Nitrogen Deficiency with Nute burns?

Hey all,

Heres my basic info:
-4 Diesel Ryders
-almost 4 weeks old, been in flowering for about a week and a half
-growing in 1 gal containers
-FFOF soil with 40% vermiculite and horticultural charcoal
-CFL lighting, about 350watts combined
-Grown in rubbermaid box
-Temps always between 75-81
-Humidity between 35 and 50%
-Using water from the gorcery store vending service, PH 6.2 (i mix a little water from home thats been filtered to get the PH to 6.5)
-FoxFarm BigBloom dosed 60% since the first week
-FoxFarm Grow Big started at the beginning of this week at 25% then second time at 75%
-Using organic molasses about once a week
-Lights have been on for 24/0 so far, started 22/2 last night, gonna put them on 20/4 by the end of the week just trying to do it gradually as to not shock them

So heres the deal, Beginning of week 3, I noticed that the bottom leaves on all my girls were beginning to yellow. I figured it was Nitrogen deficiency and that I should start dosing the Grow Big to replenish Nitrogen since it seems theyve sucked the FFOF soil dry. Did that at 25% as to introduce slowly. The next 2 days Im getting more yellowing and rust spot s are starting to appear on healthier leaves while the yellow ones were even more yellow with gray spots on them, they also began to dry up. I also noticed that some of the leaves are losing their color in the center of the leaf! its turning a paper like color. Ive checked my runoff water PH which is about 7.0, so I did a flush with plain, 6.5 ph water. Im not seeing much improvement, although Ive noticed that its mainly affecting older growth, although the new growth seems a bit stunted.

Any help would be much appricated! Happy growing and hopefully I can overcome this crisis!

Heres the pics. The last 2 pics are of the ladies a week earlier showing the early signs of the nitrogen deficiency

Thanks again

Anyone have any ideas? Tomorrow is their feeding day and I dont know what to do...

hey bro! Glad I saw the pics...Now that I notice that they are so low, I bet I may know whats causing it. And also, your plants are nice and bushy, and the leaves are the lowest ones, so no worries on peeling them off, it will act help. But, I think what may be causing it is the nute water coming into contact with them foilialry, or while your water the soil, they accidentally get wet with the water? I ask, bc I do this, as it is easy to do, and notice that it burns the lower leaves. They normally fall off anywho...hope this helps, but based on your pics, no worries as of yet bro, just peel em off and keep doing what you are doing IMO! Happy Growing!

I don't really see any nute burn... They look a bit over watered, but nothing too serious. I also use FoxFarm and have struggled with yellowing starting in about week 3-4 of flowering. What I've been doing to counter it is to add a little extra Grow Big past what the schedule recommends. You may want to try giving them a full strength feeding this time around and see how the react. If I'm not mistaken, week 3 of Flower in the FoxFarm schedule calls for some Grow Big, so try it out and see if it slows down your yellowing. Remember, those leaves won't go back to green, but they will stop yellowing any further if you stop the problem dead.

Well I gave them purified water at a PH of 6.3 with a little big bloom and some molasses a few days ago and yesterday I gave them some plain purified water. I did peel off a bunch of the lower leaves that were dying and basically in the soil. There are a few pics of leaves from all the plants and they all exhibit that same gray spotting starting around the tips and slowly eating away the leaves. What do you guys think this could be? As you can see in the pics, its starting to take over the other plants.
They were also a bit low on soil so I gave the a top dressing of FFOF and vermiculite, I also raised up the lights a bit more since i feel the added heat probably doesnt help. The flower sites still look healthy so far but I sttill dont like the fact that the plants are continually yellowing up. Im drawn between giving them Tiger bloom tomorrow, as I should be, or continue on with grow big and dose at full strength another feeding? Also I noticed that they dont smell as much as they did a few days ago, is that a sign of anything?

For the first 2 and half weeks of their lifes these girls were getting RO water with a PH around 7.2 I thought this was a bit high so I started buying this purified water with a PH of 6.3 but I dont think its helping. I may just go back to using the higher PHed water since I was having no problems before.

That is a bit more yellowing than I would expect, although mine have yellowed just as much. They def have great budsites formed, so go ahead and switch over to the Tiger Bloom. The leaves are very low so it still leads me to believe they are getting burnt by watering, but it could be more than that. I would go ahead and switch to a light(25 to 50%) dose of Tiger Bloom and see what happens. I have the rust spots too, and cant really figure it out. It has not affected the growth or productivity of my plants at all tho. Now that you have flushed for a watering, I would switch to the Tiger Bloom. No worries bro, your plants look great and the buds are good looking. And, as far as the smell, dont wory bout that either.

MattyMatt said:

That is a bit more yellowing than I would expect, although mine have yellowed just as much. They def have great budsites formed, so go ahead and switch over to the Tiger Bloom. The leaves are very low so it still leads me to believe they are getting burnt by watering, but it could be more than that. I would go ahead and switch to a light(25 to 50%) dose of Tiger Bloom and see what happens. I have the rust spots too, and cant really figure it out. It has not affected the growth or productivity of my plants at all tho. Now that you have flushed for a watering, I would switch to the Tiger Bloom. No worries bro, your plants look great and the buds are good looking. And, as far as the smell, dont wory bout that either.

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First off thanks as always matty, really appricate all the help. + rep, I would but RUI is telling me I gave you too much! Bahh I dont believe it! lol

I was thinking its a PH lockout. I thought it was from my higher phed home filtered water (7.3 ph) but now i think its from the store bought water with a ph of 6.3 I think the store bought water might be run through a water softener which is bad for plants. Ive thought about a zinc deficiency too but the veins dont seem to stay as green as every other example of a zinc deficiency that Ive seen.
Im starting to think heat stress might be playing a part too because I saw my temp shoot up past 85 a few times the last few days, so I added a little more airflow, got it steady at 76 and the girls are looking much healthier with less yellowing. Also gave them Tiger bloom today at about 25% with a few drops of Grow Big and half dose (2 tbsp) of Big Bloom. Lets see what happens...

Looks more like over watering to me

NewGrowth said:

Looks more like over watering to me

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that is exactly what I jumped back on to tell you Low, make sure not to overwater..They are "weeds" remember..LOL...now that you have watered, wait at least 3.5 days b4 water again....I think you are good to go tho bro! thanks for the rep..

Yeah dont over water and are you useing nutes every time you water? Autos are dont need nute every day you water. Try just water then nutes and so on....

SmokeNowSmokeLata said:

Yeah dont over water and are you useing nutes every time you water? Autos are dont need nute every day you water. Try just water then nutes and so on....

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he should be using nutes every other water, and I think he is...

MattyMatt said:

he should be using nutes every other water, and I think he is...

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Yea matty, I am nuting every other watering. The plain watering inbetween feedings will sometimes have 1tbsp of molasses or 1 tbsp of Big Bloom (25% of reccommended) but thats it. I have dosed all my nutes since ive started at 25% to 50% and i dont think ive gone over 50% yet. This whole thing is strange for me because it all started at what i thought was a nitrogen def. I bought Grow Big and dosed it at about 25% and its been all downhill since that.
Before the grow big, I was only using Big Bloom (at about 50%) and superthrive (during veg only and just a drop or 2)
I did feed them the tiger yesterday at about 25% with a FEW DROPS of grow big and 50% dose of Big Bloom. The girls are looking a bit healthier in their stature but the colors are getting even worse! They are getting more yellow and now some of the older leaves are getting covered in a maroon red or purple like coloring taking over the leaves. Also on one of them, the new growth on the top bud of the main cola, all the new growth leaves are turning purplish maroon around the edges. I though maybe this could be the plants response to a lot of light but then it shouldnt be on older fan leaves that are dying, it should be on the growth that is closest to the light.

Any help you guys can offer would be great, Ill get some pics up here in a few so you guys can take a look. Its starting to get really frustrating that these "weeds" are becoming harder to care for than trophy flowers! Im just going to let them do their thing and not touch them until friday and see what happens.

Thanks for the help and an early Happy Turkey Day to all!

Happy Turkey Day to you as well my friend....Ya know, I am a lil stumped as well. I have gotten the same problems as you have, and I hate to call them problems bc the plants are all healthy and grow like crazy, but still get yellowing leaves faster than norm and the maroon spots you talk of. But, you are doing the right thing by just letting them be for several days to see what happens. Ill look for the pics later...

I'm not stumped . . . stop overwatering. Plain water and make sure you get 20% run-off after the soil drys out over a few days.

MattyMatt said:

Happy Turkey Day to you as well my friend....Ya know, I am a lil stumped as well. I have gotten the same problems as you have, and I hate to call them problems bc the plants are all healthy and grow like crazy, but still get yellowing leaves faster than norm and the maroon spots you talk of. But, you are doing the right thing by just letting them be for several days to see what happens. Ill look for the pics later...

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Had to re up, got some purple widow and sour diesel for turkey day. You gotta blaze a few times in between so you can fit more of that delicious food in! lol

Back to business, youre right matty, they do seem to be growing and healthy, damn yellowing just worries me. Heres a bunch of pics, first 2 show all for ladies. The next 3 show my healthiest girl whos been yellowing the most. The next 4 show my second healthiest girl who has the most visable purpling on the leaves. The next four show the one girl who has bushed out the least and hasnt looked all that healthy since flowering started, but now all her new growths in the main bud are purple on the edge. I looked under her skirt, so to speak, and noticed that all the veins and stems on the underside are bright purple. I dont think its a deficiency, since she didnt react well to the grow big, so maybe its just a purple pheno? Last but certainly not least, these last 2 shots show the girl with the purple fan leaves, my second healthiest lady, producing some nice trics already! Shes really getting frosty!

Thanks for the help guys, I think all of you are right, Im just over watering and over reacting to it. Im trying to drop my newby-ness and just sit back and let em grow. Thanks again!

NewGrowth said:

I'm not stumped . . . stop overwatering. Plain water and make sure you get 20% run-off after the soil drys out over a few days.

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When you say 20% run-off do you mean of the water that was put in or of the plants container volume? I usually let it run off about a quarter cup and Im giving them 1 and 1/2 to 2 cups of water each watering, with or without nutes. Thats what I think you mean by 20% right?

I think Im just suffering from my actions, when they yellowed a bit I kinda freaked and tried to compensate. First timer mistake, Im gonna listen to you guys now and just take it easy.

Thanks for the input!

LowRydin said:

When you say 20% run-off do you mean of the water that was put in or of the plants container volume? I usually let it run off about a quarter cup and Im giving them 1 and 1/2 to 2 cups of water each watering, with or without nutes. Thats what I think you mean by 20% right?

I think Im just suffering from my actions, when they yellowed a bit I kinda freaked and tried to compensate. First timer mistake, Im gonna listen to you guys now and just take it easy.

Thanks for the input!

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20% of the volume of water you use to water should flow out the bottom of the pot when you water. Good luck bro

yeah the budsites are looking nice...Dont worry about the purpling, some of mine have done it too, its just the pheno..Your diesels are lil bushes compared to mine which are tall and will take longer to fill in...Yeah, its easy to worry about your lil babies too much. WHat proud parent wouldnt!? LOL Just try to water every 3.5 to 4 days and go from there..Your doing great, no worries! Your New Year will be filled with nice nuggets to blaze!

As for the Thanksgiving buds, I reupped tonight too bc I didnt want to dip into my stash without allowing them to cure more, so I got an 1/8 of some so called Blueberry Chemo. I will just say it gets the job done, but if this is whats going around, I have no worries about my AF competing with it! Ill post some updated pics soon....preview movie commercial for my precious babies...