Prop 19 not about legalization but the protection of one mans business plan!

GanjaAL

Active Member
Sorry but thought this would offer a little more insight.

Again I feel this prop 19 was never about legalization but the protection of one businessmans, business plan.

Oakland approves massive grows; 275k per permit ... Rich Lee Wins One
The Oakland City Council isn't waiting for November to begin jumbling the legal rules. The Council's Public Safety Committee approved licensing wholesale pot growing Tuesday, 3-to-1.

KALW News reporter Ali Winston reports from that meeting that sponsors say the main reason for the proposal isn't revenue, it's safety (as their name implies): residential electrical fires more than doubled in the city in the past three years, and officials think there's a good connection between that increase and unregulated pot "grow houses."

That said, the committee proposes that applicants pay fees of over $275,000 per operation.

Approved by the committee and full City Council, four large growers would be permitted in the first year.

One grower said he embraced regulation but argued that the plan would force medium- and small-scale cultivators to close down, move, or "go back underground into the dark ages."

The ordinance doesn't yet set a limit on the size of the large cultivators

The plan also would permit Oakland's four licensed dispensaries to sell to retailers across California.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=67931

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...nclick_check=1

Last month rich lee purchased a 20 acre plot to build his new growing facilities ...
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
From CalNORML:

Tax Cannabis 2010 Initiative Headed for November Ballot

Posted January 28th, 2010 by canorml_admin
California voters will have the opportunity to vote for marijuana reform this November. The Tax and Regulate Cannabis Initiative or "TC2010" (www.taxcannabis2010.org), sponsored by Richard Lee of Oaksterdam University, has submitted more than enough signatures to qualify for the ballot.
The initiative would decriminalize marijuana at the state level, while giving local county and city governments the power to legalize, tax and regulate production and sales if they see fit. In particular, the initiative would make it legal for adults 21 and older to possess one ounce of marijuana in the privacy of their homes and to cultivate up to 25 square feet of garden space for personal use. It would prohibit possession on school grounds, use in public, smoking while minors are present, or providing to anyone under 21, as well as driving under the influence.
Current medical marijuana laws would not be affected, so patients could still grow and possess as much as necessary for their medical needs. Local governments (state or county) would be able to regulate, license, and authorize commercial cultivation, sale, and transport for adults over 21.
The initiative is a partial legalization measure since it would not legalize at the state level. It would remain a felony to sell, cultivate, transport, or possess marijuana for sale everywhere except where local governments decided otherwise. Thus it could become entirely legal to produce and sell a ton of marijuana in one city, while remaining a felony to transport it into the next city. Additional state legislation would be required to establish a uniform, state-regulated legalization regime in California, such as the legalization bill proposed by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano.
Fortunately, the initiative has a clause allowing the legislature to pass additional laws to further the purpose of the act. Should TC 2010 pass, Ammiano believes that the legislature will be eager to pass a bill like his own in order to establish statewide regulation and taxation of marijuana.

Passage of TC 2010 would be a historic boost to marijuana reform, marking the first-ever voter approval of legal adult use of marijuana By treating users as legal citizens, it would undercut the rationale for drug testing and other forms of discrimination against marijuana users. It would also greatly reduce the threat of arrests, since the odor of marijuana would no longer be a justification for police searches of one's home. Its ultimate impact on marijuana arrests is unclear, since this would depend on how many cities and counties legalized production and sales.
The initiative also has a clause that could halt abusive drug testing. It provides that "no person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against or denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act" - i.e. using marijuana - "provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected." This would appear to rule out random urine screening, which does not detect on-the-job impairment.
TC 2010 has a couple of controversial provisions that are of concern to California NORML. First, it would disallow marijuana smoking in "any space where minors are present" - a restriction unparalleled for any other drug, including tobacco, which is known to be far more harmful. Not only would this ban parents from smoking in the presence of their own children, but it could well leave them without any legal place to smoke, since the initiative also bans smoking in public or "a public place. By the same token, cops could cite pot smokers at any concert, dinner or event where kids under 21 were present. Violations would be punishable by the current $100 misdemeanor fine.
Secondly, TC 2010 would substantially increase existing penalties for adults giving marijuana to youths aged 18-21. TC 2010 would make it an offense punishable by $1,000 and six months for anyone 21 or over to give or share marijuana with someone aged 18-20, This offense is currently a minor misdemeanor punishable by a maximum $100 fine. So, a 21-year-old could be arrested for sharing a joint with his 20-year old friend, something that isn't presently the case.
Although the legislature would theoretically be able to change these provisions, it is highly doubtful they would do so given voters' approval of TC 2010. Should TC 2010 pass, California NORML would strongly support an initiative to repeal these provisions.
In the meantime, it's vital that TC 2010 do well in the upcoming election so as to keep the momentum of marijuana reform moving. For info, see http://www.taxcannabis.com.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
I'm only starting to study this bill, but I've been about legalization for forty years. My experiences in that time make me paranoid as hell.

What this bill will do is give each local jurisdiction the right to minimize or maybe eliminate legal cultivation in their area.

Maybe I don't get it, but I'd appreciate a post or PM from someone who has studied Prop 19 explaining how this might improve things.

We are MMJ patients and have read and been told this law won't affect us.

I wonder?
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
TL;DR version for the small to medium farmer. Richard Lee, his cohorts and anyone else willing to drink the Kool-Aid propose to repeat the sequence of events following alcohol prohibition. Reducing the field from potentially thousands of providers and growers to an oligarchic monopoly much like the alcohol and tobacco industries of today. This proposition does nothing to help those who've been fighting decades for freedom to live in communion with cannabis and especially nothing for those already incarcerated. Even CA NORML admits that this bill puts new restrictions and harsher penalties for possession than currently on the books. As MMJ patients this isn't supposed to affect us, but it's hard to see how it won't. History has proven that legislation like this has effects no one can possibly predict and often don't work out well for everyone except those backing the legislation. Proponents of the bill will have you believe that law enforcement and the future attorney general and other state officials will suddenly see the "light of reason" and begin to deal fairly and indiscriminately with us. 40 years of fighting the good fight should probably tell you how this story is likely to proceed if this law hits the books.
 

ford442

Well-Known Member
the supreme court of california has stated that each patient should be allowed to grow enough for their prescribed needs.. i don't think that they will reverse that decision.. how could legalization adversely effect any users?
 

gangaman

Active Member
Sorry but thought this would offer a little more insight.

Again I feel this prop 19 was never about legalization but the protection of one businessmans, business plan.

Oakland approves massive grows; 275k per permit ... Rich Lee Wins One
The Oakland City Council isn't waiting for November to begin jumbling the legal rules. The Council's Public Safety Committee approved licensing wholesale pot growing Tuesday, 3-to-1.

KALW News reporter Ali Winston reports from that meeting that sponsors say the main reason for the proposal isn't revenue, it's safety (as their name implies): residential electrical fires more than doubled in the city in the past three years, and officials think there's a good connection between that increase and unregulated pot "grow houses."

That said, the committee proposes that applicants pay fees of over $275,000 per operation.

Approved by the committee and full City Council, four large growers would be permitted in the first year.

One grower said he embraced regulation but argued that the plan would force medium- and small-scale cultivators to close down, move, or "go back underground into the dark ages."

The ordinance doesn't yet set a limit on the size of the large cultivators

The plan also would permit Oakland's four licensed dispensaries to sell to retailers across California.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=67931

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...nclick_check=1

Last month rich lee purchased a 20 acre plot to build his new growing facilities ...

This is all bad. Thanks for the up to date info sir.
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
I'm only starting to study this bill, but I've been about legalization for forty years. My experiences in that time make me paranoid as hell.

What this bill will do is give each local jurisdiction the right to minimize or maybe eliminate legal cultivation in their area.

Maybe I don't get it, but I'd appreciate a post or PM from someone who has studied Prop 19 explaining how this might improve things.

We are MMJ patients and have read and been told this law won't affect us.

I wonder?
It will effect you. It stands to reason it will cost you more money. If prop 19 passes a lot of people are going to skip getting a med card, a lot of those people have a caregiver, so what is actually going to happen is lower the legal supply on the market while increasing the black market supply.

But that's not really what their worried about. They are worried with the AMA statement to congress that this needs to be rescheduled, and the fact that agricultural states are starting to get behind this. The state knows without some price control tactics (fluctuating taxes) they'll be losing out to increased supply and competition.

Remember the state makes money on sales taxes. Sales tax profits go UP if the price of the good goes UP.
 

ford442

Well-Known Member
i am not sure how you see the legal market shrinking with 19 whiteflour..? even if there are less mmj shops there will be normal shops to compete with the black market.. i think that most patients would rather get their pot from legal channels if given the option... also, i disagree that all our ca representatives want is more tax money - they are beginning to see the situation more like we do and that is why so much is happening at once around the nation about pot - the truth is winning out and i think we will not rest until the whole thing is fair and just for everyone involved.. like i have said before - there will be compromises at first, the black market will not disappear overnight - but, when we propose legalization surely we are thinking along the same lines - we want to end the unfounded persecution of nearly 100 years..! we didn't end slavery just so that africans could buy soda and pay income taxes.. ;)
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
The legal supply on this market is determined by the number of medical cards in existence. Each patient is allowed 8oz. None of use are buying 8oz at a time, more like an oz. So for every caregiver that is 7oz extra per patient they can produce and supply to dispensaries.

For ever two patients that don't get a card because now they can grow their own for free or just get it from a friend that's is one pound off the legal market. Since the home growers can't posses but one ounce but the DEA estimates 12oz from 25sqft in a year, each harvest people will have to do something with that extra. They can't sell it to a dispensary because they aren't a cardholder so it will go to the black market instead.

Like I've been saying all along this is going to be on the backs of the dispensaries and medical users, that was confirmed today with the Oakland grow op stuff. One of the articles stated it would be caregivers and collections that are the "legal growers". So believe what you will but the numbers are there and slapping us in the face. California isn't going to hike the taxes up right now, that's of no beneifit. They'll hike them up with the price goes down becuase some other state has out competed them.

Once California get's these rediculous taxes on the books other states will follow suit. It's a downward spiral from there on out. These taxes are set up just like the tobacco settlement taxes and as we see those only keep getting worse. Luckily California is still one of the lowest in the nation on that, but they want to hike that up to $1.50 now.
 

x15

Well-Known Member
Section 3: Lawful Activities
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property.[/B]
Section 11303: Seizure
(a) Notwithstanding sections 11470 and 11479 of the Health and Safety Code or any other provision of law, no state or local law enforcement agency or official shall attempt to, threaten to, or in fact seize or destroy any cannabis plant, cannabis seeds or cannabis that is lawfully cultivated, processed, transported, possessed, possessed for sale, sold or used in compliance with this Act
Section 2: Findings, Intent and Purposes
B. Purposes...6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes...12. Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial, and research purposes...10. Stop arresting thousands of non-violent cannabis consumers,...
13. Permit California to fulfill the state’s obligations under the United States Constitution to enact laws concerning health, morals, public welfare and safety within the State.
sounds good. :)

reference:
http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/
 

x15

Well-Known Member
hello, tokinpodpilot :)

...Reducing the field from potentially thousands of providers and growers to an oligarchic monopoly much like the alcohol and tobacco industries of today...
even so, if i'm not mistaken an individual can make 100 gals of wine per year, 200 gals of wine per year, per household if there are 2 adults living there.

prop 19 an individual over 21 y.o. can grow mj legally.

as it is now only medical patients &/or their providers can grow mj legally in california.

:)
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
The point your missing is the supply is still going to be coming from the medical patients. How many of those patients are really using marijuana as 'medicine' and how many are using it as a formality to avoid prosecution? I think it's safe to assume there are more people using this as formality or it wouldn't be so easy to get.

Let's say we have 100,000 card holders now. That means here is a 50,000p unds that are accounted for and can be sold at dispensaries. In reality it's lower than that since not every patient is signing over to caregiver. As we reduce the card holders the accountable supply goes down.

I disagree that this will become a monopoly like alcohol or tobacco. Simply because those are commodities, alcohol is a little different but still the market and competition determines the price of the product. The price isn't controlled by artificially capping the supply. You need a surplus to reduce prices, and what this does is reduce the current surplus by allowing anyone to start going to the dispensaries. But at the same time dispensaries are going to receiving less supply, until eventually the current surplus is eliminated.
 

GanjaAL

Active Member
Sorry but people need to read this bill like everyone tells us people who are voting NO.

MMJ patients will be loosing our rights if this passes.

Proponents of California's Regulate Control and Tax Cannabis 2010 Initiative (Prop. 19) claim it will have no effect on California's medical marijuana laws, that it "explicitly upholds the rights of medical marijuana patients".

The language of the initiative says otherwise.

Yesterday, Russ Belville stated in a comment to his blog in The Huffington Post that "Prop 19 does nothing to change Prop 215 or your access to your current dispensary." Belville is NORML's Outreach Coordinator and Host of NORML Show Live.

Meanwhile, in an article that is causing quite a stir among proponents of ending marijuana prohibition, Dragonfly De La Luz lists 18 reasons "Pro-Pot Activists" oppose Prop. 19.

Regarding whether or not Prop. 19 will amend or supersede California's medical marijuana laws she had this to say:

While amendments were made ostensibly to prevent the initiative from affecting current medical marijuana law, a careful reading of the initiative reveals that this is not, in fact, the case. Certain medical marijuana laws are exempt from the prohibitions the initiative would enact, while others are glaringly absent.

Cultivation is one such law that is noticeably non-exempt.[17] In spite of the fact that the tax cannabis Web site says otherwise, the only medical marijuana exemptions that the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Initiative actually makes are with regard to possession, consumption and purchase limits, which only ensure that patients would still be allowed to buy medicine at dispensaries. The word “cultivate” is conspicuously absent. Whereas today a person with a doctor’s recommendation has the right to grow up to an unlimited number of plants, the initiative would drastically reduce that number to whatever can fit in a 5’x5’ footprint (around 3-6 plants—per property, not per person). This will force many patients to resort to buying instead of growing their own medicine, because of the inconvenience caused by producing multiple grows a year rather than growing a year’s supply of medicine at one time, as many patients currently do outdoors. And growing indoors—which typically requires special grow lights, an increase in hydro use, and a lot of time and attention—is a comparatively expensive endeavor.

The initiative would further impact medical marijuana patients by banning medicating in the privacy of their own homes if there are minors present, as well as in public (currently perfectly legal[18])—an invaluable liberty to those with painful diseases who would otherwise have to suffer until they got home to relieve their pain.

Finally, the medical marijuana laws that are exempted from this initiative apparently only apply to cities. For medical marijuana patients who live in an area that has county or local government jurisdiction, according to a strict reading of the initiative, medical marijuana laws are not exempt.[19]

The amendments she refers to were made after Comparing California cannabis/marijuana legalization initiatives was published 31 Jul 09 in Examiner.com. This article noted that the proponents of Proposition 19 had manged to get through 14 drafts without exempting medical marijuana patients from any of its provisions: not the unlimited taxes & licensing fees, not the possession & cultivation limits, not the prohibition on smoking in public or in sight of anyone under 18.

The amendments consisted of adding the phrase "except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9" to the end of Items 7 & 8 under Purposes.

The initiative mentions medical marijuana three times and omits mentioning it once.

The Mentions

The three mentions are Items 6, 7, and 8 in Section 2, B. Purposes.

6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.

The courts will determine that this means Prop. 19 is intended to amend and supersede California's medical marijuana laws; Proposition 215 (H&S 11362.5) and SB 420 (H&S 11362.7-H&S 11362.9).

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

The first thing to note about these sections is that they are specific to cities. Nowhere does the word "county" appear.

In Item 7, "city" is specified 3 times, every way they know how: "if a city", "that city's limits", "the city's citizens". The rule of thumb is if you say something three times you mean exactly what you said.

This item exempts medical marijuana patients only in cities, and only with regard to how much they may possess and consume. It makes it legal to ban medical marijuana dispensaries, collectives, and delivery services. Unless the city enacts a sin tax, any buying and selling will be illegal.

The Omission

Section C, Intents, has two items.

Item 1 is a list of the laws Prop. 19 is "intended to limit the application and enforcement of". The inclusion of the phrase "including but not limited to the following, whether now existing or adopted in the future" opens the door for the argument to be made that Prop. 19 may (and most likely will) be interpreted to "limit" the "application and enforcement" of the now existing medical marijuana laws.

This interpretation is reinforced by Item 2 under this section, a list of state laws Prop. 19 "is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of".

Note that Item 2 is not open-ended. There is no "including but not limited to" modifier for this Item.

Conspicuously absent from either list are California's medical marijuana laws: Health & Safety Code Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7-11362.9.

These mentions and omissions occur in the 'preamble' of the initiative, titled Findings, Intent and Purposes. Concerns have been expressed regarding how legally binding these sections are and that nowhere in the sections to be added to California's legal code is there any mention of medical marijuana or any exemption for medical marijuana patients and providers.

Exploiting pain and suffering

Nowhere does the initiative exempt medical marijuana cultivators or distributors from the tax.

Proponents of Prop. 19 often argue that everything is taxed. This is not true. Illinois is the only state that taxes prescription pharmaceuticals, and that tax is 1%.

Proponents of Prop. 19 claim they want to tax and regulate marijuana like alcohol. It costs $450 to license a pharmacy in California and between $340-$580 to license a retail alcohol establishment. Long Beach claims 85 medical marijuana dispensaries and charges $14,742 for a license. Oakland has a limit of 4 dispensaries and charges them $30,000 for a license.

Proponents of Prop. 19 argue that it is illegal to consume alcohol in sight of anyone under 21 or in public. California is littered with sidewalk cafes and pizza parlors that serve beer, wine, and mixed drinks in public and in the sight of children.

To date the cities of Oakland (the home or Proposition 19), Sacramento (The State Capital), Long Beach, and Berkeley have announced proposals to tax medical marijuana in order to keep their medical marijuana dispensaries from being shut down should Proposition 19 pass.

The most liberal of these is Berkeley, where medical marijuana patients will pay 7.5% less tax than recreational users, and it will only cost them 2.5% more than the 9.75% in sales tax they're already paying.

Sacramento is proposing a sin tax of between 5% and 10% for recreational users and 2% to 4% for the sick and dying. "We're trying to get ahead of the process," said councilmember Sandy Sheedy, who proposed the ordinance.

Medical marijuana patients use considerably more than recreational users. Irv Rosenfeld receives 11 ounces per month from the federal government. Maine recently determined that it's medical marijuana patients would use 5 ounces per month, on average. The tax on medicine, besides being ethically inconsistent, falls most heavily on the sickest, who tend to be the poorest.

At $400 per ounce, a medical marijuana patient who needs 3 ounces a month will pay $138.60 tax per month in Oakland.

Meanwhile, no city or county in California has reversed itself on a ban or moratorium on medical marijuana dispensaries since Oakland (home of Prop. 19) passed Measure F, the first medical marijuana tax.

Meanwhile, several cases are working through the courts challenging medical marijuana bans, moratoriums, and regulations which are de facto bans, as discriminatory and in violation of California's medical marijuana laws. Passage of Prop 19 will remove any legal basis for these cases.

Taking the 'medical' out of 'marijuana'

Prop. 19 adds five sections to California's Health & Safety Code, §§ 11300-11304.

§11300 is titled Personal Regulation and Controls. Item a) begins with the phrase "Notwithstanding any other provision of law".

This section makes possession of more than an ounce or by anyone under 21 illegal. It also limits non-licensed cultivation to 25 square feet per residence or parcel, not per person.

If the authors of Prop. 19 wanted to protect medical marijuana patients, why did they say "notwithstanding any other provision of law"?

§11301 is titled Commercial Regulations and Controls. It begins with the phrase "Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law". It prohibits sales to anyone under 21. Nowhere in this section is there any exemption for medical marijuana patients, cultivators, or distributors.

In addition to allowing cities and counties to ban commercial cultivation and sales (including medical marijuana collectives and dispensaries) it states the following:

(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;

This means that the taxes and fees paid by the licensed commercial cultivators and distributors will be used to eliminate the competition. For example, Oakland (the home of Prop. 19) is in the process of licensing four cultivators to supply the approximately 6,000 pounds per year sold by the four licensed dispensaries. Bay Citizen put it this way:

Growing marijuana can be lucrative, but the city’s proposed new rules would eliminate small-timers. It would cost $5,000 just to apply for a cultivation permit, and a regulatory fee of $211,000 for the lucky winners. If one has the cash, it’s a small price to pay for the right to produce a crop with an estimated retail value of $7 million. The fee pays for regulating cultivation in Oakland, which will include enforcement against the guys with grow lights in their garages and backyard sheds.

The New York times reports that the leading contender for one of these cultivation permits is Jeff Wilcox, a member of the Proposition 19 steering committee. "Mr. Wilcox estimated that AgraMed would cost $20 million to develop."

Reasonable Accommodation

Current California medical marijuana law does not prohibit smoking in public. It is not currently illegal for medical marijuana patients to smoke in public or in sight of anyone under 18:

11362.79. Nothing in this article shall authorize a qualified patient or person with an identification card to engage in the smoking of medical marijuana under any of the following circumstances:

(a) In any place where smoking is prohibited by law.
(b) In or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, recreation center, or
youth center, unless the medical use occurs within a residence.
(c) On a schoolbus.
(d) While in a motor vehicle that is being operated.
(e) While operating a boat.

While debating Keith Kimber on Time4Hemp Chris Conrad stated Prop. 19 would have to win by a wider margin than Prop. 215 in order to supersede it. He reiterated this in an email that was passed around Facebook.

Even if it did conflict with or amend the medical marijuana laws, which it repeatedly does not do, Prop 19 would still have to pass by more than 56% to have any effect on Prop 215, which is highly unlikely.

Conrad is in error. The California Initiative Guide states the following:

If the provisions of two or more measures approved at the same election conflict, those of the measure receiving the highest affirmative vote shall prevail (Cal. Const., art. II, Section 10(b)).

This is not a case of two or more measures in the same election.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
hello, tokinpodpilot :)



even so, if i'm not mistaken an individual can make 100 gals of wine per year, 200 gals of wine per year, per household if there are 2 adults living there.

prop 19 an individual over 21 y.o. can grow mj legally.

as it is now only medical patients &/or their providers can grow mj legally in california.

:)
Some of us are thinking beyond our own personal needs and trying to protect the cannabis community at large, not to mention exonerate friends and family who've been wronged by this prohibition. This bill does exactly the opposite of that.

http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-pro-pot-activists-oppose-2010-tax.html
 

Indi

New Member
http://legalizemarijuana.tumblr.com/ This is a good read about Prop 19. One of the states in our country has a chance to legalize it. Even if the this Prop is not perfect, don't pass on the chance. If Cali moves forward with this, it only gets better for Cali and the rest of the country from here. So lets say there are some rules that we don't like, then we fight them later. This is a huge battle to win, the cities that choose not to allow cultivation is just a small battle that we can fight and win later. This sets the stage for all of us, not just Cali.
 

ford442

Well-Known Member
http://legalizemarijuana.tumblr.com/ This is a good read about Prop 19. One of the states in our country has a chance to legalize it. Even if the this Prop is not perfect, don't pass on the chance. If Cali moves forward with this, it only gets better for Cali and the rest of the country from here. So lets say there are some rules that we don't like, then we fight them later. This is a huge battle to win, the cities that choose not to allow cultivation is just a small battle that we can fight and win later. This sets the stage for all of us, not just Cali.
right on! thank you - i do not see any big downside to prop 19..

for those still on the side of legalization here are more links on the subject of prop 19 -

Marc Emery -
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/06/05/Why-You-Should-Vote-YES-California-Control-Tax-Cannabis-Initiative

Tom Ammiano -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/01/california-assemblyman-explains-why-he-is-voting-yes-on-prop-19/

Huffington Post -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/14/i-gots-mine-dispensary-owners-against-marijuana-legalization/

Russ Belville -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/19/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis/

More myth debunking -
http://prop19myths.blogspot.com/
 
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