Nitrogen deficiency? Nutrient lockout? Help pls!

Hi fellas! How are you?

Not a native english speaker, so.. sorry for my mistakes.

First things first: I'm a begginer grower. I previously had a few crops but in very precarious conditions. This is the first time that i face growing with proper equipment. Although I lack experience, I have soaked myself in information through several months of studying, trying to prepare myself for this moment.

Resume for a quick read:

Started on Nov 19 with 3 x Interelec Depot 50w LED lighting (this will be used in Veg room in the future) while waiting for the Mars Led Sunflash 153 to arrive.

- Nov 19 - Dec 5: 21°-25° lights on / 17°-20° lights off - low humidity (25% - 55% with luck).

- Dec 5 on: Humidifier arrives: 22°- 25° lights on / 18° - 20° lights off - humidity 40% - 60%. I made some experiments with the humidifier intensity and intraction/extraction intervals but they didn't really work, as humidity was changing too much and thought that this could stress the plant, as stomas would open and close all the time. Now, intraction/extraction and the humidifier are on 24/7, having constant 50% (+- 5%) during light time and 60% during darkness period.

- Nov 19 - Clones arrive in small plastic glasses.



- Nov 21 - Transplanted 4 to 5 lts pot. Irrigated mycorrhizae solution after transplant.



- Nov 25 - Transplanted the other 3 to 5 lts pot. This time, I mixed the mycorrhizae with the substrate before transplant instead.



Nitrogen deficiency shows in lower leaves after two days.

The plants were growing really slow and the colour started to get more yellow. The leaves started to show burnt tips.



- Dec 1 - River Haze (silver seeds) clone arrived in inert Coco mix .

- Dec 3 - Irrigated 250 ml w/ NPK+ / I thought ph was 6.2 - but miscalibration added +1 full stop, so real pH was 5.2. EC was 0.124.



- Dec 7 - Irrigated 250ml w/ mycorrhizae. After not seeing any improvement and trying to cross out problems from the list, I discovered pH meter was not properly calibrated. Had to wait until the substrate dried before irrigating again with a proper pH.

- Dec 12 - Once the substrate dried, I applied foliar NPK+ to 1 ml/l solution and irrigated 100ml with the same concentration. Mars Led Sunflash 153 arrived.

- Dec 13 - Activated carbon water filter arrived.

- Dec 14 - Once the substrate dried, I irrigated 300ml NPK+ to 3ml/l solution with filtered water - except River Haze: close to 60ml. pH 6.2.

Plants started to slowly show improvement: Recovered some growing rhythm, but still slow - New leaves start to show better green colour.

- Dec 15 - River Haze clone started to show nitrogen deficiency - transplanted to 5 lts pot





Dec 18 - Today I put the LED panel a 12 cm up to check if they may be suffering from light stress. It was 30cm from the beggining and now it is 42 cm.

Dec 19 - Tomorrow, I will dose up the NPK+ fertilizer at 4 ml/l an will irrigate 300 ml.

I was afraid of having a nutrient lockout, but as i'm using organic fertilizers which are not supposed to add salts to the substrate that could block the osmosis process of the roots to absorb the nutrients, I'm a bit doubtful about it.

What do you think? I'm open to all comments and will thank you in advance for any help/insight you can give me.

Grow room:

Cultivarg Full cycle Indoor tent 80x2: Veg: 0.60 x 0.80 / Flower: 1mt x 0.80. Now using Flowering space as it's the first cycle // Nov 19 - Dec 12: 3x Interelec Depot 50w LED lighting - Dec 12 on: Mars Led Sunflash 153 (click) - 30 cm from taller plants from scratch // Extraction: GHP TT Max 125 5" (click) / Intraction: GHP Axial Inline 125 5" (click) // Zeolite odor filter: 4" - 35 cm long // Humidifier (click) // Pots: Mad Rocket 5 lts (click) // Substrate: Santa Planta Super Mix - pH 6.5 with peat, perlite, vermiculite, compost, worm castings, and bone and blood meal. // HTC-1 Thermo-Hygrometer // Chinese pH meter // Chinese EC meter // Namasté Nutrients Nutripack

Hello wazzup?

descon0c1do said:

will irrigate 300 ml.

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descon0c1do said:

Irrigated 250ml w/

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descon0c1do said:

and irrigated 100ml

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in soil you water the whole pot until all soil is moist, then wait until pot is light/earth dry again.

descon0c1do said:

pH 6.2.

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descon0c1do said:

pH was 5.2.

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in soil target pH is 6.5. If too acidic then uptake of Ca Mg will be limited. Your plants look like this is the case. Perhaps feed pH 6.8 for 1-2 times, then return to pH 6.5

descon0c1do said:

Dec 3 - Irrigated 250 ml w/ NPK+ [...] EC was 0.124.

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How can the EC be so low when, in fact, alone the CalMag should be a minimum of EC 0.2?

Your plants are looking deficient, would give them:
- demineralized water #
+ CalMag EC=0.4
+ NPK EC=1.0
then pH to 6.8
and water the whole pots until 20% runoff, which you immediately throw away.





BTW I think you need more light wattage for flower later... but first get these little brats to grow greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen !!!

As a backyard grower I see some familiar issues. These are just tips that work for me.

If not watering with tap water? It is suggested for it's trace minerals and disinfecting properties. RO, and distilled are best for hydro or wet sets. You have a deficiency from water or ph. I use a ph of 6.2 -6.6 in pots and soil. If possible. Purchase fish emulsion and epsoms salt. Make a foliar spray of 1 Tsp fish emulsion, 1/4 Tsp epsoms salt per gallon of water. Spray plants once in morning for 2 days. Discard spray bottle contents. No good 3rd day. Plant will regain color. Give time to adjust nute issues.

And lights will not produce heavy yield. 1/3 needed watts at least. Best of luck.

Second correction. Be dicktive text. 1Tsp fish, 1/4Tsp epsoms salt to 1 Qt. water.. GRRR!

Hi Kassiopeija, thank you very much for your quick answer!

i'll try to clarify some decisions.

in soil you water the whole pot until all soil is moist, then wait until pot is light/earth dry again.

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When transplanted, I started irrigating 500ml once a week but the plants were showing signs of over-watering, so i decided to irrigate 250ml twice a week instead of 500ml until they grow a little bit to avoid drowning their roots. I will take your advice and will water 500ml once a week again, as they grew 12 cm since I took that decision.

in soil target pH is 6.5. If too acidic then uptake of Ca Mg will be limited. Your plants look like this is the case. Perhaps feed pH 6.8 for 1-2 times, then return to pH 6.5

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I know 6.5 is the correct pH for soil. I started watering 6.0 when the clones arrived and the plan was going up 0.1 each week til 6.3 during veg and then from 6.3 to 6.5 (week 8-12) and 6.2-6.5 (week 12-16) during flowering. The miscalibration of my meter threw all my plans to the garbage but I was trying to hold on to it as much as I could. I think i will have to make the veg period longer to give them time to grow properly.

How can the EC be so low when, in fact, alone the CalMag should be a minimum of EC 0.2?

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The EC of the water alone is low: 0.1. I don't have CalMag solution available at the moment to raise it up. I live in Tierra del Fuego, which is an island the southernmost corner of the american continent (right before antarctica), so I already bought it from Buenos Aires but it's gonna take one more week for it to arrive.

Your plants are looking deficient, would give them:
- demineralized water #
+ CalMag EC=0.4
+ NPK EC=1.0

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so, you mean using demineralized water and adding CalMag until EC=0.4 and then adding NPK until EC is 1.0 in the same solution?

then pH to 6.8 and water the whole pots until 20% runoff, which you immediately throw away.

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Will do, thanks!

BTW I think you need more light wattage for flower later..

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.

The lights are not the ones in the pictures anymore, those are going to be used in the veg room only.

This down here is the PPFD graphic for the lamp i will be using during the flowering stage, which is recommended for 1mt x 1mt by the manufacturer, but I think fits an 0.80x0.80 better. I have ony 10cm wider on each side (1mt x 0.80).



as my flowering space is a rectangle, not a square, I placed the lamp so i get this:



and the rest goes to the walls and rebounds back.

You can check the rest of the detailes here: https://www.mars.com.ar/sunflash-153

Still think I'm gonna need more wattage?

but first get these little brats to grow greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen !!!

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Will do! Thanks for taking the time to reply!!!

If not watering with tap water?

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Yes sir! I'm using tap water. Before having the filter, i'd leave it for a minimum of 72 hs in 5 lts bottles to wait for chlorine to evaporate. As i'm using mycorrhizae, which is really sensitive to chlorine, I decided to buy this activated carbon filter for water and run the tap water through, which completely removes chlorine so i'm sure the mycorrhizae and other micro-organisms present in the substrate are not being killed .

If possible. Purchase fish emulsion and epsoms salt. Make a foliar spray of 1 Tsp fish emulsion, 1/4 Tsp epsoms salt per gallon of water. Spray plants once in morning for 2 days. Discard spray bottle contents. No good 3rd day. Plant will regain color. Give time to adjust nute issues.

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I really appreciate your advice but i'm vegan, so no fish emulsion for my plants!

And lights will not produce heavy yield. 1/3 needed watts at least. Best of luck.

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As I told Kassiopeija in my previous answer, the ones in the pictures are not going to be the light used in flowering. Those will be used in the veg room only.

This is the panel i'm using now: https://www.mars.com.ar/sunflash-153

And this is the PPFD measuring it gives:



as my flowering space is a rectangle, not a square, I placed the lamp so i get this:



And the rest goes to the walls and rebounds back.

Still think I'm gonna need more wattage?

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, much appreciated!

Hello,Starting in your soil you shouldn't have to add anything,no phing no food.By the looks of your plants your soil is terrible.
Moving forward Id suggest building your own soil,its easy to do.

For your current problem are you able to get good fresh EWC? Also some dry fertilizer? You mentioned your fertilizer?What is it post a photo.

Ok i see you posted the fertilizer,Hard to understand lol.
What did you use to ph down your water?
I see your water is .1 ec what is the ph?

That one clone came to you in coco,thats trouble it needed a lot of food and different ph.
Did the other clones come in different soil? Or coco also?

Hi Kyle! Thanks for your reply.

By the looks of your plants your soil is terrible..

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I would blame the miscalibrated pH meter more than the soil. I irrigated with water that was too acidic (changing per week 5.0/5.1/5.2) thinking I was putting 6.0/6.1/6.2. Once I realized and started watering with the correct pH, the plants started to show some signs of improvement (not enough though).

I've got two friends that have been using this soil for many crops already and they're having fabulous results.

Moving forward Id suggest building your own soil,its easy to do.

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I thought of doing it, but as I live in a very remote place, I couldn't find all the things I'd like to use for the soul and would have had to wait weeks until they arrive from the north (+3000km truck trip). The clones were waiting for me and couldn't wait any longer. I will try to do it for my next crop though, now that I have enough time to wait for the ingredients.

For your current problem are you able to get good fresh EWC? Also some dry fertilizer? You mentioned your fertilizer?What is it post a photo.

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Fresh EWC? You mean the EC without fertilizer? (sorry, English isn't my native language).

The current EC for the filtered water (activated carbon filter to remove chlorine) i'm using is 0.1. I don't know what you mean by dry fertilizer.. powder?

I'm using this one, which is liquid and has got N 7.2 P 2 K 10 :https://www.namastenutrientes.com/fertilizante_oro_negro.php

Thanks again!

Cheers!

myke said:

Ok i see you posted the fertilizer,Hard to understand lol.

What did you use to ph down your water?

I see your water is .1 ec what is the ph?

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The pH of tap water is between 7.4 and 7.8.


I use this Eden's PH less, which is 75% phosphoric acid. Once filtered, I measure pH for the water without the fertilizer and adjust, then add the fertilizer and adjust again if needed.

Add fertilizer then ph. Don’t ph twice.

I would just use plain tap. ph water in soil is pointless.

EWC is earth worm castings.

myke said:

That one clone came to you in coco,thats trouble it needed a lot of food and different ph.
Did the other clones come in different soil? Or coco also?

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The River Haze is the only one that came in Coco. I gave it 60ml NPK at 2ml/l to feed it for the days it spent on the small pot it came, now it was transplanted to the same soil I'm using for the rest. The other ones had the same soil I use.

Ok i see,those look like cannabis specific fertilizer.So mix some to get target EC to 1.
Your pots have slots in them? makes it hard to water ?.so pour slowly so it all gets water.

I thought you were growing organic but since your adding fertilizer im not sure.

So i think when you added the ph down that messed up your soil,Your soil would be similar to what we have. Fox Farm.
So now that youve added ph down and fertilizer will need to treat them as an inert medium.
The soil had food in it and ph buffers,you could have just gave it plain water.

VPD may be causing issues as well. LEDs usually need more heat and a little less RH because of the lack of IR radiation on the leaves.
I remember the first time I switched from HPS to LED my grow was all out of whack.
VPD was never something I was even aware of because I had used HPS/MH for decades.

Do you have epsom salts? Your wife/mom should have some.unscented.

You have EC meter right?

Your plants need food but we dont know what is in your pots now.So mix up some food to .7 EC pour enough in to get some runoff.We need to remove whats in your pots now.I have a feeling your not watering enough to remove all the fertilizer youve given them in the last two weeks.So its starting to build up.

Hi! Thanks for your answer!

Wattzzup said:

Add fertilizer then ph. Don’t ph twice.

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Ok! Makes sense, that would require less use of phosphoric acid. Thanks.

I would just use plain tap. ph water in soil is pointless.

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You mean to not measure the PH and use it as it comes out of the tap? For what I've read from all of he sources I consulted, they strongly advice to measure pH for growing with soil.

EWC is earth worm castings.

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Thanks for clarifying!

descon0c1do said:

The River Haze is the only one that came in Coco. I gave it 60ml NPK at 2ml/l to feed it for the days it spent on the small pot it came, now it was transplanted to the same soil I'm using for the rest. The other ones had the same soil I use.

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So this one needed to be fed to runoff,you let it get dry? That started the problems.It needed food every second day and enough to get run off to get rid of the extra salts.When you transplanted it these salt build ups went along for the ride.So now your feeding it more but no runoff so the build up continues.