do plants get perfect mixes of peat moss, fish bone meal, neem meal, guano etc..?
that NEVER happens in nature.
what we do is in no way a replication of nature, when you really think about it.

MistaRasta said:

the peat and compost still make up 60% of the mix. Which gives you a nice (almost) even ratio..

I used to do everything in thirds, found it to be a little heavy and a little harsh on the roots. Started fluffing up my mix a bit and better results. To each their own

Click to expand...

I have probably a 50% aeration ratio.
between the biochar, volcanic rock, pumice, perlite, rotted tree chunks, strips of coco wool...
at least
especially if you amend with homemade worm castings, those are THICK