Obamacare - What to do

Due to circumstances over the last two years, I stand to benefit from it, be it meager to what I did have but more then now.

What I don't understand is why are we listening the salesmen that are pushing the Hummers when the Kia's, Hyundia's, ect. are cheaper and more reliable.

It was said before, some countries can do it for 66% LESS.

I guess we just have to "look good" going down the road.

Grandpapy said:

Due to circumstances over the last two years, I stand to benefit from it, be it meager to what I did have but more then now.

What I don't understand is why are we listening the salesmen that are pushing the Hummers when the Kia's, Hyundia's, ect. are cheaper and more reliable.

It was said before, some countries can do it for 66% LESS.

I guess we just have to "look good" going down the road.

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Because Joe Lieberman said he would vote against universal health care and he was the deciding vote

To the OP,

Move to Europe, we just give all our money and services away, so fuck it, you may aswell join the gravy-train.

At least you'd probably work unlike most of the idiots we have on welfare, no lifetime cap? No need for them to ever get a job.

Harrekin said:

To the OP,

Move to Europe, we just give all our money and services away, so fuck it, you may aswell join the gravy-train.

At least you'd probably work unlike most of the idiots we have on welfare, no lifetime cap? No need for them to ever get a job.

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You're blaming the wrong group of people. Sociology should make answers like this obsolete.

GOD HERE said:

You're blaming the wrong group of people. Sociology should make answers like this obsolete.

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Oh yeah, it's the Global Jew-Piggy-Banker Conspiracy's fault. They want to make everyone welfare dependent so they can start their NWO.

My bad.

After doing therapy for 20 years one thing I've learned that has been shown true over and over again for the vast majority of people. The more you do for people, the less they do for themselves.

Ginwilly, I appreciate your perspective. But the reality is that those on the public till get medicaid. From what I have read, the biggest problem with lack of coverage comes from the working poor. With no employer mandate and no living wage ordinances,the current system, which I am not saying you defend, creates an incentive of sorts not to work. This is one thing Obamacare tried to address with expansion of medicaid and other provisions.

To Harrekin, I have worked since I was 14. I have a MBA from a top 25 university and have never received shit from the government. when I was working full time during my undergrad, making 12k/yr in Southern California, I did not qualify for "guaranteed student loans" because I earned too much after Reagan got done changing the rules. He also made food servers like me start claiming our tips, which caused the restaurants to be able to lower the minimum wage paid to us (Ca overuled that but few states were the same). I am not rich but comfortable, struggling to save to put my kids through college. I have seen what has happened to the middle and lower middle classes in the US over the past decades and it is sick. I should pay more taxes and the rich should much more. I believe in a better form of capitalism where companies try to maximize stakeholder wealth rather than just shareholder wealth so that we all enjoy the spoils of our labor. But until that paradigm shift happens, gov is the only cure or our separation of wealth will grow larger and larger. I have spent a good amount of time in Central America where that is the case and that is not what I want for my country. I don't sport capable people not working. But the reality is that we need a working class that can survive and live well. That is slowly disappearing here. Healthcare is just one manifestation of it. I am not saying your system is perfect. I am saying that no one should have to go without visiting a doc when they need to. No one should have to decide between medicine or food. What I see is hard working people getting fucked. And what I hear is a neverending complaint about the small fraction of people who abuse the system, which in my opinion is nothing more than a red herring to make people lose their humanity.

Yes Dad, that's one of our issues here. If you are uneducated and weren't fortunate to land a job with the big3, but still want to care for yourself without help, you are punished and punished hard. You are rewarded here for not working. The people who fall just above poverty and just below median wages would be better off financially not working (for most with kids). There is something wrong with that.

Also, if you go to our welfare departments looking for work you are instructed on how to work the system instead.

ginwilly said:

After doing therapy for 20 years one thing I've learned that has been shown true over and over again for the vast majority of people. The more you do for people, the less they do for themselves.

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IN the case of elderly who had nothing before medicare the less they did was breathing

GrowinDad said:

Ginwilly, I appreciate your perspective. But the reality is that those on the public till get medicaid. From what I have read, the biggest problem with lack of coverage comes from the working poor. With no employer mandate and no living wage ordinances,the current system, which I am not saying you defend, creates an incentive of sorts not to work. This is one thing Obamacare tried to address with expansion of medicaid and other provisions. To Harrekin, I have worked since I was 14. I have a MBA from a top 25 university and have never received shit from the government. when I was working full time during my undergrad, making 12k/yr in Southern California, I did not qualify for "guaranteed student loans" because I earned too much after Reagan got done changing the rules. He also made food servers like me start claiming our tips, which caused the restaurants to be able to lower the minimum wage paid to us (Ca overuled that but few states were the same). I am not rich but comfortable, struggling to save to put my kids through college. I have seen what has happened to the middle and lower middle classes in the US over the past decades and it is sick. I should pay more taxes and the rich should much more. I believe in a better form of capitalism where companies try to maximize stakeholder wealth rather than just shareholder wealth so that we all enjoy the spoils of our labor. But until that paradigm shift happens, gov is the only cure or our separation of wealth will grow larger and larger. I have spent a good amount of time in Central America where that is the case and that is not what I want for my country. I don't sport capable people not working. But the reality is that we need a working class that can survive and live well. That is slowly disappearing here. Healthcare is just one manifestation of it. I am not saying your system is perfect. I am saying that no one should have to go without visiting a doc when they need to. No one should have to decide between medicine or food. What I see is hard working people getting fucked. And what I hear is a neverending complaint about the small fraction of people who abuse the system, which in my opinion is nothing more than a red herring to make people lose their humanity.

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Are you claiming Californians don't pay income tax on tips, or am I misunderstanding you?

Not at all. All servers must pay income tax on tips today. that did not used to be the case. Once they were considered taxable income, the restaurant owners said "well those tips can count toward the minimum wage". As a result, tipped employees started getting less than the minimum wage (tips excluded). For example, I waited tables in a sub minimum wage state when the min wage was 4.25. We got paid 2.125/hr. Bottom line was that basically your whole paycheck went to cover the taxes because the taxes for the tips all came out of that 2.125/hr.

And of course no health insurance for restaurant workers. Now that there will be a mandate to provide coverage to full time employees, they are cutting hours to avoid it. I feel for the owners because it is a tough business to make money on and consumers are very price sensitive. That's why it is wrong to have the basis for healthcare tied to employment as it is today.

Harrekin said:

Oh yeah, it's the Global Jew-Piggy-Banker Conspiracy's fault. They want to make everyone welfare dependent so they can start their NWO.

My bad.

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Dude what are you on? Do you even know what sociology is? If you knew anything about it you wouldn't have this idiotic view that the few on welfare who don't work are bringing down the system. Common sense alone will tell you that. It's a combination of mismanagement of money, a lack of regulation, racism, "free market" economics, stagnant wages, corruption, and public stupidity.

Has nothing to do with jews...

There was a time when some waitresses actually worked solely for tips, and often had to pay management a percentage. Sort of like strippers do now.

ChesusRice said:

IN the case of elderly who had nothing before medicare the less they did was breathing

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For the most part the elderly are my best patients. As a group they work harder, have a higher pain threshold and bitch less.

ginwilly said:

For the most part the elderly are my best patients. As a group they work harder, have a higher pain threshold and bitch less.

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And what were the aggregate life spans before medicare?

ChesusRice said:

And what were the aggregate life spans before medicare?

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Medicine wasn't as advanced before then, so it's not a fair comparison.

ChesusRice said:

And what were the aggregate life spans before medicare?

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If you beat Syphilis, Polio, TB, pneumonia, small pox and many other diseases we now take a shot for it was better than you'd think. Our modern diets are killing us early today.

That's why people are healthier in many third world countries. Obesity, lack of exercise and other problems caused by our luxurious life styles are the leading cause of health problems.

Red1966 said:

That's why people are healthier in many third world countries. Obesity, lack of exercise and other problems caused by our luxurious life styles are the leading cause of health problems.

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Really name one third world country that doesnt have universal health care that that applies to

and i will roundly call you out

I do not know, nor care, what who has. Tell us all the ones that do. When you get done with that, you can wash my car.