Question about Area 51 models

You're absolutely correct. It's a mess out there. Myriad growers, each with their own opinions.

Best pre-made for the money right now is probably an SGS-160. See Dawg's grows for proof of that claim.

I bet you'll find hardly anyone trashing DIY.

Oddjob said:

Vipar USA is available on Ebay, are they a scam? Seems like they have some good grows around here...

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I have read that they arent the best as well... best to use google and research before you buy..

Oddjob said:

Jesus this is becoming a huge PIA to decide which LED I want to go with. Seems like every thread I read becomes a pissing match and that every LED is just a Chinese re-brand. I want to
make the switch from HID but the initial investment is huge, it appears if you want to get quality and something that really works.

The phrase "Really works" seems to be widely opinionated as well.

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That has been a big problem with LED, because a lot of them are China rebrands it is like sifting through a cess pool... Some people/companies are just out to make a buck, some are there for the grower.

I agree that A51 have been excellent in customer service regarding question/ CLW look like a good option, Apache for me is way too over priced for what it is...but a monster of a light... Have a look at the progrow LED series... I havent heard bad things so far from them, this doesnt mean they arent bad.. I just havent seen anything in my search.... they are a little expensive for the new ones but have seen a few grows on youtube which look good..

Take everything with a grain of salt and do your research.. be aware they usually run less than their stated wattage so buy up if anything...

Problem with LED there isn't a true baseline yet, just completely dialed in like HID. But I do believe in the merits of LED, but the more I search and read, the less
things become more clear lol. A51 appears to be legit, now people are coming forward and stating the xgs is less than optimal for flower....just as I was going
to pull the trigger when they became available.

Oddjob said:

Problem with LED there isn't a true baseline yet, just completely dialed in like HID. But I do believe in the merits of LED, but the more I search and read, the less
things become more clear lol. A51 appears to be legit, now people are coming forward and stating the xgs is less than optimal for flower....just as I was going
to pull the trigger when they became available.

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dont buy one yet... they are bringing out a newer model this year...Its not that LED arent dialed in so much... its just the BS which has flooded the market.. lots of false advertising..

I was like you, the more I read the more I thought WTF but hang in there brother... you get a sense of what will be right and what will be wrong....
There are guys out there who have their shit together and their LEDS dialed in... just ask away Im sure they will be happy to help

Oddjob said:

A51 appears to be legit, now people are coming forward and stating the xgs is less than optimal for flower....just as I was going to pull the trigger when they became available.

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That's just the XGS. The SGS has a solid flowering reputation. I think the XGS was more geared to be an all-around light for bringing small grows from seed to completion. The SGS can do that too though, and will likely produce better flowers with its increased red spectrum.

If you have a grand to spend, you can cover about a 3.5'x3.5' area with 2 SGS-160s.

I'm obviously a huge proponent of DIY though, and highly recommend you check out my DIY thread before you decide on a pre-made panel.

I actually have 1500-2000$ to spend. I need to cover a 4x4x7 tent, which I have been doing with a 600w HID. It also appears that more often than not, one needs a panel per plant.
So coverage seems to be overstated even with the best of vendors.

Oddjob said:

I actually have 1500-2000$ to spend. I need to cover a 4x4x7 tent, which I have been doing with a 600w HID. It also appears that more often than not, one needs a panel per plant.
So coverage seems to be overstated even with the best of vendors.

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You could copy TheDawg's 600watt SGS setup for about $2K, and A51 has a discount for quantity.

If you go DIY, a $1000 BOM of CREE COB goodness would easily cover a 4'x4', and would cost you less in electricity over time. COBs are generally more efficient than single-diode chips, so it's tough for pre-made 3w&5w panels to match what you can achieve with DIY.

Gaius said:

You could copy TheDawg's 600watt SGS setup for about $2K, and A51 has a discount for quantity.

If you go DIY, a $1000 BOM of CREE COB goodness would easily cover a 4'x4', and would cost you less in electricity over time. COBs are generally more efficient than single-diode chips, so it's tough for pre-made 3w&5w panels to match what you can achieve with DIY.

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Yeah man I'm good with my hands but prolly not into building anything at this time. I'm ready to plunk down some coin, but in a smart and educated manner. Knowledge is power, but with LED's I'm noticing it's hard to acquire consumer knowledge.

Apache at600(4 at200's in one unit) and 4 a51's is the same price basically...$2K. So if anyone is thinking about getting multiple lights, apache is not as expensive as you may thing. Ya buying the at200/120's may be pricey, but the at600 is a decent bang for the buck, specially when talking apache. Anything less than a 4x4 a51 has a price advantage, but after that it's pretty close considering it all.

American made only matters in the assembly to me, because it's american/smaller batch workmanship that we think about when said to be american made. As far as american parts go...only cree chips make america stand out in led's. Other than that america is behind in tech.

Greengenes707 said:

Apache at600(4 at200's in one unit) and 4 a51's is the same price basically...$2K. So if anyone is thinking about getting multiple lights, apache is not as expensive as you may thing. Ya buying the at200/120's may be pricey, but the at600 is a decent bang for the buck, specially when talking apache. Anything less than a 4x4 a51 has a price advantage, but after that it's pretty close considering it all.

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Good point. Apache is probably slightly higher quality too, however I'd still go a51 because being able to spread or tilt the light can be a huge advantage.

midgetaus said:

dont buy one yet... they are bringing out a newer model this year...Its not that LED arent dialed in so much... its just the BS which has flooded the market.. lots of false advertising..

I was like you, the more I read the more I thought WTF but hang in there brother... you get a sense of what will be right and what will be wrong....
There are guys out there who have their shit together and their LEDS dialed in... just ask away Im sure they will be happy to help

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This is information is such a total and complete bummer for me considering the amount of time I watched the SGS then decided and pulled the trigger on an XGS three weeks ago. The damn thing is still on indefinite back order, maybe it's time to cancel.

Someone please counter all of this.

k...

Gaius said:

That's just the XGS. The SGS has a solid flowering reputation. I think the XGS was more geared to be an all-around light for bringing small grows from seed to completion. The SGS can do that too though, and will likely produce better flowers with its increased red spectrum.

If you have a grand to spend, you can cover about a 3.5'x3.5' area with 2 SGS-160s.

I'm obviously a huge proponent of DIY though, and highly recommend you check out my DIY thread before you decide on a pre-made panel.

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the SGS has a solid... reputation, the XGS jury is still out until Multipass' jungle finishes out like psu pointed out.

Gaius said:

..because being able to spread or tilt the light can be a huge advantage.

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..........but when you tilt the light you losing your coverage, the AT600 is built for a 4x4... the AT200s cover 3x2.5/panel, and im seeing if we can take it to 3x3'. If you have the change, the AT200 covers more than an SGS, with higher #'s and only ~10w difference.

JJ43 said:

..Someone please counter all of this.

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Sorry friend, but ill give ya'll half the answer...

..keeping the XPE's and driving them harder.

Scotch089 said:

........but when you tilt the light you losing your coverage, the AT600 is built for a 4x4... the AT200s cover 3x2.5/panel, and im seeing if we can take it to 3x3'. If you have the change, the AT200 covers more than an SGS, with higher #'s and only ~10w difference.

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Tilting lights can be highly effective if you have the room to get the proper cone of light. I agree however that doing this in a tent would be silly.

Good to know about the Apaches. If what Scotch says is the case, then they are solid choice for a $2k budget.

The Dawg said:

Brother Yoda Is Spewing BULLSHIT Here.Apache Uses Nichia Led (Japnesse) Area-51 Uses Cree Led's(American)Apache Uses Meanwell Drivers(Tiawaneese) As Do Area-51.I Dont Know Where Apache Get's Their Cases And Heatsinks Maybe These Are American Made?I Know Area-51 Uses A Chinesse Company For This.So My Question Is Which Led Is Mostly American?

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according to Wikipedia

Cree was formed in 1987 by researchers from North Carolina State University.
In 2005, Cree opened a subsidiary, Cree Asia-Pacific Ltd., in Hong Kong.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP]
In March 2007, Cree acquired Cotco Luminant Device Ltd of Hong Kong for $200 million.[SUP][5][/SUP] Cotco is a supplier of high brightness LEDs in China.
In 2009, Cree announced an agreement to purchase a 592,000-square-foot (55,000 m[SUP]2[/SUP]) facility in Huizhou, Guangdong Province, China, Cree’s first chip production facility outside of North America.[SUP][6][/SUP] Also in 2009, Cree announced an expansion at its Durham plant.[SUP][7]


[/SUP][SUP]I don't know what difference it makes[/SUP][SUP]
[/SUP]

Yodaweed said:

A51 are LEDs made in china just like every other LED maker... if you want American made quality products go with Apachetech they are expensive as shit but definitely the best LED out there besides DIY

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they are made in China but they are made in a Cree plant, with Cree quality control.

I don't know if you all noticed but everything is made in China

Looks like the SGS is in stock and the xgs is due on the 27th

Any idea if the new A51 light would be replacing the SGS and XGS or will it be an 85W version like the Hans Panel? I remember someone mentioned a smaller version would be launching soon.

Appreciate some info before deciding if I should just go ahead and get either the SGS/XGS.

Thanks

It will probably just take the place of the sgs 160, similar but supposed to be more efficient. I was told that it will have 4 drivers instead if the current 3.

I love the "A-51 appears to be legit" quote. I am still using the older panels. Pre xgs or sgs. I was always taught that if it ain't broke don't fix it. I personally think the A-220 is the best panel they produced. The A-90 also impresses me. It keeps right up with the OG A-135 maybe even better. I would buy any A-220 anyone wants to get rid of.

I have yet to see any real improvement from grow journals with the new lights. As always I will admit that I am not at all scientific. Don't know squat about light power or par or lumens and I don't really care to know.

But I know how to grow ganja. And I know that A-51 lights have made my life much much easier than my HPS with out loosing any weight or any of the shit people claim happens.