Organic vs. Synthetic (Cleaner High)

Pattahabi said:

I have to agree with this. The price of synthetic hydro crap is dropping like a rock. You can't hardly give it away here.

P-

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Care to post your organic plants ???? you appear to be all talk

chuck estevez said:

My favorite video, IT's The same damn banana,lol

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Yea but how many people did it take for them to film that result? 9 out of 10 could have tasted the difference and they show you the one that didn't.

Its a comedy show. Its all perception.

I raise chickens. They run free and eat bugs. They taste better so do the eggs. We raise grass fed cattle. You can't buy beef like that. We raise a garden with manure, compost, and castings.

It all taste better. Some call it placebo. Ill say its more the fact the closer to nature you live, the better you feel.

whitebb2727 said:

Yea but how many people did it take for them to film that result? 9 out of 10 could have tasted the difference and they show you the one that didn't.

Its a comedy show. Its all perception.

I raise chickens. They run free and eat bugs. They taste better so do the eggs. We raise grass fed cattle. You can't buy beef like that. We raise a garden with manure, compost, and castings.

It all taste better. Some call it placebo. Ill say its more the fact the closer to nature you live, the better you feel.

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A 2012 meta-analysis of data from 240 studies concluded that organic fruits and vegetables were, on average, no more nutritious than their cheaper conventional counterparts; nor were they less likely to be contaminated by pathogenic bacteria like E. coli or salmonella – a finding that surprised even the researchers. “When we began this project,” said Dena Bravata, one of the researchers, “we thought that there would likely be some findings that would support the superiority of organics over conventional
Many people purchase organic foods in order to avoid exposure to harmful levels of pesticides. But that is a poor rationale. While non-organic fruits and vegetables had more pesticide residue, the levels in more than 99% of cases did not cross the conservative safety thresholds set by regulators.

Moreover, the vast majority of the pesticidal substances found on produce occur “naturally” in people’s diets, through organic and conventional foods. The biochemist Bruce Ames and his colleagues have found that “99.99% (by weight) of the pesticides in the American diet are chemicals that plants produce to defend themselves. Only 52 natural pesticides have been tested in high-dose animal cancer tests, and about half (27) are rodent carcinogens; these 27 are shown to be present in many common foods.”

The bottom line is that natural chemicals are just as likely as synthetic versions to test positive in animal cancer studies, and “at the low doses of most human exposures, the comparative hazards of synthetic pesticide residues are insignificant.” In other words, consumers who buy expensive organic foods in order to avoid pesticide exposure are focusing their attention on 0.01% of the pesticides that they consume.

Ironically, in both Europe and North America, the designation “organic” is itself a synthetic bureaucratic construct – and it makes little sense. It prohibits the use of synthetic chemical pesticides, with some pragmatic exceptions. For example, the EU’s policy notes that “foreseen flexibility rules” can compensate for “local climatic, cultural, or structural differences.” When suitable alternatives are lacking, some (strictly enumerated) synthetic chemicals are allowed.

Similarly, in the US, there is a lengthy list of specific exceptions to the prohibitions. But most “natural” pesticides – as well as pathogen-laden animal excreta, for use as fertilizer – are permitted.

Another rationale for buying organic is that it is supposedly better for the natural environment. But the low yields of organic agriculture in real-world settings – typically 20-50% below yields from conventional agriculture – impose various stresses on farmland and increase water consumption substantially. According to a recent British meta-analysis, ammonia emissions, nitrogen leaching, and nitrous-oxide emissions per unit of output were higher in organic systems than in conventional agriculture, as were land use and the potential for eutrophication – adverse ecosystem responses to the addition of fertilizers and wastes – and acidification.

An anomaly of how “organic” is defined is that the designation does not actually focus on the food’s quality, composition, or safety. Rather, it comprises a set of acceptable practices and procedures that a farmer intends to use. For example, chemical pesticide or pollen from genetically engineered plants wafting from an adjacent field onto an organic crop does not affect the harvest’s status. EU rules are clear that food may be labeled as organic as long as “the ingredients containing [genetically modified organisms] entered the products unintentionally” and amount to less than 0.9% of their content.

Finally, many who are seduced by the romance of organic farming ignore its human consequences. American farmer Blake Hurst offers this reminder: “Weeds continue to grow, even in polycultures with holistic farming methods, and, without pesticides, hand weeding is the only way to protect a crop.” The backbreaking drudgery of hand weeding often falls to women and children.

Of course, organic products should be available for people who feel that they must have and can afford them. But the simple truth is that buying non-organic is far more cost-effective, more humane, and more environmentally responsible.


Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/henry-i--miller-exposes-the-disappointing-truth-about-organic-agriculture#0xkVf8fksJTS7ifC.99

The idea of organically grown produce to me (and the majority of other people) is an easy one—what’s marketed to us is essentially that they’re seeds/plants grown without the use of chemicals, pesticides and growth promoters.

But what if I were to tell you the majority of “organically” grown produce is not absent of any of these very things that conventional farmers use? Organic farmers use pesticides and ‘growth promoters’ and are putting more emphasis on their bottom line than they’re telling you. The truth is there’s a ton of money in selling organic produce and the powers that be know this. You’d think in theory without all the additional chemicals and steps of conventional farming the price would be cheaper to grow a less processed produce, no? But the reality is in most cases all of the conventional farming techniques are used on organic produce.

Before we get into the specifics below, I definitely want to point out, this is in no way a smear piece about why you should stop eating organically grown produce.
These are a few words put together to hopefully push for some change in the direction organically grown produce is headed.

The idea of growing food in absence of man-made chemicals or any chemicals for that matter is essential for our public health, I do fully believe that. Although I feel Americans—or any person for that matter—want to do what’s right and will go above and beyond to do the right thing, we also can get pretty lazy and allow large corporations and government agencies to dictate and direct what we want to see.

You made the choice to eat only organic and that’s great, but you must go a few steps further to protect this decision.
So what about the chemicals? The reality is, the majority of organically grown produce—especially the stuff you see in most grocery store chains—is most likely grown with pesticides. The fact is, most state laws allow organic farmers to spray a whole gamut of chemical sprays, powders and pellets on their organic crops. That is, if they are “organic” or natural chemical sprays, powders and pellets (1, 2).

So what the hell does organic mean then these days? It means that organically produced fruits and vegetables are grown in an environment absent of synthetic chemicals, yes, but the notion that they’re grown without chemicals at all is false (1,2).

Pesticides can be used in the growing of “organic” vegetables and fruits, and often are. They just must be derived from natural sources, not synthetically manufactured. (1,3)

So my question to you is, in all the knowledge in your head, is this any better? It isn’t to me, and some major U.S. organizations would agree. Just because it’s a “natural” pesticide, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better or even good for you at all.

The EPA and USDA have conducted many studies over the last few decades showing synthetically used pesticides, or any chemical for that matter, are seriously carcinogenic—a little more than 50 percent of them. A carcinogen leads to a high susceptibility for cancer creation within the human body. So again, it seems it’s fairly logical to not use any of these chemicals (“natural” or not) anywhere near our foods. (4)

But what about these organic pesticides?
Not until very recently has anyone tested or cared to test these natural organic pesticides, mainly for the thought that they are “natural” so why test them, how harmful can they be? Guess what happened when they tested these natural pesticides—the very pesticides they’re using on our organic produce? About half of them are carcinogenic as well. Yikes. (4)

So I guess the question is, are natural pesticides less harmful and/or toxic than synthetically derived ones? That’s a super difficult question to answer considering not much testing has been done and for good reason. The organic market is a fairly new one and with everyone jumping on the wagon and bending the rules of the USDA, FDA and EPA, there are so many variables.

Here’s a very common practice in growing lettuce: In conventional farming, during the full growth cycle of this plant, a very small amount of a very well-tested pesticide (literally tested over 50 years) will be used once, maybe twice to assure a healthy crop. But for an organic farmer, they might use five to 10 times more of a natural pesticide like rotenone-pyrethrin or Spinosad. Tests done by the USDA have shown pesticides are 10 times more prevalent on organic lettuce than on conventionally grown produce in some cases. (5, 6, 7,

There’s also the question of farming and our environment. We’ve seen the repercussions of our actions and decisions as humans the last few hundred years and we’ve really started to ask questions about what kind of impact our farming and the feeding of our species is doing to our world’s environment. You’d think less chemicals, natural or not, is better for the environment. But if these organic farmers are spraying considerably more of these natural chemicals than conventional farmers, is that really any better? That natural pesticide mentioned above, rotenone-pyrethrin, is extremely toxic to aquatic life and fish. So which is better? (9)

As I stated earlier, this isn’t a grouping of words to discourage you from continuing on your quest to a cleaner lifestyle by utilizing organically grown produce. It’s for the eye-opening reality of what’s currently happening and, in return, that you’ll be empowered to demand better.

I don’t blame the farmer, I don’t blame the associations that regulate organic foods and I certainly don’t blame our government.
The reality is we’re in a capitalist society—-in some ways it’s what makes this country so great—but it also comes with dire reactions if we don’t remain aware. Economics and money can sometimes pull the wool so quickly over our eyes, you’d think we were at a sheep farm. Although I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it seems money and economics will always come first. I don’t doubt that if a farmer could make the same amount of money from an apple grown without anything in true organic style, they’d do so.

On the flip-side if they know they can use a certain natural chemical to assure a strong, non-pest effected crop, and still state that it’s “organically grown,” they’re going to continue doing that as well.

“Okay, that kale I just had for lunch doesn’t feel so good after all, so what do I do?”
The answer is a very easy one, it takes us opening our mouth and asking questions. We can ask our grocer about the organic produce we’re buying—who’s the grower and where did it come from? I can almost guarantee any organic produce item we buy that’s perfectly packaged in a plastic container or plastic bag is most likely from a huge producer, one that also produces conventionally grown produce (they’re all in on the fun, there’s money in those organic hills). Again, I’m not an economist or a horticulturalist, but I’d guess they’d be using organic pesticides, it just makes smart business sense.

Besides being that guy asking questions at our grocery store, an even better solution is buying local. The local farm stand and farmers’ market movement is huge these days. Besides keeping our hard earned money local and helping our fellow farmers, we’re also most likely greatly helping your health. We get to talk directly to the farmer and can ask them about what, if anything, they spray or add to their produce.

More times than most, the local organic farmers are organically farming the way you’d think organic farming should be, as in the absence of chemicals of any kind.

We need to take things into our own hands, literally.
We can grow something organic with our own dirt and two hands. Even if it’s in a small pot on our window sill, we can all farm on some level. We can learn what it takes (not much) to create our own food virtually free. Just a little hard work and time is all we need.

Want to go even further? Find a plot of land in your neighborhood that isn’t being used and ask the owner or the township/city if you can use it for a community garden—the possibilities are really endless.

Growing one’s food is an amazing way to connect ourselves to the very sustenance that keeps us alive. I can almost guarantee this connection will inspire you to speak out louder on the current state of organic farming and crops.

so people are saying that synthetic weed doesn't have more sweet flavor then organic weed?

Darth Vapour said:

A 2012 meta-analysis of data from 240 studies concluded that organic fruits and vegetables were, on average, no more nutritious than their cheaper conventional counterparts; nor were they less likely to be contaminated by pathogenic bacteria like E. coli or salmonella – a finding that surprised even the researchers. “When we began this project,” said Dena Bravata, one of the researchers, “we thought that there would likely be some findings that would support the superiority of organics over conventional
Many people purchase organic foods in order to avoid exposure to harmful levels of pesticides. But that is a poor rationale. While non-organic fruits and vegetables had more pesticide residue, the levels in more than 99% of cases did not cross the conservative safety thresholds set by regulators.

Moreover, the vast majority of the pesticidal substances found on produce occur “naturally” in people’s diets, through organic and conventional foods. The biochemist Bruce Ames and his colleagues have found that “99.99% (by weight) of the pesticides in the American diet are chemicals that plants produce to defend themselves. Only 52 natural pesticides have been tested in high-dose animal cancer tests, and about half (27) are rodent carcinogens; these 27 are shown to be present in many common foods.”

The bottom line is that natural chemicals are just as likely as synthetic versions to test positive in animal cancer studies, and “at the low doses of most human exposures, the comparative hazards of synthetic pesticide residues are insignificant.” In other words, consumers who buy expensive organic foods in order to avoid pesticide exposure are focusing their attention on 0.01% of the pesticides that they consume.

Ironically, in both Europe and North America, the designation “organic” is itself a synthetic bureaucratic construct – and it makes little sense. It prohibits the use of synthetic chemical pesticides, with some pragmatic exceptions. For example, the EU’s policy notes that “foreseen flexibility rules” can compensate for “local climatic, cultural, or structural differences.” When suitable alternatives are lacking, some (strictly enumerated) synthetic chemicals are allowed.

Similarly, in the US, there is a lengthy list of specific exceptions to the prohibitions. But most “natural” pesticides – as well as pathogen-laden animal excreta, for use as fertilizer – are permitted.

Another rationale for buying organic is that it is supposedly better for the natural environment. But the low yields of organic agriculture in real-world settings – typically 20-50% below yields from conventional agriculture – impose various stresses on farmland and increase water consumption substantially. According to a recent British meta-analysis, ammonia emissions, nitrogen leaching, and nitrous-oxide emissions per unit of output were higher in organic systems than in conventional agriculture, as were land use and the potential for eutrophication – adverse ecosystem responses to the addition of fertilizers and wastes – and acidification.

An anomaly of how “organic” is defined is that the designation does not actually focus on the food’s quality, composition, or safety. Rather, it comprises a set of acceptable practices and procedures that a farmer intends to use. For example, chemical pesticide or pollen from genetically engineered plants wafting from an adjacent field onto an organic crop does not affect the harvest’s status. EU rules are clear that food may be labeled as organic as long as “the ingredients containing [genetically modified organisms] entered the products unintentionally” and amount to less than 0.9% of their content.

Finally, many who are seduced by the romance of organic farming ignore its human consequences. American farmer Blake Hurst offers this reminder: “Weeds continue to grow, even in polycultures with holistic farming methods, and, without pesticides, hand weeding is the only way to protect a crop.” The backbreaking drudgery of hand weeding often falls to women and children.

Of course, organic products should be available for people who feel that they must have and can afford them. But the simple truth is that buying non-organic is far more cost-effective, more humane, and more environmentally responsible.


Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/henry-i--miller-exposes-the-disappointing-truth-about-organic-agriculture#0xkVf8fksJTS7ifC.99

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I don't really care about those studies. When you connect to nature and develope a symbiotic relationship your life is better for it.

Now on to the studies. Even though the government sets a acceptable level of pesticides and other toxins that does not mean its safe. There are things that the body can purge quickly. Even worse are most of the man made synthetic chems. It is not the one dose that hurts you. Its the fact those chems stay in the body and build up over time. That is the danger.

Now the test that show no nutritional difference in organic and none organic produce. There are studies that show if you go back 70-100 years that a lot of foods had higher nutritional value. It would stand to reason that it would take many years of organic farming to reverse that.

I like my connection to nature. I hunt, fish, raise a garden and animals. My kids are involved in all aspects. It is raw, it is visceral. It is the way of life.

whitebb2727 said:

I don't really care about those studies. When you connect to nature and develope a symbiotic relationship your life is better for it.

Now on to the studies. Even though the government sets a acceptable level of pesticides and other toxins that does not mean its safe. There are things that the body can purge quickly. Even worse are most of the man made synthetic chems. It is not the one dose that hurts you. Its the fact those chems stay in the body and build up over time. That is the danger.

Now the test that show no nutritional difference in organic and none organic produce. There are studies that show if you go back 70-100 years that a lot of foods had higher nutritional value. It would stand to reason that it would take many years of organic farming to reverse that.

I like my connection to nature. I hunt, fish, raise a garden and animals. My kids are involved in all aspects. It is raw, it is visceral. It is the way of life.

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You sound like a creationist you don't even care about the studies lol... do you pray to a imaginary god ?? has he answered your prayers ??? any conversations one on one >>???
natural pesticides are chemicals also i guess that is exempt in your mind for staying longer in the body ?? Dam dude really

Darth Vapour said:

You sound like a creationist you don't even care about the studies lol... do you pray to a imaginary god ?? has he answered your prayers ??? any conversations one on one >>???
natural pesticides are chemicals also i guess that is exempt in your mind for staying longer in the body ?? Dam dude really

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That's not exactly what I meant. Why be disrespectful.

With or without studies we make up our minds as to what is right. We are not easily swayed. If the studies show that nutritional value is the same why would I care about them. It then just becomes personal preference and the rest is moot.

Go ahead, have a disagreement and resort to belittling people. That shows your weakness not mine.

If not in support of organics, then why be here.

I don't use pesticides, period. Natural or not. When done properly things take care of themselves. The proper plants in your garden will deter pest.

foreverflyhi said:

Ok so first off, let's say The Ops opinion is biased, (which is not, we see this organic food quality)
At this point it's not about cleaner high, it's about sustainability, synthetics is not sustainable. If you cant connect the dots between agriculture pollution and indoor synthetic chemicals, then you yourself are no different then these Monsanto fucks destroying the world.
Get real you hydro synthetic freaks, your herb is trash and worthless where I'm from, no value.
These threads never go anywhere, so I simply speak the harsh truth, and truth is, your synthetic boo boo is nothing compared to my superior organic herb.

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More like you dont know how to grow bud

So you have to let microbes do tue work for you


Its completely possible to produce herb that smokes as smooth as any TLO from hydro... but it takes a lot more skill because the grower is in charge of dialing the plant in.

Sounds like you had a bad experience trying to grow on your own

whitebb2727 said:

I don't really care about those studies. When you connect to nature and develope a symbiotic relationship your life is better for it.

Now on to the studies. Even though the government sets a acceptable level of pesticides and other toxins that does not mean its safe. There are things that the body can purge quickly. Even worse are most of the man made synthetic chems. It is not the one dose that hurts you. Its the fact those chems stay in the body and build up over time. That is the danger.

Now the test that show no nutritional difference in organic and none organic produce. There are studies that show if you go back 70-100 years that a lot of foods had higher nutritional value. It would stand to reason that it would take many years of organic farming to reverse that.

I like my connection to nature. I hunt, fish, raise a garden and animals. My kids are involved in all aspects. It is raw, it is visceral. It is the way of life.

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Lmao

"I dont really care about those studies"

You and every other organic nut on these boards

Why pay any note to the scientific method... lets just ignore hard studies and get back to our own "personal" beliefs


Lol

hydroMD said:

More like you dont know how to grow bud

So you have to let microbes do tue work for you


Its completely possible to produce herb that smokes as smooth as any TLO from hydro... but it takes a lot more skill because the grower is in charge of dialing the plant in.

Sounds like you had a bad experience trying to grow on your own

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Lol ok?
Trust me kid, lots of scientific research behind soil, try thousands of years.

Btw those organic nuts you youre referring too, don't want to read your stupid biased one sided reports that are probably sponsored by groups who have investment in these types of studies outcome.
No shit people can't tell the difference between organics and synthetic grown food and herb, that's because most people like your self are desensitized from what's good and whats bad quality.

Don't understand me? Here let me dumb it down for you,
Your herb is like McDonald's,
Gross and cheap, probley on the dollar menu. My herb on the other hand, well hahaha, why bother? Your stuck in your McDonald's shit

wonder why you never see organic heads in the hydro section telling people hydro is for people who dont know how to grow. Hydro growers need directions and bottles and dont know how to read a plant. That's because were not stuck in a high school mentality having to prove our way is better. Why do you hydro / Chem guys feel so threatened that you have to cone to the organic section and spit your nonsensical used car salesman bullshit. We dont care who you are or what you do...

fact of the matter is. Hydro grown or using chems / synths anything is unhealthy and down the line can and will cause disease. Hydro grown ot chems synths is force feeding a plant. Not letting the plant grow to the full potential of its genetics, losing out on teprene oils, trichomes, even color.

veggies even have a world of difference in flavor with chems vs organic. I grow all my veggies. I grow all my pot. Fish comes from the ocean and lakes. Not the store. Chicken and turkey comes from co op farmers markets. Every meal is made from scratch. We make our own flour and everything too. So no GMO, chems, synths in my diet. I'll bet ill live a lot longer than these pro Chem growers

Iron is iron, right? Calcium is calcium? Fuck it, let's all stop eating food and just drink our nutes instead. This shit has been scientifically formulated by NASA and the Illuminati to increase our dick sizes by up to 4 000 000 % and has been proven in laboratories to improve our chances of winning the lottery while getting a handjob from Megan Fox by a factor of 2!!!

Seriously, why waste your time promoting synergy between organisms, promoting better overall health and increasing your lifespan when you could be pumping your medication with cancer-causing chemicals just so you can get an extra 1/8 oz. You organic growers have no clue.

some of the shit these guys come up with OMG, organic has a CLEANER high? WTF is a cleaner high? really? please stfu with that bullshit.

chuck estevez said:

some of the shit these guys come up with OMG, organic has a CLEANER high? WTF is a cleaner high? really? please stfu with that bullshit.

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it is a cleaner high due to more terpenes / cannabinoids present. Ie brix levels and full genetic potential.

you are going to talk shit and argue like you always do captain troll. So Good Day!

hyroot said:

it is a cleaner high due to more terpenes / cannabinoids present. Ie brix levels and full genetic potential.

you are going to talk shit and argue like you always do captain troll. So Good Day!

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No, you are going to ride your high horse like a typical organic douche. you and the L.E.D guys all make up shit. and that crap you just wrote is the biggest load of crap I have read yet.

chuck estevez said:

No, you are going to ride your high horse like a typical organic douche. you and the L.E.D guys all make up shit. and that crap you just wrote is the biggest load of crap I have read yet.

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captain troll. You are as sharp as a marble. You have zero grow experience. Zero grow knowledg. Try doing research on volatile terpenes and soluble terpenes. I doubt you know anything about chemistry . Its already a fact the chems cut corners limiting a plant to its potential. and I already
said good day!

now stop making yourself look incompetent

gonna need this to clean up all the BS being spilled around here

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chuck estevez said:

gonna need this to clean up all the BS being spilled around here

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Click to expand...

I said good day!