*Pulling the trigger soon on total setup; several Qs still*

Cowboy Kahlil

Cowboy Kahlil

Well-Known Member
1) Gorilla has a Lite line for their tents now. Much cheaper but are they anywhere near as durable? My impression of most other tents is they're flimsier, can't handle weight, but I just want to know if there's any decent alt to the original Gorilla tents.

2) Gavita DE is #1 ballast for 600W or 1000W hps, yes? Growers Supply and other places now offer a Gavita 1000W DE with price reduced to $450 for the whole fixture, with a a Gavit e1000W DE fixture as the new standard for $600+. I'm not sure what the big difference is, so maybe a sharper eye can tell and pass judgment on whether the price difference is really worth it.

Also, next to Gavita, what ballast would be #2?

3) Almost exclusively, I'm finding ebay to be the cheapest source for almost everything. I understand that some things, like some ballasts, are much cheaper via Alibaba. What, besides ballasts, do I want to consider from China?

4) For veg room, I'm thinking 8 tubes of T5 4 footers. I'm not sure what fixture, what bulbs (brand? color spectrum?) or even how big a footprint they cover. All advice here is appreciated.

5) Vortex inline fan? Any other notables?

6) A little confused about building good roots from seeds and clones using aeroponics/bubbleponics. We're planning to use coco fiber in 5 gal or 7 gal bags. Should we root in coco cubes or ....?
 
_MrBelvedere_

_MrBelvedere_

Well-Known Member
Four items one through five, those are all great choices. For item6 personally I choose Rockwool and simple humidity domes because I can make 300 clones easily in half the space of an aerocloner. I find RW very easy to use, very sterile, and easier to handle. Once the clone or seedling has roots you can put it into any medium you want. Happy growing my friend.
 
Cowboy Kahlil

Cowboy Kahlil

Well-Known Member
What I'm aiming for is quality, (not necessarily absolute tops, which adds big $$) and equipment that has good odds of holding up a minimum of 2 years.
 
_MrBelvedere_

_MrBelvedere_

Well-Known Member
Do not get gavita ballasts on alibaba, they could be fakes with no warranty. Gavita is best, no #2 in IMO, they rock. Instead of alibaba Monster Gardens has a great rep. For the t5 4 footers, which on ebay do you like? For ducting, you can get that online or HD. Gorilla is always high quality. If you buy on ebay, make sure the expensive stuff like ballasts have a warranty and the seller has great rep. For the t5 bulbs you want blue spectrum, which is T5HO 4ft bulbs(434w). For your two gavitas, you want one MH bulb for veg, and a HPS for bloom. HTH?
 
Cowboy Kahlil

Cowboy Kahlil

Well-Known Member
_MrBelvedere_ said:
Do not get gavita ballasts on alibaba, they could be fakes with no warranty. Gavita is best, no #2 in IMO, they rock. Instead of alibaba Monster Gardens has a great rep. For the t5 4 footers, which on ebay do you like? For ducting, you can get that online or HD. Gorilla is always high quality. If you buy on ebay, make sure the expensive stuff like ballasts have a warranty and the seller has great rep. For the t5 bulbs you want blue spectrum, which is T5HO 4ft bulbs(434w). For your two gavitas, you want one MH bulb for veg, and a HPS for bloom. HTH?
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't going to buy Gavita there. If there was a number two, like Lumatek, I would have checked that.

Monster Gardens promotes a ballast called Powerbox so I was wondering about that one, too. But when it comes to the Gavitas, there are now two that look like they could work with a DE bulb. They are either this one at $450
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture

Or their latest version at the just marked down price of $487
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro1000e-de-120-240v-fixture

Any idea what sets them apart and why I should pick one over the other?

And are you saying I won't get good results with the T-5s for the veg cycle and just use the Gavita hps for the flower?
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
All this name brand ballast vs another name brand ballast being better than the other is nonsense , you can buy ballasts from HTG at half the price with a 5 yr guarantee, all of them are made in china & have only slight differences , if it were me i'd buy adjustable ballasts from htg , hoods from htg , bulbs & fans from htg , bulbs have same lumen output , fans have same cfm as vortex ect at half the cost & nobody has better warranties on their gear .

When i 1st got digital ballasts i bought expensive hydrofarm & lumitek ballasts , hydrofarm is a heat monster & the lumitek took a dump 6 months in , ordered replacements from htg & was shocked , htg & lumitek were the same inside .

The 8 bulb t-5 units only cover the area directly below the reflector & are not powerfull enough to light plants outside the reflector area , i own 6 of the 2ft x 4ft 8 bulb t-5 units , 2 hydrofarm , 2 HTG & 2 Sunleaves models , they all work as good as the other & measure nearly exact lumens under my light meter only the HTG brand models were $150 cheaper & came with 52 watt bulbs .

People will argue over these ultra expensive ballasts & fans being suerior because its what they bought & spent big money on , in reality they offer no benefit except pride of ownership .

You can buy a complete 600 watt digital ballast that runs hps & mh , & heavy duty 3ft x 3ft reflector , a 90,000 lumen 600 watt bulb & ratchet light hangers from htg for $365 & get a 5 yr no questions asked guarantee , an 8 bulb 40,000 lumen t-5 for $215 , a 6 inch vortex type inline fan with 425 cfm for $100 .

Please look at htg supply before you waste a grand buying rebadged china made shit thats no better & with lessor warranty.

Ive got over 6 yrs running htg ballasts & lights , out of the 30 600 watt htg ballasts i own only 1 went bad in its 6th yr & they still sent me a new ballast free .
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
The main difference between the Gavitas you posted is that one only operates on 240v. The other can be plugged into (make sure you get the right cord) 120 or 240 and it can also be controlled by Gavitas master controller if you wish.

Tents don't have the height that you'll want to run gavita at 1000 watts (you can dim it but its not as efficient at lower ranges). You could get a 750 gavita, or just go with a normal digital ballast and air cooled reflector and 1000 watt bulb.

- Jiji
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
The main difference between the Gavitas you posted is that one only operates on 240v. The other can be plugged into (make sure you get the right cord) 120 or 240 and it can also be controlled by Gavitas master controller if you wish.

Tents don't have the height that you'll want to run gavita at 1000 watts (you can dim it but its not as efficient at lower ranges). You could get a 750 gavita, or just go with a normal digital ballast and air cooled reflector and 1000 watt bulb.

- Jiji
Click to expand...
Question , have you ran a 1,000 watt hps on the 750 watt setting for extended periods ?

If you have how does it effect radient heat compared to the heat on the 1,000 watt setting ? How would the 750 compare to the heat from a standard 600 watt hps , i have very little experience with the adjustable ballasts over 600 watts & am getting ready to buy more lights in about a month , ive got 24 1,000 watt adjustable ballasts in mind .

I currently run three 600 hps per table & was thinking the added 150 watts from the 750 setting would add penetration without the massive heat from the full 1,000 setting i know i cant use .

Any info on heat you can give would be extremely helpfull , im thinking of ordering 1 complete 1,000 watt adjustable system to run heat comparison tests & penetration measurements before jumping in .
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Question , have you ran a 1,000 watt hps on the 750 watt setting for extended periods ?

If you have how does it effect radient heat compared to the heat on the 1,000 watt setting ? How would the 750 compare to the heat from a standard 600 watt hps , i have very little experience with the adjustable ballasts over 600 watts & am getting ready to buy more lights in about a month , ive got 24 1,000 watt adjustable ballasts in mind .

I currently run three 600 hps per table & was thinking the added 150 watts from the 750 setting would add penetration without the massive heat from the full 1,000 setting i know i cant use .

Any info on heat you can give would be extremely helpfull , im thinking of ordering 1 complete 1,000 watt adjustable system to run heat comparison tests & penetration measurements before jumping in .
Click to expand...
I have a lumatek and a gavita...both 1000w digital dimmable... i find that there is about a 4 deg f difference between settings. IE: if i maintain a 73-76- ambient temp at 600w then it jumps to 77-80f when turned up to 750 and then to 80-83f when turned to 1000w, if all else remains the same....
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
I have a lumatek and a gavita...both 1000w digital dimmable... i find that there is about a 4 deg f difference between settings. IE: if i maintain a 73-76- ambient temp at 600w then it jumps to 77-80f when turned up to 750 and then to 80-83f when turned to 1000w, if all else remains the same....
Click to expand...
Are the temp's you posted the temp of the grow room air or temps taken at the canopy ?

I can cool my 600's where the entire canopy can touch the glass without burning them , plus i get better light readings at the bottom of the grow than with my 1,000's being i can get the glass so close to the canopy using the 600's , the 1,000's have to be kept to far away from the canopy to avoid frying the plants .

Im hoping the extra 150 watts will still be cool enough where i can still keep the lights right on the canopy without any burn , thats why i shoulda been more specific , is there a way you could measure temp differences at the glass surface when you get a chance if the temps you posted are not canopy temps ?

Thank you for the info .
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Cowboy Kahlil said:
No, I wasn't going to buy Gavita there. If there was a number two, like Lumatek, I would have checked that.

Monster Gardens promotes a ballast called Powerbox so I was wondering about that one, too. But when it comes to the Gavitas, there are now two that look like they could work with a DE bulb. They are either this one at $450
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-1000-de-complete-fixture

Or their latest version at the just marked down price of $487
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro1000e-de-120-240v-fixture

Any idea what sets them apart and why I should pick one over the other?

And are you saying I won't get good results with the T-5s for the veg cycle and just use the Gavita hps for the flower?
Click to expand...
You will get better results in veg using the suggested MH bulb vs T-5's , but if your planning on setting up a perpetual grow with seperate rooms for veg & bud the T-5's will do a good gob vegging you just wont have the same growth the Metal Halide will give .
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Are the temp's you posted the temp of the grow room air or temps taken at the canopy ?

I can cool my 600's where the entire canopy can touch the glass without burning them , plus i get better light readings at the bottom of the grow than with my 1,000's being i can get the glass so close to the canopy using the 600's , the 1,000's have to be kept to far away from the canopy to avoid frying the plants .

Im hoping the extra 150 watts will still be cool enough where i can still keep the lights right on the canopy without any burn , thats why i shoulda been more specific , is there a way you could measure temp differences at the glass surface when you get a chance if the temps you posted are not canopy temps ?

Thank you for the info .
Click to expand...
Ya ...all temps at canopy level...

And....holy shit....you can cool the 600s enough to almost touch the canopy!!??

Well done. And i need to do some experimenting...lol

I will what i can do about getting temps at the glass. I am curious to know too...
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Ya ...all temps at canopy level...

And....holy shit....you can cool the 600s enough to almost touch the canopy!!??

Well done. And i need to do some experimenting...lol

I will what i can do about getting temps at the glass. I am curious to know too...
Click to expand...
Yeah i put alot of work & cash into that grow op , when i sold the dispensary i sold the building i grew in along with all 8 fully stocked flood & drain tables as well as the gear , im starting from scratch .

I ran 3 seperate 600 hps using 36 x 32 air cooled hoods covering the entire 8 ft tables & air outlets daisy chained together , i used 750 cfm inline fans pulling in cooled air & pushing the cooled air into the 1st light in the chain of 3 lights , at the end of the chain i used another 750 cfm fan pulling the warmed air out of the 3 lights & exhausting into a dump room where i used ozone generators & carbon can filters connected to a 2,000 cfm exhaust pulling the hot dump room air out thru a roof vent fan , it was an industrial building so the fan noise wasnt an issue , i had over 400 plants in that co-op grow legally but my new grow is gonna be much smaller scale but still sea of green .

I had the fans start pushing & pulling chilled air thru the lights an hour before lights on to start with cold fixtures & after 11.5 hours the glass was just warm to the touch , the only spot on the glass that ever got really warm was directly under the arc of the bulb , the air moved thru the chain of lights so fast the reflector & glass never got hot enough to burn the plants , actual temp of the glass itself averaged 74 degrees & canopy temps at 72 degrees which was the lights on room temp as well , lights off i cooled the room to 62 degrees to help bring out the colors in the buds.

I want to set up my new single table grow with the same 3 light configuration using push pull air cooling but would like the extra 150 watts from the 750 setting so i can grow em a bit taller & still retain density , im in a legal state so noise levels aren't an issue & i wont use an air dump room on this grow , its gonna be in the mother in law appartment overtop our garage so smell & rippers are non issues .
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Question , have you ran a 1,000 watt hps on the 750 watt setting for extended periods ?

If you have how does it effect radient heat compared to the heat on the 1,000 watt setting ? How would the 750 compare to the heat from a standard 600 watt hps , i have very little experience with the adjustable ballasts over 600 watts & am getting ready to buy more lights in about a month , ive got 24 1,000 watt adjustable ballasts in mind .

I currently run three 600 hps per table & was thinking the added 150 watts from the 750 setting would add penetration without the massive heat from the full 1,000 setting i know i cant use .

Any info on heat you can give would be extremely helpfull , im thinking of ordering 1 complete 1,000 watt adjustable system to run heat comparison tests & penetration measurements before jumping in .
Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't dim them very much. Usually only if there is a problem or something, like no/ac or heat issue. I use the Gavita complete fixture, no aftermarket reflector. I've spoke with Gavita techs a few times, and from what I gather they have a different lighting paradigm that stems from commercial horticulture.
Basically, they recommend fully lighting an entire area evenly, from wall to wall. Their light spacing focuses on overlapping footprints, and reflections from walls. Of course they go way more in depth on this but I think this should give you enough information for now.

Heres a diagram of light output vs dimmed and stock levels.



From tech support :"There is a minimal distance between the lamp and the crop. For 600W this is 60cm/2 ft, for 750W this is 70 cm / 2 ft 4 inch, for 1000W this is 90 cm / 3 ft. In larger rooms with many overlapping lights the optimal distance is often even a bit further away. "

It's not so much ambient temp increase, its infra-red. The reflector is great at what it was designed to do. But it is designed to be installed fairly high and strategically overlap other lights, with the row spacing approx 6 ft apart( a little more complex, but you get the idea).

So not so sure how well this will work for you.

- Jiji
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Yeah i put alot of work & cash into that grow op , when i sold the dispensary i sold the building i grew in along with all 8 fully stocked flood & drain tables as well as the gear , im starting from scratch .

I ran 3 seperate 600 hps using 36 x 32 air cooled hoods covering the entire 8 ft tables & air outlets daisy chained together , i used 750 cfm inline fans pulling in cooled air & pushing the cooled air into the 1st light in the chain of 3 lights , at the end of the chain i used another 750 cfm fan pulling the warmed air out of the 3 lights & exhausting into a dump room where i used ozone generators & carbon can filters connected to a 2,000 cfm exhaust pulling the hot dump room air out thru a roof vent fan , it was an industrial building so the fan noise wasnt an issue , i had over 400 plants in that co-op grow legally but my new grow is gonna be much smaller scale but still sea of green .

I had the fans start pushing & pulling chilled air thru the lights an hour before lights on to start with cold fixtures & after 11.5 hours the glass was just warm to the touch , the only spot on the glass that ever got really warm was directly under the arc of the bulb , the air moved thru the chain of lights so fast the reflector & glass never got hot enough to burn the plants , actual temp of the glass itself averaged 74 degrees & canopy temps at 72 degrees which was the lights on room temp as well , lights off i cooled the room to 62 degrees to help bring out the colors in the buds.

I want to set up my new single table grow with the same 3 light configuration using push pull air cooling but would like the extra 150 watts from the 750 setting so i can grow em a bit taller & still retain density , im in a legal state so noise levels aren't an issue & i wont use an air dump room on this grow , its gonna be in the mother in law appartment overtop our garage so smell & rippers are non issues .
Click to expand...
Ahhhh.... pre-cool and push and pull the air...

So the question becomes...is there better penetration with 750 right on top of the canopy or 1000 just a few inches over it?

Anyway, i must try the push/pull thing...plus i have a room that i can use as a dump. Thanks for the tip!
 
Cowboy Kahlil

Cowboy Kahlil

Well-Known Member
Gavita has tons of appeal with that DE e-series: more light, way longer-lasting bulbs, etc, but for a 5x5 space w/8' ceiling, I suspect that rules out 1000W with a 600W more apropos. For the bulbs to work properly you can't directly air-cool either.

I did watch a Monster video comparison of ballasts that they ran in 8/2013 that said Lumatek and Quantum were air-cooled which meant a higher fail rate. Gavita DE topped all, but Hydrofarm Phantom had a low-fail rate with 5 yr warranty (but they said it was a tad pricey) and Solis Tek also had a 5 yr warranty and a low fail rate. I think the sixth one tested was a Grow Op, but only came with a 3 yr warranty.

From that, I surmised the top 3 were Gavita, Solis Tek and Phantom, in that order. I wondered if I could get something identical to the ST or P from Alibaba, or better to find them on ebay with the 5 yr warranty.

I also wondered whether,18 months after the Monster comparison, new technology simply made that test undependable.
 
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