Plants are looking terrible and idk why? Coco/Perl + salts

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budtoker221

Well-Known Member
The plants that I grew recently that I fed mostly water and low levels of salt nutes in coco all the way thru flower, letting it dry almost 100% bone dry between waterings ended up being pretty decent smoke and didn’t taste too much like nutrients. The buds were better quality and less chemically tasting than all the commercial stuff I can get recently that all seems to taste like the way that bottle of foliar spray smells that I picked up at the garden store recently, I was spraying an outdoor plant with it because we have a lot of humidity here. I recognized the way the foliar spray smells because it reminded me of the flavor of all the mid grade weed floating about these days, I checked the label listing the ingredients - Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens.
I would personally rather use dry back as a method of keeping root rot at bay than using one of these “root conditioners”
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
budtoker221 said:
The plants that I grew recently that I fed mostly water and low levels of salt nutes in coco all the way thru flower, letting it dry almost 100% bone dry between waterings ended up being pretty decent smoke and didn’t taste too much like nutrients. The buds were better quality and less chemically tasting than all the commercial stuff I can get recently that all seems to taste like the way that bottle of foliar spray smells that I picked up at the garden store recently, I was spraying an outdoor plant with it because we have a lot of humidity here. I recognized the way the foliar spray smells because it reminded me of the flavor of all the mid grade weed floating about these days, I checked the label listing the ingredients - Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens.
I would personally rather use dry back as a method of keeping root rot at bay than using one of these “root conditioners”
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Coco should be kept between 90-100% saturation at all times; there's no reason to let it dry back at all.

Out of curiosity, what do nutrients taste like?
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
You probably still end up with the same or higher EC in your root zone by feeding low strength nutes and letting it go bone dry between watering as people that feed higher EC multiple times a day.

Root rot is more attributed to high water temperatures than watering your plants too often....otherwise hydroponic methods where roots are submerged in water would not even work.
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
budtoker221 said:
The plants that I grew recently that I fed mostly water and low levels of salt nutes in coco all the way thru flower, letting it dry almost 100% bone dry between waterings ended up being pretty decent smoke and didn’t taste too much like nutrients. The buds were better quality and less chemically tasting than all the commercial stuff I can get recently that all seems to taste like the way that bottle of foliar spray smells that I picked up at the garden store recently, I was spraying an outdoor plant with it because we have a lot of humidity here. I recognized the way the foliar spray smells because it reminded me of the flavor of all the mid grade weed floating about these days, I checked the label listing the ingredients - Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens.
I would personally rather use dry back as a method of keeping root rot at bay than using one of these “root conditioners”
Click to expand...
I'm not even going to get into all the tasting nutrients in your smoke stuff...

Bacillus amyloliquefaciens occurs naturally in soil and is a helpful bacteria to plants. In your gut, you also have naturally occurring bacteria that keeps you healthy. If you take very strong antibiotics, such as clindamycin for an infection, it also wipes out the good bacteria in your gut. Look up clostridium difficile (C. diff) to see what happens without good bacteria in your gut.

Adding Bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydro via Hydroguard or Defguard is just giving the plant what it gets in nature.
 
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budtoker221

Well-Known Member
ec121 said:
I'm not even going to get into all the tasting nutrients in your smoke stuff...

Bacillus amyloliquefaciens occurs naturally in soil and is a helpful bacteria to plants. In your gut, you also have naturally occurring bacteria that keeps you healthy. If you take very strong antibiotics, such as clindamycin for an infection, it also wipes out the good bacteria in your gut. Look up clostridium difficile (C. diff) to see what happens without good bacteria in your gut.

Adding Bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydro via Hydroguard or Defguard is just giving the plant what it gets in nature.
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I would assume that the concentrations of Bacillus amyloliquefaciens found naturally in soil are a bit different than the amount people are growing with. Hydrogen peroxide is found naturally in rainwater too.
 
B

budtoker221

Well-Known Member
ec121 said:
Why would you assume that and why do you think it's dangerous?
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The bottle of foliar spray from the garden store with the Bacillus amyloliquefaciens had a distinct bacterial or chemical smell that was way stronger or different than the way soil typically smells. I can’t say for certain that hydro growers using Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are using it at way higher concentrations than what is naturally found in soil but it wouldn’t surprise me especially since I assume a lot of the commercial grows are using something similiar to Bacillus amyloliquefaciens and all the weed around my area these days had a nauseating chemical smell that is similar in my opinion to the foliar spray.
I would assume it’s like peroxide, I’m fairly certain that rainwater has less than the amount that hydro growers are using, however I’ve never measured the h202 levels in rainwater and wouldn’t know how.
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
budtoker221 said:
The bottle of foliar spray from the garden store with the Bacillus amyloliquefaciens had a distinct bacterial or chemical smell that was way stronger or different than the way soil typically smells. I can’t say for certain that hydro growers using Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are using it at way higher concentrations than what is naturally found in soil but it wouldn’t surprise me especially since I assume a lot of the commercial grows are using something similiar to Bacillus amyloliquefaciens and all the weed around my area these days had a nauseating chemical smell that is similar in my opinion to the foliar spray.
I would assume it’s like peroxide, I’m fairly certain that rainwater has less than the amount that hydro growers are using, however I’ve never measured the h202 levels in rainwater and wouldn’t know how.
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The Bacillus amyloliquefaciens I use is concentrated to 98.85%. It smells like chocolate milk to me. I use 4 literal drops per gallon of water. That's 1ml per 5 gallons of water, or 0.034oz mixed into 640oz.

What's the brand and name of the product you're using as a foliar?

budtoker221 said:
I would assume it’s like peroxide, I’m fairly certain that rainwater has less than the amount that hydro growers are using, however I’ve never measured the h202 levels in rainwater and wouldn’t know how.
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How much H2O2 do you think hydro users who run sterile use?
 
E

EKG Cal Canna

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
One of the most illustrative examples of why drying coco isn't great. Well done!
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That's how I currently run in rockwool,dryback late day. 1hr after lights on ,feed 6 to 7 times. I still won't grow in sopping wet coco regardless of what all the science says because root rots namely Pythium & fusarium are active in my region & they thrive in wet soggy pots.Water after it's been thru RO provides no protection as the chlorine is removed & H202 is merely a band aid for root problems. For me in coco, running drier has been the only solution for years.When the dreaded root rots strike I'll freely share the simple solutions.
 
B

budtoker221

Well-Known Member
ec121 said:
The Bacillus amyloliquefaciens I use is concentrated to 98.85%. It smells like chocolate milk to me. I use 4 literal drops per gallon of water. That's 1ml per 5 gallons of water, or 0.034oz mixed into 640oz.

What's the brand and name of the product you're using as a foliar?



How much H2O2 do you think hydro users who run sterile use?
Click to expand...
the foliar spray was called “revitalize” I threw it out because I didn’t want to be breathing in the vapors of that stuff while I sprayed it but I just looked up the detailed data sheet on it and it says it contains 9.8% bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747. There are no other listed ingredients.
the foliar spray didn’t smell like chocolate milk although maybe a chocolate-ammonia-sour milk chemical like aroma I just remember it was a slightly nauseating aroma however this strain used in the foliar spray might be different than the ones used in root conditioners for hydro.

I’m not sure how much peroxide people typically use but I’ve seen suggestions for 3-5 ml 3% which is a very small amount and I doubt that would effect taste however in my experience trying to battle root rot with h202 you need much more than that.
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
budtoker221 said:
the foliar spray was called “revitalize” I threw it out because I didn’t want to be breathing in the vapors of that stuff while I sprayed it but I just looked up the detailed data sheet on it and it says it contains 9.8% bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747. There are no other listed ingredients.
the foliar spray didn’t smell like chocolate milk although maybe a chocolate-ammonia-sour milk chemical like aroma I just remember it was a slightly nauseating aroma however this strain used in the foliar spray might be different than the ones used in root conditioners for hydro.

I’m not sure how much peroxide people typically use but I’ve seen suggestions for 3-5 ml 3% which is a very small amount and I doubt that would effect taste however in my experience trying to battle root rot with h202 you need much more than that.
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It lists 90.12% = other ingredients. Is it water? Maybe, but it's not OMRI listed. Did they not want to get organic listed? Maybe, but Bacillus amyloliquefaciens is organic and nearly every product with it as the active ingredient bothers to get it OMRI listed. D747 is the same strain used in hydro.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
EKG Cal Canna said:
That's how I currently run in rockwool,dryback late day. 1hr after lights on ,feed 6 to 7 times. I still won't grow in sopping wet coco regardless of what all the science says because root rots namely Pythium & fusarium are active in my region & they thrive in wet soggy pots.Water after it's been thru RO provides no protection as the chlorine is removed & H202 is merely a band aid for root problems. For me in coco, running drier has been the only solution for years.When the dreaded root rots strike I'll freely share the simple solutions.
Click to expand...
If you stop removing chlorine from your water that should improve your root rot problems. If your water source is too high in minerals or the wrong ones, add chlorine back after you've run your water through the RO filter. That will also help your root rot issues. Another thing that will assist you in your quest to conquer your root rot issues is not handling seeds during germination. Put them directly in their substrate and avoid inoculating their tap roots with your body's flora.

Welcome to RIU.
 
E

EKG Cal Canna

Well-Known Member
budtoker221 said:
The plants that I grew recently that I fed mostly water and low levels of salt nutes in coco all the way thru flower, letting it dry almost 100% bone dry between waterings ended up being pretty decent smoke and didn’t taste too much like nutrients. The buds were better quality and less chemically tasting than all the commercial stuff I can get recently that all seems to taste like the way that bottle of foliar spray smells that I picked up at the garden store recently, I was spraying an outdoor plant with it because we have a lot of humidity here. I recognized the way the foliar spray smells because it reminded me of the flavor of all the mid grade weed floating about these days, I checked the label listing the ingredients - Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens.
I would personally rather use dry back as a method of keeping root rot at bay than using one of these “root conditioners”
Click to expand...
How long of a flush are you doing at end? I get it super clean tasting with just tap & cleanse the first few days & then 9 or 10 days of just tap
 
E

EKG Cal Canna

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
If you stop removing chlorine from your water that should improve your root rot problems. If your water source is too high in minerals or the wrong ones, add chlorine back after you've run your water through the RO filter. That will also help your root rot issues. Another thing that will assist you in your quest to conquer your root rot issues is not handling seeds during germination. Put them directly in their substrate and avoid inoculating their tap roots with your body's flora.

Welcome to RIU.
Click to expand...
Thx, ppm in my local tap is often at 600 & sometimes as high as 820. I'm on a desert valley floor & the water table sometimes is at 40 ft. I don't run seeds at my facility for that reason plus I don't currently have the space to find a winner out of 60 seeds. I do it off site. Seeding & pollens are off site
Hollatchaboy said:
So you starve your plants for a couple weeks? To what end?
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I feed for Abt 50 days,strain depending. Then flush for 11 to 14 days. It gets all the taste of the nutes out of the flower. They bulk up nicely during that time. No hardeners/ripeners nothing, just cleanse for a couple days. My people want the taste of the flower not the nutes
 
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