Police Tracking your Cars

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
Wisconsin court upholds GPS tracking by police

By RYAN J. FOLEY |Associated Press Writer2:42 PM CDT, May 7, 2009 MADISON, Wis. - Wisconsin police can attach GPS to cars to secretly track anybody's movements without obtaining search warrants, an appeals court ruled Thursday.

However, the District 4 Court of Appeals said it was "more than a little troubled" by that conclusion and asked Wisconsin lawmakers to regulate GPS use to protect against abuse by police and private individuals.

As the law currently stands, the court said police can mount GPS on cars to track people without violating their constitutional rights -- even if the drivers aren't suspects.

Officers do not need to get warrants beforehand because GPS tracking does not involve a search or a seizure, Judge Paul Lundsten wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel based in Madison.



That means "police are seemingly free to secretly track anyone's public movements with a GPS device," he wrote.

One privacy advocate said the decision opened the door for greater government surveillance of citizens. Meanwhile, law enforcement officials called the decision a victory for public safety because tracking devices are an increasingly important tool in investigating criminal behavior.

The ruling came in a 2003 case involving Michael Sveum, a Madison man who was under investigation for stalking. Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway. The device recorded his car's movements for five weeks before police retrieved it and downloaded the information.

The information suggested Sveum was stalking the woman, who had gone to police earlier with suspicions. Police got a second warrant to search his car and home, found more evidence and arrested him. He was convicted of stalking and sentenced to prison.

Sveum, 41, argued the tracking violated his Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. He argued the device followed him into areas out of public view, such as his garage.

The court disagreed. The tracking did not violate constitutional protections because the device only gave police information that could have been obtained through visual surveillance, Lundsten wrote.

Even though the device followed Sveum's car to private places, an officer tracking Sveum could have seen when his car entered or exited a garage, Lundsten reasoned. Attaching the device was not a violation, he wrote, because Sveum's driveway is a public place.

"We discern no privacy interest protected by the Fourth Amendment that is invaded when police attach a device to the outside of a vehicle, as long as the information obtained is the same as could be gained by the use of other techniques that do not require a warrant," he wrote.

Although police obtained a warrant in this case, it wasn't needed, he added.

Larry Dupuis, legal director of the ACLU of Wisconsin, said using GPS to track someone's car goes beyond observing them in public and should require a warrant.

"The idea that you can go and attach anything you want to somebody else's property without any court supervision, that's wrong," he said. "Without a warrant, they can do this on anybody they want."

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's office, which argued in favor of the warrantless GPS tracking, praised the ruling but would not elaborate on its use in Wisconsin.

David Banaszynski, president of the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, said his department in the Milwaukee suburb of Shorewood does not use GPS. But other departments might use it to track drug dealers, burglars and stalkers, he said.

A state law already requires the Department of Corrections to track the state's most dangerous sex offenders using GPS. The author of that law, Rep. Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, said the decision shows "GPS tracking is an effective means of protecting public safety."
:shock:
It keeps getting worse and worse people. I don't know what you think but i think this is a violation of our 4th amendment.. but who cares about the constitution now days. :spew:

If anything we need to have gps's on the police cars so we know where our tax dollars are driving around (i'm kidding.. yet serious )
 

Radiate

Well-Known Member
lol good find, but what about the 99.999% of people who won't be able to do that...

EDIT: welcome to the site btw

Thanks.

Well, a little knowledge wouldn't hurt 99.999% of anyone anyways, but seeing as how most of us are busy, you can buy them too. Search google for anti-espionage devices. Gotta warn ya though, once you see the price tag you'll feel like cracking open that book on electrical engineering instead.
 

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
Thanks.

Well, a little knowledge wouldn't hurt 99.999% of anyone anyways, but seeing as how most of us are busy, you can buy them too. Search google for anti-espionage devices. Gotta warn ya though, once you see the price tag you'll feel like cracking open that book on electrical engineering instead.
Do you have one? you seem like you've known about these for awhile
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I say the citizens just slap them on any cop car/motorcycle etc etc etc and we just follow them around all day making sure they stay busy with our tax dollars paying for everything they have. How long do you think the police would let citizens do that? They would come up with some kind of legal loophole that only allows police to do it.
 

budsmoker87

New Member
yup, shitis repulsive huh

or how about all the new passports, with microchips installed in em


and some people say we don't have police states already LOL. FEMA CAMPS...comin 2 a city near u
 

medicineman

New Member
Yup, isn't paranoia grand. I think the cops have a lot more pertinent things to do than follow pot smokers around all day, at least I'd hope they do. They can track you by satelite if they really want to. You have to look at the big picture. Say they have a "terror" suspect and want to know his whereabouts, his friends etc, seems like this would be a good Idea. Don't get me wrong, I'm strictly against police abuses of the fourth amendment, and I also believe they should be required to get a warrant to do this. That would at least make them present some credible evidence that this was warranted. But going balistic because they are doing this is silly. Lets concentrate on things like unlawful search and seizure of our automobiles and homes. Seems to me that these are way more important than some silly GPS attachment.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Yup, isn't paranoia grand. I think the cops have a lot more pertinent things to do than follow pot smokers around all day, at least I'd hope they do. They can track you by satelite if they really want to. You have to look at the big picture. Say they have a "terror" suspect and want to know his whereabouts, his friends etc, seems like this would be a good Idea. Don't get me wrong, I'm strictly against police abuses of the fourth amendment, and I also believe they should be required to get a warrant to do this. That would at least make them present some credible evidence that this was warranted. But going balistic because they are doing this is silly. Lets concentrate on things like unlawful search and seizure of our automobiles and homes. Seems to me that these are way more important than some silly GPS attachment.
True, until it happens to you. lets just say by total coincidence that you visited the same places as some serial killer and the police arrested you. you go to court being totally innocent, but are found guilty because of the GPS evidence. What would you say then? Its not always about getting the right person who committed the crime, but sometimes just getting SOMEONE for it that appeases the populace.

Besides, unless they can prove it was YOU in the car at the time it could have been your brother, sister,wife, kid , uncle, neighbor who just borrowed the car. Maybe your car was stolen? who knows but they will sure try to pin it on you.

I think its wrong, and like you I also believe a warrant should be mandatory to behave in such a way. FWIW you can be tracked by satellite, but the police sure don't have that capability so we can forget about that. I just can't see some flat footed flookie down at the cop shop in control of a billion dollar satellite.

The vast majority of us will not be tracked, its just too expensive, but if they could do it they sure as hell would. Just like if a new law came out saying its ok to warrantlessly search houses for anything illegal and the black booted thugs drag you out of your home in the middle of the night so they can toss your house and go through your whole life looking for anything to arrest you with. letting them attach devices to others personal property without a warrant will only morph into more erosion of the peoples Liberty. We give a little and they take a lot.
 

Twistyman

Well-Known Member
I saw a news item about micro chips being stitched into clothing for inventory and purchase tracking..etc , but this can easily become a big brother scenario where there's scanners everywhere that can actually track your cloths movements.....

*Cue Twilight Zone music..
 

medicineman

New Member
True, until it happens to you. lets just say by total coincidence that you visited the same places as some serial killer and the police arrested you. you go to court being totally innocent, but are found guilty because of the GPS evidence. What would you say then? Its not always about getting the right person who committed the crime, but sometimes just getting SOMEONE for it that appeases the populace.

Besides, unless they can prove it was YOU in the car at the time it could have been your brother, sister,wife, kid , uncle, neighbor who just borrowed the car. Maybe your car was stolen? who knows but they will sure try to pin it on you.

I think its wrong, they need to get warrants for these kind of things.
Uhhh, in case you didn't notice, I also said they should get warrants. They should get warrants for any intrusive inspections into ones privacy, sort of like spelled out in the 4th amendment. They'd sure get bored with my movements as my truck sits in the driveway about 99% of the time, usually only going to the gym to repair me or to lowes to get home repair stuff.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
lots of items have small chips in them for ID, but you need to get close to the reader for it to work. Makes more sense to just chip the people themselves that way you can't have people saying, "it wasn't me, my sister borrowed my Chiffon shirt and she did it" . Maybe have everyone use the chip to pay for things, that would be a good way to keep track of people.
 

medicineman

New Member
lots of items have small chips in them for ID, but you need to get close to the reader for it to work. Makes more sense to just chip the people themselves that way you can't have people saying, "it wasn't me, my sister borrowed my Chiffon shirt and she did it" . Maybe have everyone use the chip to pay for things, that would be a good way to keep track of people.
Does the saying "the mark of the beast" have any meaning for you? 666!
 

Microdizzey

Well-Known Member
Microchips for everyone! :lol:

They're working on implantable chips for video gaming too. Either way, the chip will be like how cell phones are for us right now. Everyone will have one eventually. I'm sure a rise in new technologies that require micro chipping will change people minds about being tracked 24/7.
 

Radiate

Well-Known Member
Who cares if they put tracking chips in your clothing? It's called a hammer people. I hear magnets work wonders for screwing up all kinds of things technological too.....


Bottom line, if the Feds or police want to wage an electronic war on the people, (or for that matter, any kind of war) they will fail due to the ease and effectiveness of good ol' guerilla warfare. Put chips on me? I'll just smash them. GPS? I'll jam it. Hell, if they went so far as to take guns away, then I'll just keep a spud gun around for good measure.

Chill.
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
True, until it happens to you. lets just say by total coincidence that you visited the same places as some serial killer and the police arrested you. you go to court being totally innocent, but are found guilty because of the GPS evidence. What would you say then? Its not always about getting the right person who committed the crime, but sometimes just getting SOMEONE for it that appeases the populace.

Besides, unless they can prove it was YOU in the car at the time it could have been your brother, sister,wife, kid , uncle, neighbor who just borrowed the car. Maybe your car was stolen? who knows but they will sure try to pin it on you.

I think its wrong, and like you I also believe a warrant should be mandatory to behave in such a way. FWIW you can be tracked by satellite, but the police sure don't have that capability so we can forget about that. I just can't see some flat footed flookie down at the cop shop in control of a billion dollar satellite.

The vast majority of us will not be tracked, its just too expensive, but if they could do it they sure as hell would. Just like if a new law came out saying its ok to warrantlessly search houses for anything illegal and the black booted thugs drag you out of your home in the middle of the night so they can toss your house and go through your whole life looking for anything to arrest you with. letting them attach devices to others personal property without a warrant will only morph into more erosion of the peoples Liberty. We give a little and they take a lot.
Agreed. We've survived this long without GPS tracking, microchips, and national ID cards, there should be no reason why any of them MUST be implemented. Classic case of imbibing and punishing the entire herd over a few black sheep. It's this "collective"> the individual mentality that will be the death of liberty. Anyone that tells you differently is a liar. We're not Borg yet, although our government is trying to make it that way.

Also, with each new sacrifice of liberty in the name of "safety" or some other collective reasoning we hand over, the more TRUST that this knowlege will be used appropriately is handed over. Why ANYONE would believe that government is responsible or trustworthy enough NOT to abuse that power is beyond me. There are so many cases of government overreaching and abuse that believing they will "get it right" and not infringe on people's liberty is a bigger leap of faith than religion itself. Numbers don't lie, and statistics GUARANTEE plenty of abuse.

Assuming that law enforcement is "on your side" is a farce I learned long ago. I can already tell you, there will be a black market out there with lists of people's whereabouts FOR SALE as a result of this, and criminals (along with dirty cops) will be the first to exploit this ruling. For instance, if you knew a wealthy family was out of town with this technology, imagine the price you could get for the address to thieves. Mark my words, you WILL eventually hear a case exactly like that. Fuck this shit. Not a chance in hell I'll ever let a vehicle of mine be installed with something like that.
 

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
I say the citizens just slap them on any cop car/motorcycle etc etc etc and we just follow them around all day making sure they stay busy with our tax dollars paying for everything they have. How long do you think the police would let citizens do that? They would come up with some kind of legal loophole that only allows police to do it.
survielance of law enforcement is illegal already. get yourself arrested for terrorism real quick.
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
survielance of law enforcement is illegal already. get yourself arrested for terrorism real quick.
I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Police, and particularly highway patrol, spend far too much time putting the hurt on the average person by trying to keep everyone under 65mph and and looking over their shoulders instead of fighting actual crime. Then again, it's a lot easier squeezing money out of the people who have it than the people who don't isn't it?
 

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Police, and particularly highway patrol, spend far too much time putting the hurt on the average person by trying to keep everyone under 65mph and and looking over their shoulders instead of fighting actual crime. Then again, it's a lot easier squeezing money out of the people who have it than the people who don't isn't it?
im not agreing with LEO, i think its BS as well. i also think its BS that i can grow weed openly. doesnt mean im gonna put my girls in the front lawn defiantly.
 
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