Property manager vs. sole proprietor RE:electrical work

Hey RIU,

I'm planning to move to a new home soon, and need to know a few things about rentals.

My understanding is that in California, 24 hours notice is required for any kind of inspection or showing -- basically anything that involves one of 'their' people entering my home.

I plan to use a spare bedroom for my garden, but need to make sure there's no reason for them to enter. Aside from some kind of catastrophe, I can only think of showings being the only reason to enter these bedrooms. Are there any other things I should consider when choosing a room?

How much work am I 'allowed' to do in a rental, altering the electrical setup and getting some 240v into a bedroom?

This brings me to my 'main' question:
Is dealing with an individual owner different than a property management group? I could see the individuals being more nosy and hands-on when it comes to repairs and such. My current home employs a couple maintenance guys all shepherded by one leader, and they practically never need to come in my home. Aside from things I asked for help, I believe they've had to come in one time in all of 2011, and I'd like to make sure I'm not signing up for unwelcome home 'invasions' by renting straight from the owner.

And I'm sure there's a ton of stuff to consider that I've totally ignored, so please help me fill in the gaps with anything you feel could be relevant and helpful

infrared said:

Hey RIU,

I'm planning to move to a new home soon, and need to know a few things about rentals.

My understanding is that in California, 24 hours notice is required for any kind of inspection or showing -- basically anything that involves one of 'their' people entering my home.

I plan to use a spare bedroom for my garden, but need to make sure there's no reason for them to enter. Aside from some kind of catastrophe, I can only think of showings being the only reason to enter these bedrooms. Are there any other things I should consider when choosing a room?

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In Cali most rental companies will inspect the property once a year. Usually they'll do it by sending in a maintenance man to "fix" something (smoke alarm, water heater, whatever). They'll report anything unusual to the property management company. So just be prepared for that.

How much work am I 'allowed' to do in a rental, altering the electrical setup and getting some 240v into a bedroom?

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I wouldn't tell the renter you're doing it, I'd just do it. If you lose deposit money, so be it.

This brings me to my 'main' question:
Is dealing with an individual owner different than a property management group? I could see the individuals being more nosy and hands-on when it comes to repairs and such.

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Usually the opposite actually. Of course it depends on the individual property owner. My experience with renting from a person rather than a company they'll leave you alone as long as you pay your rent on time and don't ask them to fix anything. But there are nosy landlords out there as well. With a property management group you're almost guaranteed they'll check you out at least once a year, some every 6 months.

Owner > manager IMO.

i agree w/ dan. be prepared to get an inspection once or twice a year. More often if you're gonna be on section 8 (doubt it just letting you know they can inspect sec 8 properties more frequently)

Growing in a rental makes me nervous just for the fact you're in close quarters with people you don't want to let find out what you're doing so imo keep it simple in the event you need to move things quickly. you're gonna HAVE TO get a carbon filter as the smell will be overbearing to your neighbors as well as the inside of your home (ie. even if you move everything for them to come inside they will still smell the residual odors if you dont use a carbon scrubber).

you'll get prior warning to them entering so you should have a way to move everything out on a moments notice.

so my advice is smaller plants w/ SOG or something. you don't want big tall monsters in the event you have to actually try and get em out of the house without anyone noticing (ie. small plants in 1-2gal pots can go in boxes and be carried out like nothing..5gal plants cannot).

thats pretty much my advice. as far as owner or property manager id say go owner. they wont want to come in an inspect if things are going smoothly. property managers are supposed to be nosy as its their jobs where as an owner is gonna be happy if you pay up on time everytime.

if you change the wiring and don't want to lose out on your security deposit be prepared to change it back to the way it was before you moved in once you're getting ready to move out. then its a win-win situation. i wouldnt ask about changing it though as it may throw up red flags to the owner (ie. not many people ask to change something electrical when they move in)

just rent from the owner and be safe/smart and you'll be fine.

Great feedback, guys! Just as I was hoping, you brought up some things I hadn't even considered.

I'm surprised to learn that individual owners may present less of a hassle, yet it makes total sense given the arguments you've both laid out. I can't afford to buy a house ATM, so I'll look for the lesser of the two evils when it comes to renting.

Thanks for verifying my own (as yet unwritten) stance on asking about modifying the wiring. I'm very much a act-and-apologize guy, rather than asking for permission

A couple new questions

-for these 'fix it' maintenance visits, they're usually not going through all the rooms, right? In other words, if I put the garden in a room where there's nothing essential for the house, it's highly unlikely they'd (need to) go in there?
-Dan, does the same level of intrusion also apply to the "every 6 months" property manager checkup I'm "almost guaranteed"?

-TMWTP, I'm not section 8, so I won't be inviting that 'extra' attention. You emphasized easy-moving to the extent that you almost expect it could happen. I was hoping that by employing proper ventilation techniques and putting the garden in an 'unimportant' area, I'd avoid most problems even if they do come to inspect. Is the inspection you mentioned going to enter all of the bedrooms and stuff, or would that mostly focus on appliances, plumbing and stuff like that?

-Will it be obvious if they look at the fuse box that I've run extra power into the garden room?

-Scrubber size aside, any other considerations I might need to look into before moving and setting everything up?

The last place I rented had a property manager. the property manager seemed cool but the owner was still nosy! The owner wanted to come "fix" the smoke alarms, I told her I tested them and they work fine. She said they need to come replace the batteries and check the units her self. This was only in the first two months. Then at month 6 (middle of summer) the A/C went out. The owner hired a repair man to come fix it. he went on the roof and replaced a little part and it worked fine, the owner showed up when the repair man was there and said she wanted to come in and check the thermostat to see if it caused the problem. I told her no I'm sick right now, you can come back tomorrow. sure enough she was there the next day at the exactly 24 hours later with a new thermostat and someone to put it in. After the first couple checks the owner lightened up and never came back. At the 2 year mark the property manager asked to do a walk through, she walked into the living room and said "nice and clean here, the rest of the place must be as well! have a good day"! I watched a show called hoarders, the owner lived really far away and never came by because the bills were paid. He finally came by because the city and neighbors called about garbage everywhere.
Easy way to get 220 in a rental is do your laundry at a laundry mat and tap into the dryer outlet. there is minimal damage done to the house and you don't have to make room in the panel. My last rental had a gas hook up for the dryer, so I got a gas dryer. we just bought a house, so we ran gas lines for the dryer so I could steal the dryer circuit again!

IMO it's the luck of the draw... no way to really tell until you are in... They could act really nice getting you in, and then be totally different!
Good luck with your hunt!

infrared said:

Great feedback, guys! Just as I was hoping, you brought up some things I hadn't even considered.

I'm surprised to learn that individual owners may present less of a hassle, yet it makes total sense given the arguments you've both laid out. I can't afford to buy a house ATM, so I'll look for the lesser of the two evils when it comes to renting.

Thanks for verifying my own (as yet unwritten) stance on asking about modifying the wiring. I'm very much a act-and-apologize guy, rather than asking for permission

A couple new questions

-for these 'fix it' maintenance visits, they're usually not going through all the rooms, right? In other words, if I put the garden in a room where there's nothing essential for the house, it's highly unlikely they'd (need to) go in there?
-Dan, does the same level of intrusion also apply to the "every 6 months" property manager checkup I'm "almost guaranteed"?

-TMWTP, I'm not section 8, so I won't be inviting that 'extra' attention. You emphasized easy-moving to the extent that you almost expect it could happen. I was hoping that by employing proper ventilation techniques and putting the garden in an 'unimportant' area, I'd avoid most problems even if they do come to inspect. Is the inspection you mentioned going to enter all of the bedrooms and stuff, or would that mostly focus on appliances, plumbing and stuff like that?

-Will it be obvious if they look at the fuse box that I've run extra power into the garden room?

-Scrubber size aside, any other considerations I might need to look into before moving and setting everything up?

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most inspections require them to walk through the entire property (yes even your grow room).

imo (its a lot of work but i'd do it) id pack up and move out my grow for the inspection (discreetly) and then move it back in once its over. ive done this myself many times. thats why i say make your setup simple and easy to put up and take down. grow lots of small plants rather than a few big monsters that you'd have a hard time moving if need be.

i wouldnt be bold enough to have my grow going during an inspection. too risky. besides you can immediately get kicked out or they could call the cops (even if you're mmj legal in your state).

lots of places these days say "NO mmj grows" in the rental section. so beware.

my advice is to exercise caution even to the point of coming across as paranoid. you don't want to get kicked out and screwed w/ legal troubles.


what you should do is move in and don't do anything right away and try to get a feel for the owner/property manager. see how it goes. some are laid back some are dicks...its the luck of the draw really.

i wouldnt ask for permission from the owner/property manager (if you're mmj legal that is) as that could open you up to theft.

also you should install hidden cameras so you'll know if your property manager/owner is entering your place and going through your crap while you're away (happens all the time)

who the fuck rents a place and dosnt change locks like rite away ??? i mean thats legal rite to change the locks lol ? they cant say shit cuz there not legally supposed to come around when your not in there any ways so lol and who the fuck cant move a 5 gallon pot ? it seeems easier to move 10 5 gallon potted plants then say 50 1 gallon potted plants or just as easy !!!!!!!

MediMaryUser said:

who the fuck rents a place and dosnt change locks like rite away ??? i mean thats legal rite to change the locks lol ?

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No, it's not legal, but you should do it anyways at least on the door to your grow.

MediMaryUser said:

who the fuck rents a place and dosnt change locks like rite away ??? i mean thats legal rite to change the locks lol ? they cant say shit cuz there not legally supposed to come around when your not in there any ways so lol and who the fuck cant move a 5 gallon pot ? it seeems easier to move 10 5 gallon potted plants then say 50 1 gallon potted plants or just as easy !!!!!!!

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You know, you're right. I could see even up to like a 7 gallon fitting perfectly in one of those Uhaul 'wardrobe' boxes. Probably pros and cons to both lines of thinking, but I'd go with the bigger pots using this to justify my decision.

Dan Kone said:

No, it's not legal, but you should do it anyways at least on the door to your grow.

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I was thinking the same thing until I read an article or post somewhere about the fact that an externally locked door can be even more suspicious. For house guests, it's the kind of thing where maybe you could convince them it's a maintenance closet, but only if it's a rental. Otherwise, why is one interior door keyed?

So with regard to inspections and other intrusions, even a keyed door being locked should be enough to keep them from doing damage to the door. And you can expect to have to explain that sooner rather than later.

Potentially, using any kind of a lock presents a threat with regard to increased suspicion from landlords. So the next thing we look to eliminate is a conspicuous lock, and this can be accomplished with a car alarm rigged up to a locking device. So basically it's a remote-locked garden, even if it does have to be rapidly disassembled and transported (where the fuck do you take an entire garden if you get 'in trouble' lol)

With some of the same concerns for intrusion as mentioned above,

is it 'possible' to do a greenhouse grow in a leased home's backyard?

infrared said:

I was thinking the same thing until I read an article or post somewhere about the fact that an externally locked door can be even more suspicious.

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Absolutely it is. But if what's behind the door is a massive grow op, it's better for a landlord to be suspicious than have those suspicions confirmed with an unlocked door.

For house guests, it's the kind of thing where maybe you could convince them it's a maintenance closet, but only if it's a rental. Otherwise, why is one interior door keyed?

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No hablo house guest. My girlfriend doesn't even no where I live. If I'm too fucked up to drive so she's dropping me off, I have her drop me off a mile away so she thinks I live somewhere else. The only people who've actually physically seen my grows are blood relatives only. No exceptions. It's the price I pay for being me.

So with regard to inspections and other intrusions, even a keyed door being locked should be enough to keep them from doing damage to the door. And you can expect to have to explain that sooner rather than later.

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A new lock will give you time, nothing more. For me, it's not that big of an issue. I'm an art school grad. You'd be surprised how quickly you can turn a grow room into a dark room or painting studio and make it look convincing. Why is it locked? Because I don't want anyone ruining my art! It works for me.

infrared said:

is it 'possible' to do a greenhouse grow in a leased home's backyard?

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No. Plants get too big, impossible to move if there is an inspection. Not worth the risk.

If you've lived somewhere more than a year and no the landlords don't look in the yard, then go for it. But you don't want to just move somewhere and start doing OD right off the bat.

sucks i think im going to take the risk and plant some seeds in the ground whatever rental i end up in ! lol

Dan Kone said:

Absolutely it is. But if what's behind the door is a massive grow op, it's better for a landlord to be suspicious than have those suspicions confirmed with an unlocked door.



No hablo house guest. My girlfriend doesn't even no where I live. If I'm too fucked up to drive so she's dropping me off, I have her drop me off a mile away so she thinks I live somewhere else. The only people who've actually physically seen my grows are blood relatives only. No exceptions. It's the price I pay for being me.



A new lock will give you time, nothing more. For me, it's not that big of an issue. I'm an art school grad. You'd be surprised how quickly you can turn a grow room into a dark room or painting studio and make it look convincing. Why is it locked? Because I don't want anyone ruining my art! It works for me.

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i agree once again. no one has seen my grow op nor do i tell anyone i grow. a few blood relatives know (mom/dad/grandma ) but thats it and no one has actually BEEN TO or know WHERE my grow op is. its definitely not worth the risk.

i know how you feel about the GF thing. ive been with mine for 3 years and she still doesnt know. however since i cant grow with my 1700w setup anymore (gotta switch to 150w-250w to go stealth) soon as i complete this harvest ill tell her what i was doing all these years that made me so suspiciously weird at times. it cant hurt. lol

Dan Kone said:

No. Plants get too big, impossible to move if there is an inspection. Not worth the risk.

If you've lived somewhere more than a year and no the landlords don't look in the yard, then go for it. But you don't want to just move somewhere and start doing OD right off the bat.

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my thoughts exactly. someone on the other page said they'd rather move a handful of plants in 5 gal pots versus a bunch in 1 gal pots and i still disagree. little plants are better. easier to move and hide. wardrobe boxes get expensive especially if you need 10 of them (besides having 10 wardrobe boxes look suspicious already as almost no one has that many clothes anyway. lol

I think a greenhouse grow would be ridiculously obvious unless you had a very big green house and could hide the mj plants in between tons of other plants so it looks like theres no mj growing at all. chances are though you arent talking about a huge greenhouse but rather a small one just intended for mj.




check it out OP:
imo if youre just gonna grow for personal purposes then my advice is to go stealth. im going from a big near 2000w setup to stealth as the people i rent from were cool w/ my mj growing however have become increasingly paranoid and wish for me to stop...

so i gotta grow at my own home so stealth is my only option as i live with roommates who wouldn't approve.

so build a stealth cab. or better yet take an existing piece of furniture and hollow it up...make yourself a nice little setup with intake/exhaust...add a carbon filter and you're good to go. better yet get someone with a lock on it (cam lock) like filing cabinets have on them. there are some wood furniture pieces that come w/ those types of locks. my advice is use that. then you can hide it from everyone without being paranoid no matter what happens (ie. if the owner/property manager needs to come in)

if this is a commercial grow then you're SOL as they WILL find out you're growing. commercial grows are very hard to hide especially when you rent and have too many factors that can fuk u over. you'd be better off posting an ad on a site like budtrader looking for a mmj friendly rental but then again you gotta trust that person to not jack you while youre not home so security will be important!

best of luck.

Dan Kone said:

Absolutely it is. But if what's behind the door is a massive grow op, it's better for a landlord to be suspicious than have those suspicions confirmed with an unlocked door.

No hablo house guest. My girlfriend doesn't even no where I live. If I'm too fucked up to drive so she's dropping me off, I have her drop me off a mile away so she thinks I live somewhere else. The only people who've actually physically seen my grows are blood relatives only. No exceptions. It's the price I pay for being me.

A new lock will give you time, nothing more. For me, it's not that big of an issue. I'm an art school grad. You'd be surprised how quickly you can turn a grow room into a dark room or painting studio and make it look convincing. Why is it locked? Because I don't want anyone ruining my art! It works for me.

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I don't have house guests anymore, either. But having a contingency plan and an explanation for why the room's being used/locked -- that's quite a helpful addition, thanks.

Dan Kone said:

No. Plants get too big, impossible to move if there is an inspection. Not worth the risk.

If you've lived somewhere more than a year and no the landlords don't look in the yard, then go for it. But you don't want to just move somewhere and start doing OD right off the bat.

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Also helpful. I think if I had a place where a carport would make sense, I could do a doublejj-style setup, but even that could prove tricky with inspections, landscapers, etc.

themanwiththeplan said:

my thoughts exactly. someone on the other page said they'd rather move a handful of plants in 5 gal pots versus a bunch in 1 gal pots and i still disagree. little plants are better. easier to move and hide. wardrobe boxes get expensive especially if you need 10 of them (besides having 10 wardrobe boxes look suspicious already as almost no one has that many clothes anyway. lol

I think a greenhouse grow would be ridiculously obvious unless you had a very big green house and could hide the mj plants in between tons of other plants so it looks like theres no mj growing at all. chances are though you arent talking about a huge greenhouse but rather a small one just intended for mj.




check it out OP:
imo if youre just gonna grow for personal purposes then my advice is to go stealth. im going from a big near 2000w setup to stealth as the people i rent from were cool w/ my mj growing however have become increasingly paranoid and wish for me to stop...

so i gotta grow at my own home so stealth is my only option as i live with roommates who wouldn't approve.

so build a stealth cab. or better yet take an existing piece of furniture and hollow it up...make yourself a nice little setup with intake/exhaust...add a carbon filter and you're good to go. better yet get someone with a lock on it (cam lock) like filing cabinets have on them. there are some wood furniture pieces that come w/ those types of locks. my advice is use that. then you can hide it from everyone without being paranoid no matter what happens (ie. if the owner/property manager needs to come in)

if this is a commercial grow then you're SOL as they WILL find out you're growing. commercial grows are very hard to hide especially when you rent and have too many factors that can fuk u over. you'd be better off posting an ad on a site like budtrader looking for a mmj friendly rental but then again you gotta trust that person to not jack you while youre not home so security will be important!

best of luck.

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Good counterargument, but it's not like you can really keep plants in a box long enough to make having them around a real concern, eh? It's not like anyone other than a pot grower looks at a bunch of wardrobe boxes and thinks there's gotta be plants in there (unless, of course, they actually stink).

I can't help but find it funny that someone would be on here asking such a basic question AND be planning a commercial grow op. My intention is to maximize the efficiency of the process and quality of my medicine, but I appreciate your feedback all the same. I'm definitely going to look into a cam lock or some such other security for my garden moving forward.

I am a landlord and I'm familiar with what you can and can't do. Many of the new contracts now contain no illegal activity clauses. The contracts also include no alteration to the property, that includes lock sets. Best advice, don't take free legal advice, evictions and illegal activity is reported and easy for landlords to find out about any negative reports. You may give up a deposit, but then you also take the chance of being drug into small claims court to recover any other costs of evictions and damage to the property. Best way to avoid trouble is; pay the rent on time, keep the yard up, don't let any crap accumulate on the property, neighbors pay attention and will call the owner if your renting from an owner that used to live in the house. Just common sense stuff. An owner has the right to enter the property after legal notice just about anytime they want to. There are lots of laws that require landlords to be responsible for, therefore there are lots of reason to enter the house or be on the property, one of them is the smoke/carbon monoxide monitors. Basically, pay the rent, be respectful and just do the right thing and 99% of owners have better things to do with their time than go and bother a tenant. Hope that helps.

TigerHwy said:

I am a landlord and I'm familiar with what you can and can't do. Many of the new contracts now contain no illegal activity clauses. The contracts also include no alteration to the property, that includes lock sets. Best advice, don't take free legal advice, evictions and illegal activity is reported and easy for landlords to find out about any negative reports. You may give up a deposit, but then you also take the chance of being drug into small claims court to recover any other costs of evictions and damage to the property. Best way to avoid trouble is; pay the rent on time, keep the yard up, don't let any crap accumulate on the property, neighbors pay attention and will call the owner if your renting from an owner that used to live in the house. Just common sense stuff. An owner has the right to enter the property after legal notice just about anytime they want to. There are lots of laws that require landlords to be responsible for, therefore there are lots of reason to enter the house or be on the property, one of them is the smoke/carbon monoxide monitors. Basically, pay the rent, be respectful and just do the right thing and 99% of owners have better things to do with their time than go and bother a tenant. Hope that helps.

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So basically quit growing weed? lol. Thx for the advice.

infrared said:

I don't have house guests anymore, either. But having a contingency plan and an explanation for why the room's being used/locked -- that's quite a helpful addition, thanks.




Also helpful. I think if I had a place where a carport would make sense, I could do a doublejj-style setup, but even that could prove tricky with inspections, landscapers, etc.




Good counterargument, but it's not like you can really keep plants in a box long enough to make having them around a real concern, eh? It's not like anyone other than a pot grower looks at a bunch of wardrobe boxes and thinks there's gotta be plants in there (unless, of course, they actually stink).

I can't help but find it funny that someone would be on here asking such a basic question AND be planning a commercial grow op. My intention is to maximize the efficiency of the process and quality of my medicine, but I appreciate your feedback all the same. I'm definitely going to look into a cam lock or some such other security for my garden moving forward.

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oh ok. well if its personal you should just go the stealth cab route. you dont have to build a small one of just cfls...its very possible to make a big stealth cab and use an HPS (based on the size you probably wouldnt wanna go bigger than 400-600w hps). that way you can install a carbon filter and will eliminate the need to move things or worry about an inspection all together. at WORST you'd probably have to unplug everything (if your stealth setup produces a lot of buzz/hum) during the inspection but thats it.

then you wont have to worry about the landlord/property manager coming in during emergency situations or during scheduled walkthrough's.

themanwiththeplan said:

oh ok. well if its personal you should just go the stealth cab route. you dont have to build a small one of just cfls...its very possible to make a big stealth cab and use an HPS (based on the size you probably wouldnt wanna go bigger than 400-600w hps). that way you can install a carbon filter and will eliminate the need to move things or worry about an inspection all together. at WORST you'd probably have to unplug everything (if your stealth setup produces a lot of buzz/hum) during the inspection but thats it.

then you wont have to worry about the landlord/property manager coming in during emergency situations or during scheduled walkthrough's.

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Ok, now I get why you're pushing the stealth angle. Alas, I need more medicine (for edibles, etc) for my condition than I can fit into a small cabinet, so . . .

just an open request to anyone else out there with more helpful tidbits:

what steps can you take to keep your garden safe(st) inside a rental home?

lol, i rented a house that was getting foreclosed upon and had real estate agent/appraiser/potential buyers see my grow tents over the course of a few months lol....NONE of them told the owner lady, until she saw them the day I moved out, and we had an argument in the driveway over growing pot. hahah never again...