Question about sex genetics

BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
Is the gender of a plant determined even when it's a seedling? I know they don't show their sex until the flowering phase, but here's why I'm asking:

Let's say you have a vegetating plant. If sex isn't determined until flowering phase, one could take a cutting and hope it becomes female (even if the plant it was cut from was a male).

But if sex is determined well before that, then it's not possible.

So is it?
 
kalianepic

kalianepic

Member
The sex of the plant is not pre-determined. Growing conditions around the time the plant has three pairs of true leaves (not counting the cotyledons) early in seedling stage determine what sex the plant will become. Furthermore there are ways to coax more females from seed, or males if you want to find the best possible phenos for breeding. If you are really careful you can get almost 100% females, here is what you need to do...

Increasing the level of nitrogen makes more females. Lower it to make more males.

Increasing potassium levels promotes male growth. Decreasing it promotes females.

Low temperatures will increase the female percentage. High heat makes males.

High Humidity increases female tendencies. Low humidity increases male tendencies.

Low growing medium moisture also promotes high male percentages.

More Blue light spectrum (6500k) will increase the number of female plants. Red Spectrum (2700k) makes more males.

Fewer hours of daylight (14 hours) will raise female percentage. Longer light cycles (18 hours) provide more males.

This information is fact. It comes straight from Jorge Cervantes, if you don't know who he is, then you have no business smoking marijuana.
 
BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
kalianepic said:
The sex of the plant is not pre-determined. Growing conditions around the time the plant has three pairs of true leaves (not counting the cotyledons) early in seedling stage determine what sex the plant will become. Furthermore there are ways to coax more females from seed, or males if you want to find the best possible phenos for breeding. If you are really careful you can get almost 100% females, here is what you need to do...

Increasing the level of nitrogen makes more females. Lower it to make more males.

Increasing potassium levels promotes male growth. Decreasing it promotes females.

Low temperatures will increase the female percentage. High heat makes males.

High Humidity increases female tendencies. Low humidity increases male tendencies.

Low growing medium moisture also promotes high male percentages.

More Blue light spectrum (6500k) will increase the number of female plants. Red Spectrum (2700k) makes more males.

Fewer hours of daylight (14 hours) will raise female percentage. Longer light cycles (18 hours) provide more males.

This information is fact. It comes straight from Jorge Cervantes, if you don't know who he is, then you have no business smoking marijuana.
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Thanks for the incredibly thorough answer... I wish I could rep+ you multiple times.

So I guess until I can have a super controlled uber enthusiast grow environment, all my next grows are either going to be from fem seeds or clones. Thanks!

Dizzle Frost said:
the sex is predetermined whne the polen hits the calyx and forms a seed
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Well... now I don't know who to believe.
 
kalianepic

kalianepic

Member
Trust. I grow autoflowers and I start them from seed every time. So while I am trying to get a few males for pollination, I'm only doing this to continue the flow of bomb ass bud into my stash box. I don't follow all of the rules to a T because some factors are harder to control than others, but my female to male ratio is consistently 80%. Other than that, common sense tells us that if the sex of the plant were determined as early as when the grain of pollen lands on a pistil of the mother plant then herm rates would be much lower than they are, and cannabis would be a much more stable genus of plant. Sex is determined at conception only in higher mamals. It is commonly known that some types of frogs also respond to variable ecological factors to decide within any given year whether a ballance of more male or more female will be benifficial to the spieces durring that seasons conditions.
 
BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
kalianepic said:
Trust. I grow autoflowers and I start them from seed every time. So while I am trying to get a few males for pollination, I'm only doing this to continue the flow of bomb ass bud into my stash box. I don't follow all of the rules to a T because some factors are harder to control than others, but my female to male ratio is consistently 80%. Other than that, common sense tells us that if the sex of the plant were determined as early as when the grain of pollen lands on a pistil of the mother plant then herm rates would be much lower than they are, and cannabis would be a much more stable genus of plant. Sex is determined at conception only in higher mamals. It is commonly known that some types of frogs also respond to variable ecological factors to decide within any given year whether a ballance of more male or more female will be benifficial to the spieces durring that seasons conditions.
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Good to know.

Unrelated question - why autoflowers? Why are they so popular? I don't see the hype
 
kalianepic

kalianepic

Member
Its the turnaround time and simplicity. I'm a Michigan medical marijuana patent, and my wife and I are only allowed 24 plants so we wanted a perpetual system that was as simple as possible. You only need one light, set it and leave it alone. Autos don't need near as much nutrients to produce killer bud. The yields are now becoming competitive with photo plants and take less time to do it. F1 hybrid seeds are super easy to make. Perhaps my favorite part is that every fifteen days I harvest six plants yielding between 8 and 12 ounces of primo smoke, and then all I have to do is stick six more seeds in the dirt to continue the cycle. Males will pop up, just save some pollen in the freezer to make seeds from time to time. And ya know what? Fifteen days later I have six more plants to harvest with 8 to 12 more ounces of bud. I have a system that cost me only 700 dollars to start, and produces almost two pounds every month. I'm not much for hype myself but I must say that I was pretty hyped up when I found out what my setup could produce, and its so easy that my five year old could do it. But he passes on grass.
 
BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
kalianepic said:
Its the turnaround time and simplicity. I'm a Michigan medical marijuana patent, and my wife and I are only allowed 24 plants so we wanted a perpetual system that was as simple as possible. You only need one light, set it and leave it alone. Autos don't need near as much nutrients to produce killer bud. The yields are now becoming competitive with photo plants and take less time to do it. F1 hybrid seeds are super easy to make. Perhaps my favorite part is that every fifteen days I harvest six plants yielding between 8 and 12 ounces of primo smoke, and then all I have to do is stick six more seeds in the dirt to continue the cycle. Males will pop up, just save some pollen in the freezer to make seeds from time to time. And ya know what? Fifteen days later I have six more plants to harvest with 8 to 12 more ounces of bud. I have a system that cost me only 700 dollars to start, and produces almost two pounds every month. I'm not much for hype myself but I must say that I was pretty hyped up when I found out what my setup could produce, and its so easy that my five year old could do it. But he passes on grass.
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This is all very interesting and this is the first time I'm hearing it. What is it about autoflowers that makes them not as needy for care? How come they don't need as many nutrients? Why do they not need any 6500k spectrum for veg growth?

And how exactly does that mean that F1 hybrids are easy to make?
 
kalianepic

kalianepic

Member
Sorry for the late reply... Ive been kinda stoned.

Auto flowers need less care because of the ruderalis genes they contain, they are naturally more hardy to extreme conditions. I'm not sure why they don't take very well to high doses of nute but for some reason they are easy to overfertilize. Most strains will receive all of the nutes they need from a blend of good topsoil and vermiculite, remember that since they only grow for two to three months, by the time nutrients in the soil have been depleted, its time to flush them out and harvest. They do have a short veg period, it only lasts for about fifteen days, and then they will show sex and start to flower. The part about only needing one light is because they will grow and flower under the same photo period, meaning that you can set your timer to 18/6 and leave it there, the plants will be ready when they are ready and that makes it much easier to have a perpetual crop. F1 hybrids are easier and faster to make because the lifecycle of autos is so short, one can almost immediately see changes in the dominant traits of your seedlines after selective breeding, once you have identified what parent strains produce the most vigorous growth and best buzz, an almost unlimited amount of prime F1 seeds are yours to sow. With a few generations of selection, true breeding characteristics will be established and you can now give it a name and you have created a new strain, all your very own.
 
Dizzle Frost

Dizzle Frost

Well-Known Member
not to start drama..but if people could pre determine the sex of thier beans than im pretty sure more people would be doing it...what your saying Kal is a myth and not scientificly proven to hold any water. You might just have real good beans..i had 2 packs from one breeder and i only pulled 4 males outa 24 seeds...next grow..same conditions i pulled 7/20 males from a diff seed batch. Ive also had high female ratios in horrible conditions in veg.

you can put banana peels in your seed packs, and have cooler conditions and whatever other myths people have heard..but at the end of the day you have a seed that has already been givin a sex by its polen doner


as for auto's i know nothing about them TBH..but beans are beans...feminisd, autos and good ol regulars are all made the same way

i hope i didnt offend you in any way...peace
 
BustedParaphernalia

BustedParaphernalia

Well-Known Member
kalianepic said:
Sorry for the late reply... Ive been kinda stoned.

Auto flowers need less care because of the ruderalis genes they contain, they are naturally more hardy to extreme conditions. I'm not sure why they don't take very well to high doses of nute but for some reason they are easy to overfertilize. Most strains will receive all of the nutes they need from a blend of good topsoil and vermiculite, remember that since they only grow for two to three months, by the time nutrients in the soil have been depleted, its time to flush them out and harvest. They do have a short veg period, it only lasts for about fifteen days, and then they will show sex and start to flower. The part about only needing one light is because they will grow and flower under the same photo period, meaning that you can set your timer to 18/6 and leave it there, the plants will be ready when they are ready and that makes it much easier to have a perpetual crop. F1 hybrids are easier and faster to make because the lifecycle of autos is so short, one can almost immediately see changes in the dominant traits of your seedlines after selective breeding, once you have identified what parent strains produce the most vigorous growth and best buzz, an almost unlimited amount of prime F1 seeds are yours to sow. With a few generations of selection, true breeding characteristics will be established and you can now give it a name and you have created a new strain, all your very own.
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Can autoflowers be feminized? This is sounding more and more appealing, but I want feminized seeds next time around. Not gonna waste my time with males unless I want one, or until I can have a bigger grow that has room to afford a male here and there.
 
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