Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Kriegs said:
Your plants look EXACTLY like mine did at that stage. I turned out to have serious low pH.
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"crispy necrotic tips" is not a pH problem Kriegs, it is a response to too much salts. Please re-read the first post of this thread, I addressed the visible signs and I quote - "1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also."

Which I questioned in my latest PM response to you. I think you blasted them with too much salts based on their rate of growth. You must gear the amount of salts (nutes) you give plants based on their requirements, not some label, chart or a he said-she said.

Regarding pH tests, like I told Kriegs, pH is the first "problem" new growers blame, it's the easy way out. I'll repeat my (embellished) PM response here for the benefit of the lurkers:

I don't think it was a pH problem, even Miracid does not have the acidic effects you describe. pH causes lockouts at extremes of the pH range, you're getting burn from salts, sounds like ya overdid it based on what you've divulged to me so far.

pH issues are the first thing new growers point their finger at, Mg deficiency is next, it's the easy way out as opposed to understanding ALL of the dynamics of plant culture. Whatever, unless you can get me the CaCO3 equivalency (potential acidity) of your food off the label or from a tech sheet, it's anybody's guess what the pH effect is. If that is not available, look on the label and tell me what salts are used to provide the macros. I can tell you what's going on if you can give me that info. The CaCO3 ditty should read something like this - Potential Acidity: 1540 lb. calcium carbonate equivalent per ton. IOW, it takes 1,540 lbs. of CaCO3 (lime) to equalize 2,000 lbs. of this particular food to a neutral pH value - 7.0. The higher the PA is, the more acidic the food is and vice versa.

I also don't trust 90% of peeps' pH reports. Contrived pH issues often lie in the inaccuracy of the tests, methods used, quality of meter, lack of calibration using BOTH fresh fluids, etc.

How and with what did you measure pH?

Here is a spec sheet on an acid special food: http://www.scottspro.com/_documents/WSF/PetersProfessional/H4068.pdf
Note that that plant food mix contains 3 sulfates and boric acid, that's why it has an acidic affect.

There IS a "method to my madness". :D

UB
 
dream2003

dream2003

Well-Known Member
I use a ph test kit with ph test solution .I put water in a 5 ml tube and put 3 drops in of ph test solution shak the tube cheak the colur of the solution and its 6.4.dont no run off ph of soil. potting soil ferts is 0.08-0.12-0.08 minimum analisis
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
"crispy necrotic tips" is not a pH problem Kriegs, it is a response to too much salts. Please re-read the first post of this thread, I addressed the visible signs and I quote - "1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant size, vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. Sometimes copper colored necrotic spots show in the leaf also."

Which I questioned in my latest PM response to you. I think you blasted them with too much salts based on their rate of growth. You must gear the amount of salts (nutes) you give plants based on their requirements, not some label, chart or a he said-she said.

Regarding pH tests, like I told Kriegs, pH is the first "problem" new growers blame, it's the easy way out. I'll repeat my (embellished) PM response here for the benefit of the lurkers:

I don't think it was a pH problem, even Miracid does not have the acidic effects you describe. pH causes lockouts at extremes of the pH range, you're getting burn from salts, sounds like ya overdid it based on what you've divulged to me so far.

pH issues are the first thing new growers point their finger at, Mg deficiency is next, it's the easy way out as opposed to understanding ALL of the dynamics of plant culture. Whatever, unless you can get me the CaCO3 equivalency (potential acidity) of your food off the label or from a tech sheet, it's anybody's guess what the pH effect is. If that is not available, look on the label and tell me what salts are used to provide the macros. I can tell you what's going on if you can give me that info. The CaCO3 ditty should read something like this - Potential Acidity: 1540 lb. calcium carbonate equivalent per ton. IOW, it takes 1,540 lbs. of CaCO3 (lime) to equalize 2,000 lbs. of this particular food to a neutral pH value - 7.0. The higher the PA is, the more acidic the food is and vice versa.

I also don't trust 90% of peeps' pH reports. Contrived pH issues often lie in the inaccuracy of the tests, methods used, quality of meter, lack of calibration using BOTH fresh fluids, etc.

How and with what did you measure pH?

Here is a spec sheet on an acid special food: http://www.scottspro.com/_documents/WSF/PetersProfessional/H4068.pdf
Note that that plant food mix contains 3 sulfates and boric acid, that's why it has an acidic affect.

There IS a "method to my madness". :D

UB
Click to expand...
Just PM'ed you on this.. didn't look here first. Wish I did so we could share all of this.

For reasons more fully explained in the PM, you can have faith in my pH determination. :bigjoint:

I'm with ya... pH is usually the explanation when all else fails. My pH was around 4.0 -- that's a problem for any plant, except spahgnum moss and pond cypress.

Saw your comment on sulfates just above - your request to list salts in my nutes (I listed them in the PM) got me to see this -- there are sulfates and borates in Foxfarm nutes just like the acid mix you describe above. Tellin' ya bro, this FF shit is very acidic... that's prob. where it's coming from. Can't believe so many MJ growers recommend this shit, at least without saying 'WATCH OUT FOR THAT PH"

And I see a helluva lotta Foxfarm users on this site, and a lot of pic's like dream2003's..

For all of that, my babes really do seem to have arrested it. Tested pH on another plant today -- solidly betw 6-7. The "march" looks stopped, and they're poppin new bud all over, including right in the middle of the existing colas -- is this the "second surge" a lot of peeps describe? Based on how far up and in "the march" went, I suspect I was easily less than a week from total disaster had I not caught this pH business.
 
S

Stan'sSecretStash

Active Member
Quick question

If you use a moisture meeter, should you go by the reading at the very bottom of the container?

Second I have a small air compressor and use it by putting the nozzel directly into the soil and blowing air directly into the soil am I hurting the roots by doing this ?
 
C

cavemankay

Active Member
my plant wilted from one day to next 3 mo. old 5gal in soil 400w mh last watered 4 days ago w/ half recomended veg and vit b1 per the gallon for total of 2.5 gal per 5 gal need help
 
C

cavemankay

Active Member
by the look of your posts and replies ...its seems you know your stuff...think you can be of help ? i have a few vegging plants in a closet on a 18/6 cycle 5 gal pots and about 3 months old i use high grade potting soil my setup is pretty basic.....now , the one im concerned about is heavy wilting in only one......i watered it four days ago and i gave half the recommended veg and b-1....woke up this morning to find this problem ....when i noticed i thought maybe over fed veg solution so i thought flushing it with water and its still not reviving....am i drowning it??????
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cavemankay said:
by the look of your posts and replies ...its seems you know your stuff...think you can be of help ? i have a few vegging plants in a closet on a 18/6 cycle 5 gal pots and about 3 months old i use high grade potting soil my setup is pretty basic.....now , the one im concerned about is heavy wilting in only one......i watered it four days ago and i gave half the recommended veg and b-1....woke up this morning to find this problem ....when i noticed i thought maybe over fed veg solution so i thought flushing it with water and its still not reviving....am i drowning it??????
Click to expand...
Perhaps an unhealthy root system? There are many factors that can cause a lack of tissue turgor.
 
R

reinstorm

Active Member
hey my plants are around 80-85 degrees sometimes get to 88, i'm not sure why its so inconsistent, but is that temp too high? my leaves on all my plants have started to curl under, then i watered them more then they started curling up, and now some are curled under and some are curled up. sounds like a heat problem from reading your post but i didnt think my temp was that high.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
reinstorm said:
hey my plants are around 80-85 degrees sometimes get to 88, i'm not sure why its so inconsistent, but is that temp too high? my leaves on all my plants have started to curl under, then i watered them more then they started curling up, and now some are curled under and some are curled up. sounds like a heat problem from reading your post but i didnt think my temp was that high.
Click to expand...
Maybe "it" has nothing to do with temp. Maybe it has to do with too many salts.
 
bgmike8

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
i was flooding the tray every 2 hours. since the water barely touched the rockwool i thought more was better, but i think the leaves are saying help your drowning us you stupid fuck.

im switching to twice daily, does that seem right?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
bgmike8 said:
i was flooding the tray every 2 hours. since the water barely touched the rockwool i thought more was better, but i think the leaves are saying help your drowning us you stupid fuck.

im switching to twice daily, does that seem right?
Click to expand...
How could you drown the plants if you're not saturating the entire rockwool cube? They may be starved for moisture. I don't do rockwool, but a root medium is a root medium whether it be organic soil, soil-less, rock, or rockwool. You need to saturate the entire root medium and then go from there regarding frequency and proper aeration.

The issue is not necessarily too much water, it's too much water such that it prevents proper air exchange at the root zone.

UB
 
bgmike8

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
this rockwool sucks up water quicker than a fucking bounty paper towel. the bottom centimeter was touching the water but the whole fucking cube is soaked.
 
CodyCasualtiesEngland

CodyCasualtiesEngland

Active Member
i am in the 18-6 light cycle. I went down to check on my plant and it was all droopy. It got rally cold so i put a heater on it and check the next day and it was just as bad if not worse. I replanted it in new soil. When i pulled it out of the old pot all the roots were clumped together and could no longer spread out. I knocked some of the loose dirt of off the roots then replanted it. I have a thread with pics on it if you want to see. Thank you and any advise would be awesome!!!
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
CodyCasualtiesEngland said:
i am in the 18-6 light cycle. I went down to check on my plant and it was all droopy. It got rally cold so i put a heater on it and check the next day and it was just as bad if not worse. I replanted it in new soil. When i pulled it out of the old pot all the roots were clumped together and could no longer spread out. I knocked some of the loose dirt of off the roots then replanted it. I have a thread with pics on it if you want to see. Thank you and any advise would be awesome!!!
Click to expand...
You just butchered the root system and destroyed root hairs. Expect plant stress until it recovers, if it ever does. When you upcan, do not break up the rootball.

Good luck,
UB
 
FollyFool

FollyFool

Well-Known Member
Great post + rep.Information I needed badly.One other problem I discovered this am was what looks like white mold or mold on old bread all over the top layer of my soil.What exactly is the cause of this?I'm using Root's organic soil,plenty of air circulation,temp's between 77-80.I only water every 2-3 day's.Any help would be welcomed.
 
cloneup

cloneup

Well-Known Member
hey UB, just wanted to show you my plants, the very water stressed ones, LOL, like i said, let alone for a few days, then hit them with melted snow (perfect ph @6.5) and wow, no nutes ('cept fer the very first feedin) and these are the biggest i've gown in doors, the colas are as big as beer bottles, LOL, again, thanks for your no nonsense help, there needs to be alot more ppl like you on this site that truely want to help and dont have you running to the garden store for some new magic everyday, its always something small and takes even less effort and time to fix, people always think that doing more or buying magic will fix the problems and it doesn't, again, thanks










heres the next batch, not as big, but heathy as all hell,

 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cloneup said:
hey UB, just wanted to show you my plants, the very water stressed ones, LOL, like i said, let alone for a few days, then hit them with melted snow (perfect ph @6.5) and wow, no nutes ('cept fer the very first feedin) and these are the biggest i've gown in doors, the colas are as big as beer bottles,
Click to expand...
Wow! Beautiful job mah man! Keep those leaves healthy and green. ;)

LOL, again, thanks for your no nonsense help, there needs to be alot more ppl like you on this site that truely want to help and dont have you running to the garden store for some new magic everyday, its always something small and takes even less effort and time to fix, people always think that doing more or buying magic will fix the problems and it doesn't, again, thanks
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it better myself. ;-)

Glad to be here and sharing..... where folks seem anxious to learn rather than troll. It's refreshing. :D

Happy gardening,
UB
 
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