Organic soil grow. Thorough details and pics. Please help

Medium:
3gal pots
2parts Biobizz all mix
2parts worm castings
1part perlite (more perlite next time)
.5 teas trichoderma/myco
1teas of EPSOMA GARDEN LIME (was this a mistake? couldn't get regular lime, so i read this should be ok so i bought some pelletized and crushed it up. But then I got a box of granular dolomite lime, and it is white, as opposed to the epsoma, which is brown/red clay looking)

water:
Tap water filtered through 10 stage filter, left in milk jug for 3 days with ph around 7.1
-havn't tested water, but anecdotes suggest it is of good quality, however the buildings pipes may not be. I notice some red residue around the shower faucet, is that hard water?
I lift the pots to determine when they should be watered. usually they seem light after 3 days.

Plants:
2 weeks into flower
LST bent once
about 80f at canopy
%30 humidity

Feed:
They have been watered with Liquid Karma (rec dosage) and molasses (1 tab per gal) since the begining.
fed once before goin into 12/12
on the water after that feeding, i gave it 1gal water w/1 tab mol/1.5teas HYGROZYME
-after this watering i feel as though i noticed more leaves going yellow
since then i gave it water, then some nutes (biobizz grow + bloom)at lowest strength
yesterday it was watered with 1gal water + 1teas superthrive/ maxicrop seaweed +iron/ liquid karma

Bugs/pest:
NO VISIBLE pests. I have not looked with a magnifying glass, but I have looked under many leafs and I have not seen anything move.
However, I have a lot of little like thin white hairs on leaves often, and sometimes a little ball that loots like a large particle of dust or something. Again, i've stared at these, but have not seen them move. There is a pic of the ball of dust like thing. I suspect this to be pet dander?

Problem:
Yellowing of some large fan leaves, and a few smaller leaves
Some brown spots, though they have recently havn't increased in #s
Light green new growth
Some stems are very purple

*There are 2 plants, one bubba kush and the other sharksbreath. The SB has had pebbled leaves since day 1, but the BK seemed to be doing well until Hygrozyme

Hypothesis:
From my research I have found evidence that suggests it is a micronutrient deficiency? I thought it could be Mg, then iron?
I think it is possible that my water's Ph is too low after all organic nutes being added?



I think the pictures loaded with the most recent first

Thank you so much for any and all input!

Peace.

Phosphorus. That splotchy crispyness is P deficiency. Worm Castings contain Mg but they don't have significant amounts of Fe. Blood Meal provides alot of Fe. Other pics seem to show N deficiency as well. Guanos are usually high in N & P.

To see if the Lime was a mistake, you'd have to check the soil Ph. The type of lime you used shouldn't be a problem, though.

GFOYLE said:

Medium:
3gal pots, 2parts Biobizz all mix, 2parts worm castings, 1part perlite (more perlite next time), .5 teas trichoderma/myco
1teas of EPSOMA GARDEN LIME (was this a mistake? couldn't get regular lime, so i read this should be ok so i bought some pelletized and crushed it up. But then I got a box of granular dolomite lime, and it is white, as opposed to the epsoma, which is brown/red clay looking)

Click to expand...

That all sounds good. Espoma is a slow release for organic/natural gardeners. I hear ya on more perlite. Next round is going to be half perlite for me.

GFOYLE said:

water:
Tap water filtered through 10 stage filter, left in milk jug for 3 days with ph around 7.1
-havn't tested water, but anecdotes suggest it is of good quality, however the buildings pipes may not be. I notice some red residue around the shower faucet, is that hard water?

Click to expand...

Your sir have Iron in your water source. That is bad. Hard water technically means something else:

"Hard water is water that has high mineral content (in contrast with soft water). Hard water minerals primarily consist of calcium (Ca2+), and magnesium (Mg2+) metal cations, and sometimes other dissolved compounds such as bicarbonates and sulphates. "

Click to expand...

GFOYLE said:

I lift the pots to determine when they should be watered. usually they seem light after 3 days.

Click to expand...

That is normal, this problem is not your watering frequency, but probably nutritional or pH.

GFOYLE said:

Plants: 2 weeks into flower, LST bent once, about 80f at canopy, %30 humidity

Click to expand...

IMO 30% is too low, even for flowering. This ultra low humidity is causing your plants to over transpire. This may be causing the nutritional issues as the plants are drinking more than they want to.

GFOYLE said:

Feed:
They have been watered with Liquid Karma (rec dosage) and molasses (1 tab per gal) since the begining.
fed once before goin into 12/12
on the water after that feeding, i gave it 1gal water w/1 tab mol/1.5teas HYGROZYME
-after this watering i feel as though i noticed more leaves going yellow
since then i gave it water, then some nutes (biobizz grow + bloom)at lowest strength
yesterday it was watered with 1gal water + 1teas superthrive/ maxicrop seaweed +iron/ liquid karma

Click to expand...

Leaves going yellow at the top or bottom? Top? That hygrozyme is not needed in strong amounts. Maybe too much of that but who even knows what is in it... lol.

GFOYLE said:

Bugs/pest:
NO VISIBLE pests. I have not looked with a magnifying glass, but I have looked under many leafs and I have not seen anything move.
However, I have a lot of little like thin white hairs on leaves often, and sometimes a little ball that loots like a large particle of dust or something. Again, i've stared at these, but have not seen them move. There is a pic of the ball of dust like thing. I suspect this to be pet dander?

Click to expand...

Okay, simple test, get some potting mix on the underside of your leaves, it the dirt really sticks then there is pests.

GFOYLE said:

Problem:
Yellowing of some large fan leaves, and a few smaller leaves
Some brown spots, though they have recently havn't increased in #s
Light green new growth
Some stems are very purple

Click to expand...

Yellowing where? Sounds like and looks like P or Ca deficiency.

GFOYLE said:

*There are 2 plants, one bubba kush and the other sharksbreath. The SB has had pebbled leaves since day 1, but the BK seemed to be doing well until Hygrozyme

Click to expand...

Making me think you already know you used too much...

GFOYLE said:

Hypothesis:
From my research I have found evidence that suggests it is a micronutrient deficiency? I thought it could be Mg, then iron?
I think it is possible that my water's Ph is too low after all organic nutes being added?

Click to expand...

Check your pH, HYGROzyme in particular drops the pH wicked low, like low 4s. I only use 1-5 mL per gallon depending, and more in flower than veg. If your pH if off you will see all sorts of deficiencies and the like, and they won't get better til you flush to adjust the pH back to 6.3ish.

THank you all for the input! I really appreciate it.
@MF- Thank you! as the noob I am, I was for some reason in fear of a high ph, as I read that as organic nutes are used/dissolved, ammonia is left? and therefor raises the ph? so, 2 waters ago, i used my hanna combo meter to check, but I stopped once I saw it dropped below 6.8.

@MR- THank you! I am begining to think it could be lockout from too low of PH, as I added 1.5teas of hygrozyme per gall. This was another noob move, I got ambitious after seeing the stuff completely turn around a sickly dying plan last grow, but that was later in the cycle, and with higher soil ph I think.
also, leaves are going yellow on bottom, but new growth is light green

I am going to add a humidifier to the room air is sourced, and hope it raises a bit.
I havn't heard of seeing if soil sticks to the leaves to determine pests. I did have a funny stoner moment the other day that I did this by accident. I had some soil on my finger, and then started turning leaves upside down and couldn't believe how many black spots were there (MMITES! haha), then i realized it was the dirt from my finger...

What can I do to test if there is/too much iron in my water?

My plan is to water with some plain unchlorinated water, should be around 7ph, so i will not adjust it.
I really would like to eliminate having to adjust my ph, and this all has been a great lesson. Am I correct in my understanding that using JUST water is important so as to raise the ph a bit when using organic nutes?

There are home water test kits that test for iron. Most soil grows are supposed to be a little on the acidic side and you can create a mix that naturally stays at the correct Ph.

-yesterday a humidifier was introduced and the RH of the surrounding room is %56

-today the BK looks pale over all, but the SB look a little better, slightly more green on new growth, i notice the growth in the middle of the plant is very nice and green.

-I flushed today with 1 gal of unchlorinated tap water that ended up being 7.05ph and 170ppm (@.5 conversion)
-the ph of the runoff was 7.1 for the BK and 7.06 for the SB

This is not what I expected. After MR's comment about hygrozyme lowering ph, I was thinking I had some lockout due to low ph. Considering there was a slight increase in ph in the run off, is there enough variation to suggest it might be too high?

Or, is it possible that they just weren't fed enough?

Interesting. Testing run-off isn't really an accurate reading of your soil. A preferred method is to take a soil sample (not off of the top, from the middle) add just enough distilled water, then test that liquid for media pH. But yeah, if your soil pH is over 7, thats too high.

It seems your soil pH may be testing the same as your water source pH. This makes me think you are just running water through the media and testing it. I like to dig my hand to the middle and scoop a little media up for testing. It may damage a little roots growth, but the knowledge is valuable.

Pale overall may be N deficiency, but probably is an affect of lock out, pH related. More pics ?

Another thing to think about is your pH over time. Some water sources/nute combos seem to hold pH, and other's seem to only affect pH for a little while. Try a test with your fertigation solution. Put some aside and check the pH over a couple days to see how long it takes to return to 7.1 (source) pH.

Matt's correct about the Ph. When you flush the soil, much of Ph-altering substances are rinsed away and the ratio of water to soil is high, giving you more of a Ph reading on the water you're using than the soil. Not that flushing was a bad idea, as I said doing so can wash away stuff that's screwing up the Ph. You just can't accurately test the soil's Ph for a couple days afterward. We'll test the Ph of new water and new nutrient solutions with a cheap liquid Ph test kit and we test the soil with a probe-type tester. Once in awhile I'll use the capsule-type soil test kit to verify that the probe is still reading correctly but those are the only Ph tests we perform regularly. Because runoff is an unknown ratio of the liquid and soil Ph's, it can read anywhere between those two Ph values.

Thank you again for your help you two. I just put in the $8 ph/light/water probe to see what it reads. I will include some more pictures, but it has been one day since the flush, and I think they look a little worse. Is it possible they are just underfed? Please offer any advice you have. It is very important for me to grow the best cannabis I can organically.

the dead spots from before won't go away, and i dont see new spots. That is good.

yes, they need N. I would hit them with a foliar feed of veg fert/Humic acid/wetting agent to help get some green back, right when the lights go off. The good news is that N is mobile and they can green back up if you make it available to them

Go with Matt and give her a jolt of N. Certain Ph problems look just like N def and since testing the Ph can't make anything worse, I always reccomend that before nutes when the plant looks like yours. That said, the problem is far enough along to start taking stronger measures. High N Guanos, Fish Emulsion and Blood Meal are some of the best organic sources of N.

Getting worse after the flush is also a classic sign of underfeeding.

Mother's Finest said:

Getting worse after the flush is also a classic sign of underfeeding.

Click to expand...

to continue this thought. Flushing was in this case, to correct an imbalance, not necessarily too much food. so after the flush this lack of N makes sense. I usually flush with a very mild fert solution, not plain water, and make sure to foliar a little while the soil is getting back on track.

I can't thank you both enough. However, this is dismal news due to the fact that of all the things I bought, I do not have anything that is primarily N. I only have the grow formula from Biobizz. this is what is in it:

Bio Bizz Bio-Grow (1.8-0.1-6.6) liquid fertilizer is ideal for promoting lush growth during the vegetative cycle, particularly in soil gardens. This product is not recommended for a recirculating hydroponic system. Bio-Grow can also be used as a plant tonic during the flowering stage.The natural sugars in Bio-Grow benefit bacteria in the soil while the additional micronutrients and vitamins boost overall plant health. Certified organic by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI). Application rate is 20 to 40 mL per 10 liters of water during the vegetative phase.
Get the BIOBIZZ Feeding schedule Here.

Sweeten the Harvest with Bio-Grow
Bio-Grow Its based on 100% organic Dutch sugar beet extract, so it is packed with sugars to build Brix readings in plants and rejuvenate the life of your soil or activated compost. Translated from the original Dutch Bio-Groei (bee-yo ghru-ee), it has been known to work wonders in topsoil and increase the flavor of heirloom tomatoes and other garden-variety vegetables. According to the manufacturer: “Bio-Grow smells very sweet owing to its content of natural sugars which also provide an ideal interrelationship with the bacteria in the soil mixture."

Although we do not recommend BioBizz products for a recirculating hydroponic system some customers find sucess using it in hydroponics. If you want to use BioBizz products with your hydroponics system it is best with a drain to waste system.

Bio-Grow GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Total Nitrogen (N)…………………………...2%
1 % Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1 % Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)………………....0.1%
Soluble Potash (K2O)………………………...7%
Derived from: molasses

Could this maybe be a culprit? Is that stuff just fancy molasses?
Also, IF the little ph meter I stuck in the soil is remotely accurate, it is sitting right at 7.

Yes, it is fancy molasses, and the base of multiple organic formulas coming out of holland. It's not bad, but that ratio sucks for veg IMO.

Can you get a little fert from the hardware store, or anything like that possible? If you can find a little fish based product you may be able to get like a 6-0-0 food for cheap. If it is powder, just bubble it up and then spray it on.

Even your biobizz 2-.1-7 has some N, and you can foliar that, make sure to use a little wetting agent. if you have none a drop of bronners soap will work, not dish soap. if you can use something hippy it would be better. sorry for short answer, will try to get back on here in a few. peace.

Thanks again! Alright, I can buy whatever is necessary tomorrow. Could I have your input on what is best?
This is what I have:
Bio bizz grow + bloom
Liquid Karma
superthrive
molasses
hygrozyme
indonesian bat guano 0-13-0

What would be best to buy? I am thinking mexican bat guano 10-2-0?

Should I foliar feed and/or add to nute water once i get the high N guano? If either, how much?

And, I read it is good to give extra P to soil like 2nd and 6th? week of flowering? Any input on that, fellas?

GFOYLE said:

Thanks again! Alright, I can buy whatever is necessary tomorrow. Could I have your input on what is best?
This is what I have:
Bio bizz grow + bloom
Liquid Karma
superthrive
molasses
hygrozyme
indonesian bat guano 0-13-0

What would be best to buy? I am thinking mexican bat guano 10-2-0?

Should I foliar feed and/or add to nute water once i get the high N guano? If either, how much?

And, I read it is good to give extra P to soil like 2nd and 6th? week of flowering? Any input on that, fellas?

Click to expand...

Yea man, looks good except for a high N source. Mexi bat guano will do, follow the directions and start at half strength just to be safe. Foliar rightaway asap, and fertigate with just a tiny extra N, not too much as N is easy to burn with. Don't water unless you they are ready to drink thats for sure.

extra p is good in 2-6 of flower is correct, but not the the levels that most think. these 0-30-20 formulas are crap. soft rock phosphate is my favorite p source, but is slow release. you can increase the availability of these powder p sources by bubbling them in a tea. gotta go for real, back later, peace

Lights are on and they are really pale! man they look terrible.



I felt so good when she looked like this