please, i need help!!!

hi guys

could really do with some ideas here as i'm all out of 'em and i need to save the rest of my head as i'm bashing that wall with it so much!!!!!

this is a bit of an epic so i hope you don't mind!

been growing a few years (10+) without any major problems cept the odd spider mite attack, but nothing serious.

for the last few years have been growing white widow and pot of gold in 8ft nft system under 3 x 600w sodiums.

i've one mum of pot of gold and one of white widow (replaced each year with grow on cuttings), which i take my cuttings from 6-8 weeks before they're needed in the table - depending how efficient i'm being at the time! (all veg in separate room)

i feed with canna aqua + PK in flower, and formulex in veg, keep PH in the early 6's

usually average about 0.8-0.9g/watt from the 600's i use which is ok

anyway, all was hunkydory until last year when i decided to give up and pursue other avenues.....

then had a lightbulb moment and realised that particular avenue was a dead end and had to start up again!

well, i'd never give up totally, so had couple of plants i could grow on as mum's and get cuttings from, but nothing to put in my tables immediately - so i took in cuttings from elsewhere ........

something i never normally do, but times and needs and all that......

and thats where the problems started!

In with the cuttings came a load of spider mite and a load of fungus gnats. The spider mite i've dealt with before, 2000 predators while they're still veggin, bosh! sorted!

The fungus gnats (i know they now are that - i was thinking thrips) i had had living around me before, i had my sticky traps up, and i thought that was enough and that they were pretty harmless - i couldn't of been more wrong!



this picture shows table currently, after 4wks 12/12, note yellowing leaves on top 2/3 of table. This is the start of my problem and i know from painful experience where its going to end up, the older leaves turn yellow, then brown, then die, then fall off - this happens over approx 7day period. Then the newer leaves start to go and finally end up as in this pic below...


the picture above (of a different crop) was taken just before cutting, after 8wks. But illustrates how the plants end up - brown dead leaves, weak and poorly developed.


One of my big problems is that when i plant the table, they have to stay there until they're finished 8wks later, so each time i try a problem solver, if it doesn't cure the problem then i have to wait until the 8wk period is up before trying something different.

i have had three failed crops now, the last returned me 0.1g/watt!

the problem, is NOT the following because we have been through these thoroughly :-
PH
nutrient

I have identified that we were infested with fungus gnats in the veg area which i am in the latter stages of getting to grips with - i've put sticky traps on every cutting and treat with gnat off every watering. This infestation seems to be the root of our problem, as the rockwool cubes were infested with gnats and gnat larvae in the veggin area. I assume that when they were put into flower, the damage that the gnats had caused to the roots caused the resulting discolouration and lose of leaves. When you look at the roots they are a very unhealthy brown colour.

Does anyone have any comments about that, my assumption?

This browning of the roots made me think that maybe the fungus gnats had let some wilt get into the plant and infect it.

They aren't infested any more, and the new cuttings coming through are gnat free


these two pics are of the plant where the symptons 1st showed themselves on the current table, this would be in the top left hand of the 1st pic


this last picture is of the right hand side of table when compared to 1st pic

What i would really like to know is why the plants on the left have started to turn yellow, and yet the ones on the right have not.

ALL these four plants came from a healthy veg room and could only of been infected by whatever when they were put into my table 4 weeks ago. The yellowing plant on the left took off so well that i thought problem had been solved, it easily would of returned 6oz+ - that is until it too turned!


Could the fungus gnats have been so devastating to a healthy mature plant's root system in 4 weeks?

If not, could the infection maybe spread through the nutrient solution?
Is it possible that the mums are infected, and would this also infect every cutting i take from said mum?

Sorry for long post, please ask any questions or offer any advice you like, i'm all ears!

I've read through a lot of stuff on this site, and your knowledge and experience is properly needed now!

bump this baby

yeah kind of looks liek what my plants looked like after a long time..and i couldnt figure out what th eproblem was..what were the very very very first sysytems

Quickee said:

yeah kind of looks liek what my plants looked like after a long time..and i couldnt figure out what th eproblem was..what were the very very very first sysytems

Click to expand...

hi quickee

thanks for getting in touch

1st sympton is always the older fan leaves yellowing, then drooping, then goin crispy n dying

plant always survives to harvest, just! Its like its being strangled for the remaining weeks and can't take up the feed once those leaves go yellow

always seems to be about 3 weeks into flowering it shows these symptons also

did you figure it out in the end quickee?

anyone else got experience with fungus gnats or these symptons described above? would really appreciate your input

what i'm really trying to find out is if the fungus gnats are the problem (which is a battle being fought and won as we speak), or if i'm missing something!

thanks guys

You said your sure it's not nutes or Ph.
So, can you tell me what your Ph is?
How much and how often your giving nutes?

Sure Shot said:

You said your sure it's not nutes or Ph.

Click to expand...

Sure Shot said:

So, can you tell me what your Ph is?
How much and how often your giving nutes?

Click to expand...

hi sure shot

thanks for getting in touch

my Ph is kept between 6 and 6.5, i aim for 6.2

i've a 110 litre tank that is maintained at EC level of between 1.7 and 2.0 (1100-1400ppm approx) depending on the stage of flowering. Tapwater is EC 0.5

its a NFT system, so nutes are always available.

this is the same format i've been using for years

any ideas sure shot?

That is a difficult one my friend.
But, something tells me that yes your roots are infected!
I think maybe a fungus or mold started growing on your rockwool.
And unfortunately if this is the case, yes it can and will most likely spread.
Have you noticed any spreading?
Like 1-2 plants far worse off then others that are steadily getting worse?
If this is the case then your situation is dire!
I have not personally had to battle fungi in my room yet.
But I do have a couple suggestions.

Make sure absolutely zero light is getting into your reservoir, then check again.
Try adding some Hydrogen Peroxide into your res. to help wipe the slate clean of any microbes(benificial+harmful).

Also once you've harvested and at the first chance I would scour your whole grow with bleach + water before putting more girls in there.

Sure Shot said:

That is a difficult one my friend.
But, something tells me that yes your roots are infected!
I think maybe a fungus or mold started growing on your rockwool.
And unfortunately if this is the case, yes it can and will most likely spread.
Have you noticed any spreading?
Like 1-2 plants far worse off then others that are steadily getting worse?
If this is the case then your situation is dire!
I have not personally had to battle fungi in my room yet.
But I do have a couple suggestions.

Make sure absolutely zero light is getting into your reservoir, then check again.
Try adding some Hydrogen Peroxide into your res. to help wipe the slate clean of any microbes(benificial+harmful).

Also once you've harvested and at the first chance I would scour your whole grow with bleach + water before putting more girls in there.

Click to expand...

thanks for reply sure shot

i'm adding liquid oxygen (hydrogen peroxide) at the rate of 2ml/litre to try to help matters

i'm also top pouring 500ml of gnatoff every other day on each plant because i've still got the fungus gnats on this table (i've tried adding it to reservoir with zero success)

cleaning with a strong bleach solution is definately on my agenda for when this table is done, i'll put it through the whole system, pipes and all, but i'd really like to salvage something from this table more than stupid grams per watt like the last one (0.17g/watt)

i get minimal light into the root area, but as you can see the table has a plastic white cover, so its impossible to maintain zero light - this has never been a problem before

the roots have been infected - somehow

they are brown and the amount of water/nutrient consumed ina day has reduced from approx 20litres to less than 5 litres

i've inserted some more pictures of the current state of play

any suggestions gratefully received!

I think your right to think your roots are fukked. I have almost the same problem now . But I don't get my 8 weeks anymore. I get big bitchen promising plants then at 4 weeks leaves spot, then the spots spead to a mg deficiency stage even though i add mg. They die and finish off within a week or two. Very sad. I have many years under the belt and successful grows. I tried to change everything then last week i realized that paint supply toxins were being sucked in regularly thru the vent(long story) . i remedied that but it's too late. I still haven't proved it to be the problem but I tried three different mediums of Cocoa, water( hydro) and dirt. I even went to the local river and took a bunch of river water. Then bought an Ro filter for my tap water. Tried four different nutrient brands. THen when I saw them all crash at once I figured it's not the water, nutes,ph,fungus(visible anyway)or other infestations. The air is my only hope and logical explaination. Regarding the roots though. My roots look ok but they have stopped uptaking any nutes. Both mediums. They all turn bad at the same stage of growth. THat's whats curiuos about yours. It seems that halfway thru bud the plants desire something they can't get. THen they just stop being so happy. Mine die. Like sabotage. But it's not. I'm pretty sure. i figure a sabotager would rather just rip it off. Check you rooom for possible outgassings of fumes.
If your roots are looking toast though that is where i would focus. my buddies guru mentioned Hydrogrow as a great root helper. i also use h202 with great success at keeping the roots whiter. I'll be whaching this and i hope you post your success when you get it. Good luck

hi guys

thought i'd give you an update to this quandry i've been having

About three weeks back now a friend of mine gave me one of his mum's to help me along, as due to this problem my plant numbers have reduced drastically over the last few months.

This mum was nearly 18months old, had been used for countless cuttings and was healthily living in a soil container when it arrived with me.

I took some cuttings from the mum before watering it and putting it into a tent to recover.

For a week all was well, then pretty much over night the majority of the fan leaves went yellow, died and fell off (see pic)



This freaked me right out as it was showing the same symptons as the other plants, but had only been fed on water. So i started looking at the water supply closer and decided to do a little experiment.

The water supply i was using, and have been for years was from a tank in my roof. Fresh water comes in from the mains into the storage tank, and this is then used for the hot water system, upstairs taps and toilets. All pretty standard i would guess.

What i did was manage to get four cuttings from a friend that had just rooted - two of these i put in bubblers using water from upstairs, and the other two were put in bubblers using water from downstairs (mains supply).

Well, after a week the results are amazing! I am totally gobsmacked as to the difference.

The ones using upstairs water (from storage tank) have gone yellow with brown rusty roots while the ones using downstairs water, fresh from the mains supply have grown healthy new growth and a nice root ball with beautiful white roots! (see pics)



So, obviously i now am using water direct from the mains now, even though it means carting buckets all over the place!

And everything has properly taken off again

However, i have no idea why, after years using the water from that tank, it is now doing this to my plants.

If anyone has any idea i would be very interested to find out!!!!!!

peace