Problem with PH and PPM

Hi guys,I am a newb to hydro.So my problem is PPM and Ph.
My tap water ph 7.2,ppm 200,filtered before use !
My res is 100l,the PPM after mix nutrients is 600 then I correct the ph to 5.8 by h2so4 98%
OMG,the PPM is 1100,what wrong to me ? Just make up a batch of water to see,not for growing but this is so hard to a newbie as me,hope u guys help me
p/s : im growing 2 wwbb in soil mix,also newbie,peace

dude get some PH down and stop putting so much shit in your water...

A gallon of the pH down can be had for less than $20

Yea and you barely use any pH down I use like 3 drops for a gallon

Yodaweed said:

dude get some PH down and stop putting so much shit in your water...

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i asked the local hydroponic owner and he gave me "acid phosphoric".I use Acid sulfuric and it raises the ppm of solution.Jusst the same as phosphoric

superstoner1 said:

A gallon of the pH down can be had for less than $20

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I don't have ph down liquid there

Yodaweed said:

Yea and you barely use any pH down I use like 3 drops for a gallon

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Just only a few drops that I don't remmember to bring ph from 7.2 to 5.8.Then PPM is fk crazy !!!!!

Yodaweed said:

Yea and you barely use any pH down I use like 3 drops for a gallon

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Just only a few drops that I don't remmember to bring ph from 7.2 to 5.8.Then PPM is fk crazy !!!!!

There's nothing wrong with using sulfuric acid as pH down other than increase sulfate levels. Sulfates, however, are usually seen as the "freedom variable" in hydroponic formulations and thus does not have a hard target. Just keep the ppm in check.

If you have nitric acid, however, use that instead. Then you will be providing nitrates when you use pH down instead of sulfates. Phosphoric acid is fine too really. It provides phosphates, but is not as strong of an acid as nitric acid.

Keep in mind that the ppm meter measures electric conductivity, which increases significantly in a more acidic solution (the hydronium ions raise electric conductivity a lot).

churchhaze said:

There's nothing wrong with using sulfuric acid as pH down other than increase sulfate levels. Sulfates, however, are usually seen as the "freedom variable" in hydroponic formulations and thus does not have a hard target. Just keep the ppm in check.

If you have nitric acid, however, use that instead. Then you will be providing nitrates when you use pH down instead of sulfates. Phosphoric acid is fine too really. It provides phosphates, but is not as strong of an acid as nitric acid.

Keep in mind that the ppm meter measures electric conductivity, which increases significantly in a more acidic solution (the hydronium ions raise electric conductivity a lot).

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I did a few researchs last nite and found that I was wrong,I always put the nutrients and the acid directly into the res without dissolved them first.
Maybe it turn to a "nutrients lock out" at final point,the ppm goes so fucking crazy.The basic PPM of my tap water is around 200,400ppm more of nutrients to be 600ppm,some drops of strong sulfuric then the ppm just only....1000 !
So I just wrong on mixing the nutes rite ? Thanks for ủr time and ur words

ph adjusting is done after you have everything in your res. and unless your plants are fully grown you should barely be using nutrients. 1000 ppm is gonna kill any young plant.

mrblu said:

ph adjusting is done after you have everything in your res. and unless your plants are fully grown you should barely be using nutrients. 1000 ppm is gonna kill any young plant.

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I mixed a new batch of water to check out the new way of mixing.Filled in the half way of volume by tap water[200ppm] (50litters), then dissolved nutrients in 5l bucket by distilled water,throw the nutrients into res and ppm comes at 600.Finally I put more tap water to bring it down to 500 and adjust the ph.Also dissolved Acid Sulfuric in water first,fix the ph by slowly adding more ph-ed water.From 6.7 to 5.8 and gave around 150-200ppm to the main solution ? Please fix me

Buy fucking proper ph down.

Gee when I add this janky shit they ppm go wild? Then perhaps... Don't add that.

Just saying Diluted or not nutes are nutes and diluting then first won't change the final ppm

Yeah definitely mix the nutrients up well before they go into your res. Shake the hell out of the nutrient bottle every time before using too. I even go so far as to put a small submersible pump into a few liters of water with a smaller bucket, use warm water, and let the pump mix it for awhile before I add that bucket to the full amount of water and then add any additives. Then I let that bucket sit with an airstone in it for about an hour before I pH adjust. Then I add it to the res the plants are in. I don't make a big to-do about it and some nutrient lines need less attention to being mixed than others... Like with CNS17, I mix the hell out of that stuff. With Pure Blend Pro, I'd probably be fine just stirring it for a few seconds with a stick or something.

But yeah, moral of the story is not mixing things well could have your EC/TDS/ppm and pH all over the place.

I was jack'n around with pool acid, vinergar and other bullshit....but even if GH's PH down is actually some cheaper shit repackaged I could give a shit...a bag of the dry stuff cost like $12 bucks and a scoop dissolved in a gallon last like forever....
anyway to the OP, just from your water params I'd guess you are in the midwest or Canada somewhere near a great lake...no?

BunnyK said:

I mixed a new batch of water to check out the new way of mixing.Filled in the half way of volume by tap water[200ppm] (50litters), then dissolved nutrients in 5l bucket by distilled water,throw the nutrients into res and ppm comes at 600.Finally I put more tap water to bring it down to 500 and adjust the ph.Also dissolved Acid Sulfuric in water first,fix the ph by slowly adding more ph-ed water.From 6.7 to 5.8 and gave around 150-200ppm to the main solution ? Please fix me

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Don't pH adjust until after you've mixed up your nutrients (and additives) as all of that will buffer the pH. If you are using decent hydroponic nutrients/additives, the pH should end up fairly close to where you need to be. Then adjust the pH down slowly if needed when you get to that point and things are well mixed - it's not a good practice to over-adjust the pH down and then have to bring it back up or vice versa. It's also not the best practice to do any mixing in a reservoir that is in use and has plants/medium in it.

Mix nutrients/additives well. Adjust pH, erring on the side of not enough rather than too much. Wait, preferably 30 min or longer while solution is being aerated. Finalize pH adjustment. Add to active reservoir.

Again, there's nothing improper about the sulfuric acid he's using. It's a strong acid (fully dissociates) and provides sulfates.

An improper pH down would be something like vinegar or lemon juice. Sure, sulfuric isn't ideal (unless you intend to raise sulfate level), but it's not wrong either.

The question is, does adding sulfuric acid raise the sulfate level too high? Probably not. Tons of people use sulfuric acid as pH down.

Don't worry that it adds ppm if your plants aren't suffering. Most of that "ppm" increase is actually just an increase in EC from being more acidic.

Think about why sulfuric acid is used in batteries. It's because of it's high electric conductivity.

legallyflying said:

Buy fucking proper ph down.

Gee when I add this janky shit they ppm go wild? Then perhaps... Don't add that.

Just saying Diluted or not nutes are nutes and diluting then first won't change the final ppm

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This is only true if your water's ppm is relatively low. (under 150ppm or so) If you have very hard water (500+ with high carbonate content), after mixing your nutrients, pH will likely be too high. What's worse, there's a chance the water will become foggy (precipitation of calcium phosphate)

Ionic, for example, makes a 1 part complete formula for "hard water" that substitutes some calcium nitrate in their mix for nitric acid.

If you have very hard water, nitric acid is the best way to fix it since it takes the CaCO3 (solid) and turns it into Ca(NO3)2 (aqueous) + CO2

SableZen said:

If you are using decent hydroponic nutrients/additives, the pH should end up fairly close to where you need to be.

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churchhaze said:

This is only true if your water's ppm is relatively low. (under 150ppm or so) If you have very hard water (500+ with high carbonate content), after mixing your nutrients, pH will likely be too high. What's worse, there's a chance the water will become foggy (precipitation of calcium phosphate)

Ionic, for example, makes a 1 part complete formula for "hard water" that substitutes some calcium nitrate in their mix for nitric acid.

If you have very hard water, nitric acid is the best way to fix it since it takes the CaCO3 (solid) and turns it into Ca(NO3)2 (aqueous) + CO2

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OP stated their tap pH is 7.2 - doesn't get much better than that for tap water and the addition of nutrients to it should have it pretty dang close to a good pH without much fuss. [And 200ppm is also pretty moderate (better than my tap).] But that pH and ppm doesn't qualify as hard water and I wouldn't run a "hard water" geared nutrient line with those stats and be happy I had great tap water.

But going back and reading the original post I just noticed something: OP you started by saying you were new to hydro and ended by saying you were growing in a soil mix... what exactly are you using? Are you measuring run-off?

legallyflying said:

Buy fucking proper ph down.

Gee when I add this janky shit they ppm go wild? Then perhaps... Don't add that.

Just saying Diluted or not nutes are nutes and diluting then first won't change the final ppm

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I chose to dilute the nute,don't need to buy proper ph down and spending time on here to get more knowledge,thanks