Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

90cody

Active Member
IMG_1458.jpgIMG_1450.jpgIMG_1454.jpgIMG_1456.jpgIMG_1460.jpgIMG_1462.jpgIMG_1464.jpgIMG_1466.jpg


maybe someone can answer some questions here.

Problem:
-Extremely dry Leaves
-Grey Necrosis on middle leaves
-Brown / Copper / Bronze tiny spots

Environment:
- Temp: 68-85
- Humidity: 20-50
- Ventilation: 6" Inline Fan 440 CFM
- Space: 4.5 x 4.5 x 6.5
- Light: 400 Watt HPS Cool Tube
- 12" osculating Blizzard Fan

Setup:
- 2 Gal Bucket DWC Hydroponic
- Medium: Rockwool / Hydroton
- 6" Net pot

H2O:
- pH: 5.4-5.8
- EC - 1.0
- PPM: 450
- Foxfarms Grow Big 1.5tsp per gal
- Tiger bloom: 2tsp per gal
- Big Bloom: 1.5tsp per gal
- Microbrew and Kangaroots: 1/4 tsp per gal
- Cal-Mag : 1tsp per gal

so im trying to figure out why my leaves are not getting water? they are not cupping, only dying back on some fan leaves, but they are paper dry
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
- Foxfarms Grow Big 1.5tsp per gal
- Tiger bloom: 2tsp per gal
- Big Bloom: 1.5tsp per gal
- Microbrew and Kangaroots: 1/4 tsp per gal
- Cal-Mag : 1tsp per gal

so im trying to figure out why my leaves are not getting water? they are not cupping, only dying back on some fan leaves, but they are paper dry
Looks like a lot of salts to me.
 

Butcher Bob

Active Member
Hey Ben :cool:

Coulda swore I had sent another long e-mail...with my luck I probly closed the window insteada hittin "send".:wall:

Bin tryin the buckit stuff myself...~Goddess Supreme~ sed you might git a kick outta my struggles...I concurred. So have a look...here...and have a chuckle at my expense. I feel like such a n00b agin.:dunce:
 

90cody

Active Member
Looks like a lot of salts to me.
what should my PPM or EC be if it is to much?

Like i said my PPM is only 450 and i have read on here that

eedlings should be around 50-150 PPM
Unrooted clones to be around 100-350 PPM
small plants to be around 400-800 PPM
large plants to be around 900-1800 PPM
Last week of flowering use plain water.

so if this is true, i just do not understand how at 450 PPM i am having nute burn???

i need someone to guide me in the right direction with E.C and PPM or tell me the exceptions to these rules???

also, the fox farm feeding schedule is calling for 1.8 E.C and 1600-1800 PPM at week 6, obviously i am no where near that strong...
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
what should my PPM or EC be if it is to much?

Like i said my PPM is only 450 and i have read on here that

eedlings should be around 50-150 PPM
Unrooted clones to be around 100-350 PPM
small plants to be around 400-800 PPM
large plants to be around 900-1800 PPM
Last week of flowering use plain water.

so if this is true, i just do not understand how at 450 PPM i am having nute burn???

i need someone to guide me in the right direction with E.C and PPM or tell me the exceptions to these rules???

also, the fox farm feeding schedule is calling for 1.8 E.C and 1600-1800 PPM at week 6, obviously i am no where near that strong...
up the food a bit. thats not too much , thats not enough. go with 3 tsp of grow big with your mix. and dont use the calmag more then once a week or less. if you got a food with a high K then give it that for a feeding or two, then go back to regular diet.
450 is barely enough for a baby if done right.


soil
 

90cody

Active Member
up the food a bit. thats not too much , thats not enough. go with 3 tsp of grow big with your mix. and dont use the calmag more then once a week or less. if you got a food with a high K then give it that for a feeding or two, then go back to regular diet.
450 is barely enough for a baby if done right.


soil
thank you bud, i was thinking the same thing but needed that 2nd opinion..
i do have one question..

u say dont give cal mag except once a week?? since i have a hydro system that would not be possible unless i foilar feed once a week ?

i also have noticed foilar feeding water has seem to help with how dry the leaves are.. so could this be because lack of nutrients making it hard for the water transpiration to travel to the leaves...

because its definitely not moving to fast from the leaves or they would be curling up, so its like they are not quite making it to some of them..

new growth is still going and i can see flowers starting to come out and im starting to get some skunky smell..

edit: also added rep+ to you
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
thank you bud, i was thinking the same thing but needed that 2nd opinion..
i do have one question..

u say dont give cal mag except once a week?? since i have a hydro system that would not be possible unless i foilar feed once a week ?

i also have noticed foilar feeding water has seem to help with how dry the leaves are.. so could this be because lack of nutrients making it hard for the water transpiration to travel to the leaves...

because its definitely not moving to fast from the leaves or they would be curling up, so its like they are not quite making it to some of them..

new growth is still going and i can see flowers starting to come out and im starting to get some skunky smell..

edit: also added rep+ to you
it dont matter if its hydro or not , just put the cal mag in once a week or less. (the plant will pull it out of the water pretty quick.)
anything but RO water dont need the extra ca an mg but if you got it then once a week or two is fine.
the leaf is not "drying out" , its dying. it could be a number of things , but im gonna go with lack of food. (mainly K) when a plant runs out of food it will start eating its own leaves. (mainly N) too much ca can lock out N .... ect...

up your whole diet and she will be fine.


soil
 

90cody

Active Member
i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason??

so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??

I have also added 1/2 tsp of Big Bloom and Tiger bloom (1 tsp) total, which brought PPM from 450 to 550 and EC from .9 to 1.0

They are not as dry although i still see brown spots progressing, if i must say it seems that it is slowed slightly..

so im gonna give em all day today and then tomorrow add another tsp of BB and TB which should bring it up to 650.. and give it another 2 days to react. i plan on doing this until i get it about 750-850

also have some more pics of some pruned damaged leaves

IMG_1468.jpgIMG_1470.jpgIMG_1472.jpgIMG_1474.jpgIMG_1476.jpgIMG_1478.jpg
 

90cody

Active Member
IMG_1482.jpgIMG_1480.jpgIMG_1488.jpgIMG_1484.jpgIMG_1486.jpg

also , since you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, may i pass this question to you?

let me know what u think is going on ..

Setup.
Closet 2x3.5
One T5 90watt grow light
One T5 light from lowes this one has more of a yellow tone compared to the grow light which is white blue
Coco Coir mixed with cut peices of rockwool and hydroton at bottom inch to stop coir and ensure drainage
Red cups until i transfer them to either bigger buckets or switch them to dwc buckets (depending on what people think i should do, im always willing to learn)
Feed once and water twice, i wait till top soil is dry and cup is light , coco coir has good water rentention.
Im not sure if feeding is to early but i am only feeding them 250 ppm, just basic grow big fox farms ( i start with a 25ppm tap water that is sitting in clean DWC resivour)

Pictures:
1. & 2. Are the same plant, Pic 1 being a close up of what looks like a pH issue, but runoff is 6.5-6.8. This is auora indica
3. I think this one is Ice, seems healthy for the most part , not sure if i should be looking for darker green or not..
4. Seems to have mutated leaves.. not sure what is causing this..
5. Purple Power, looking healthy , one concern is the yellowing tips and grey necrosis?

Thanks in advancebongsmilie
 
Hello Uncle Ben. I'm new and I need help.

I am in the 7th week of vegging (Mazzar), the other day I noticed this plant looked a little over watered (tips curling under), so I haven't watered it since then. Then this morning it looked a little wilted. I water it the same time as my other plants and they are fine. I have given it seabird guano tea twice, and started using molasses every third watering starting week 3, and strait water in between. They are 4 gallon pots with good drainage. I am using a 600 Watt MH bulb 2 ft. above the plants. This is my second grow. I had no problem with my first grow (I used fluros). Until the other day it was very healthy, the fan leaves are huge...Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Hello Uncle Ben. I'm new and I need help.

I am in the 7th week of vegging (Mazzar), the other day I noticed this plant looked a little over watered (tips curling under), so I haven't watered it since then. Then this morning it looked a little wilted. I water it the same time as my other plants and they are fine. I have given it seabird guano tea twice, and started using molasses every third watering starting week 3, and strait water in between. They are 4 gallon pots with good drainage. I am using a 600 Watt MH bulb 2 ft. above the plants. This is my second grow. I had no problem with my first grow (I used fluros). Until the other day it was very healthy, the fan leaves are huge...Any help would be greatly appreciated.

That plant has plenty of foliage which is rapidly wicking off soil moisture. Water the hell out of it. If the pot is light to the lift, water.

Nice job,
UB
 
Thanks for the response. She is my 2nd confirmed female out of 5 (2 are definitely male), so I don't want to lose her. Also can you suggest any good organic/soil nutes for flowering? Thanks again for all your help.
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason??

so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??

I have also added 1/2 tsp of Big Bloom and Tiger bloom (1 tsp) total, which brought PPM from 450 to 550 and EC from .9 to 1.0

They are not as dry although i still see brown spots progressing, if i must say it seems that it is slowed slightly..

so im gonna give em all day today and then tomorrow add another tsp of BB and TB which should bring it up to 650.. and give it another 2 days to react. i plan on doing this until i get it about 750-850

also have some more pics of some pruned damaged leaves
take away from the tiger and add more grow instead. she wants more N. big bloom is for soil , but i guess it wont hurt to use in hydro. (fuck what the bottle says)

i dont know much about the ppm going down after food is gone. (makes sense though, right) i do know that your ph will rise when she eats. start at say 5.5 and watch it rise to 6-6.2 and take it back down with ph down. (it needs to flutuate a lil bit so more nutes are available)

my opinion is she wants 800to 1000 ppm right now. if she starts not likin the more food then get rid of it.... simple. a slight over feeding will not hurt at all.

now as far as your seeds. the one on the far right is staying too wet, thats all. the others appear to want some food, but thats not a big deal like the moisture control.



soil
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the response. She is my 2nd confirmed female out of 5 (2 are definitely male), so I don't want to lose her. Also can you suggest any good organic/soil nutes for flowering? Thanks again for all your help.
I am not an organic purist. I also like slow release foods like Osmocote, their 10-10-10. I use a 18-5-9 with micros from start to finish. I blend in the complete encapsulated plant food, plant, water, and leave it alone until harvest. Doesn't answer your concern though. For blooming, I'd recommend the duty 1-3-2 like Jack's Blossom Booster or you can work in a couple of teaspoons of bone meal, in a typical commercial soil blend. I don't know what kind of NPK nutrient charge your mix started with or has now. That needs to be considered too before you start throwing stuff at it. It's a "sum of the parts" thingie. Contrary to popular forum thought and parroted paradigms, growing is NOT about the buds, at least it shouldn't be. Master gardening is about producing and maintaining the most amount of healthy foliage (and roots) until harvest. Think outside of the box on this one. And if you've been following the crap regurgitated in all cannabis growing sites, this concept is gonna be outside of your comfort zone, if you know what I mean. 90% of folks will eventually screw up their plants by the abuse of bloom foods, supplements and such. Keep the foliage green and healthy, that is your focus even if it requires you use a high N food like 30-10-10 during flowering. Don't worry about the buds, they'll be there when they're damn good and ready.

Again, the plant's branches are droopy which suggests insufficient moisture. When you have such nice thick, healthy foliage, it is next to impossible to over water. As quickly as you water the plant it's wicking off soil moisture via the roots as driven by leaf transpiration, capillary action, internal tissue water turgor (pressure). Such a nice condition provides for a lot of soil aeration automatically. It's just that easy.

FWIW, I've had plants like yours in a 3 gallon pot and they were using water so fast I had to water twice per day. Water until you get good runoff from the drain holes, don't be stingy. If the plants are in saucers (the kind with 2" tall sides) you can use a turkey baster to suck up the tea out of the saucer and then use the tea on indoor plants or your garden outdoors, etc.

Might wanna flip the switch real soon or you're gonna end up with a tree! That Mazaar looks pure indica and capable of producing huge rock solid colas much like my avatar, IF, you maintain the leaves in their current healthy condition until harvest. Just a thought, there's gonna be A LOT of phytochrome hormonal action with that Mazzar, such that you could probably feed it pure N like blood meal, ammonium nitrate, UAN, etc. and it wouldn't even faze the flowering response.

Good luck,
UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
i under the impression that a DWC system can go weeks without using up nutrients for some reason?? so that brings up another question, why does the PPM not drop down after weeks of a plant using the nutrients??
Plant isn't using the salts. There's little bulk, plant mass. You feed, gauge the provision of salts based on the activity and size of the plant. It's all about plant requirements. Would you expect your baby brother to need the same amount of food as your 225 lb. Dad? Of course not.
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
It's a "sum of the parts" thingie. Contrary to popular forum thought and parroted paradigms, growing is NOT about the buds, at least it shouldn't be. Master gardening is about producing and maintaining the most amount of healthy foliage (and roots) until harvest.

Think outside of the box on this one. And if you've been following the crap regurgitated in all cannabis growing sites, this concept is gonna be outside of your comfort zone, if you know what I mean. 90% of folks will eventually screw up their plants by the abuse of bloom foods, supplements and such. Keep the foliage green and healthy, that is your focus even if it requires you use a high N food like 30-10-10 during flowering. Don't worry about the buds, they'll be there when they're damn good and ready.


Good luck,
UB
UB , as always you have the best info! you KNOW what a plant needs. not just what folks think it might want.

i totally agree , advanced growing is about the plant , the foliage and the roots , all the rest will come. The MAIN goal we have is to keep the foliage green and healthy to the end , no matter what food you use to do that.
The healthier the foliage , the bigger the buds. period.

thanks UB :clap:



soil :bigjoint:
 

90cody

Active Member
I've brought it up to 820ish ppm and it's still progressing with the same issues... Should I bring it up to 1000 if I don't see improvement in a few days
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
I've brought it up to 820ish ppm and it's still progressing with the same issues... Should I bring it up to 1000 if I don't see improvement in a few days
as long as you added a bit more "grow" with the bloom food , you'll be alright. it is gonna be very hard to tell if its helping for the first few days. you'll see the difference within a week. the stuff thats already "dried" or dead an crispy is not gonna get better. just watch for the ones that dont have it to get it.

a healthy plant of that size will eat all that 820 in a day or two. (you should see it with the ph meter going up.)


soil
 

90cody

Active Member
Alright this is how it works..

Was at 400ish.. Since u said it needed grow big which is my 3-2-6 so I added about 2 tsp of GB, which automatically brought ph from 5.6 to a 3.8, I dont add ph or down because the ph automatically adjust within 12 hours to normal ph.. I was making the mistake of adding the ph up then after 12 hours it would be to high so once I noticed that I stopped changing until it sat. It is now at 5.6 an plants are still progressing at same rate. I clipped off any leaves that were 60% damaged within 2 days I already have other fan leaves that have progressed from 5-10% damage to now about 70% damage.. Complete browning in center of leaves.. And dry crispy fan leaves curling up.. The purple/red stems is 100% corresponding with this problem.. I know people say that this coloring is genetic but not the case here.. I watch this spread like a disease travels up the stalk and then to fan leaves. U can see the purple/red go all the way to the veins at the center of fan leaf, once that hits is when it starts browning..

I do not have one fan leaf that has gotten bigger then my palm. Once they get that size that shrivel and die...

Starting to feel like I need to stop using fox farm
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Hey Ben :cool:

Coulda swore I had sent another long e-mail...with my luck I probly closed the window insteada hittin "send".:wall:

Bin tryin the buckit stuff myself...~Goddess Supreme~ sed you might git a kick outta my struggles...I concurred. So have a look...here...and have a chuckle at my expense. I feel like such a n00b agin.:dunce:
Yep, I think you did. Just checked my mail and don't have anything recent.
 
Top