Questions about useing Gavitas in tent....

Sativied

Well-Known Member
So... If I made up a 5x5 box would I just put the gavita right up on the ceiling? Or can it get closer than that?
The common rule here is 10cm ( 4inch ) distance for every 100 watt hps. Works from 250w to gavita 1k-watters. 60cm for 600watt, 1meter (40inch) for 1kW. 4inches less is doable, lower than that is above all unnecessary.

Coincidentally, that forum admin now working for gavita posted here a few times too and addressed two issues mentioned:
sorry? 9 ft? 90 cm comes closer for the 1000W, and they will never give you a square footprint.
Search the username on some other large grow forums for a lot more info/facts.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I just checked a few local grow journals to make sure but yes, it's common to just hang it on the ceiling and not care about the distance. Some start from seed... no additional stretch cause plenty of light even up to 5 feet and plants just grow closer getting more intense/dense light higher up so it all works out. I'd run into height problems with my hydro setup though...

Sannie, from sannie seeds, who owns that forum that whazzup is/was admin at, mentioned this when they tested the 1000DE in 2010 already: "To be honest I should mentioned that it's advisable to use a space of 1.50x1.50m (5x5') with this 1000 watter but I'm very stubborn and like a lot on small spaces and then this is a challenge ". And then went on to test it in 4x4, which plenty of people still do too, but then they typically don't boost it to 1150 or run it at 825w. Same thing with a typical larger setup, 4x 1k watt in a 240cmx240cm (neatly 8x8feet) tent not boosted, or in a 300x300cm (over 9x9) boosted.

My comment about 5x5 being perfect for the 1k watter is based on picking between 4x4 and 5x5 tents or closets. If you can buy a 4.5x6' tent or build your own custom closet about that size it's probably worth it especially if you plant to stick with rectangular hps bulbs (it's not specific to gavita). If you hang the lamp in the middle however and got the typical 4-9 plants the light would on average per plant be divided in a similar way in 5x5.

Edit, those last parts where meant for a different thread, the 2000w in a 5x5...bongsmilie
 
Last edited:

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
I just checked a few local grow journals to make sure but yes, it's common to just hang it on the ceiling and not care about the distance. Some start from seed... no additional stretch cause plenty of light even up to 5 feet and plants just grow closer getting more intense/dense light higher up so it all works out. I'd run into height problems with my hydro setup though...

Sannie, from sannie seeds, who owns that forum that whazzup is/was admin at, mentioned this when they tested the 1000DE in 2010 already: "To be honest I should mentioned that it's advisable to use a space of 1.50x1.50m (5x5') with this 1000 watter but I'm very stubborn and like a lot on small spaces and then this is a challenge ". And then went on to test it in 4x4, which plenty of people still do too, but then they typically don't boost it to 1150 or run it at 825w. Same thing with a typical larger setup, 4x 1k watt in a 240cmx240cm (neatly 8x8feet) tent not boosted, or in a 300x300cm (over 9x9) boosted.

My comment about 5x5 being perfect for the 1k watter is based on picking between 4x4 and 5x5 tents or closets. If you can buy a 4.5x6' tent or build your own custom closet about that size it's probably worth it especially if you plant to stick with rectangular hps bulbs (it's not specific to gavita). If you hang the lamp in the middle however and got the typical 4-9 plants the light would on average per plant be divided in a similar way in 5x5.

Wow, thank you for checking for me. I searched the name but lots of stuff in dutch it seems...

I've found a new place to grow, and its a horse barn, specifically in a stall or two. So, I'm going to be building my own rooms inside of the stalls and going from there. I can build the space around the lights, and will probably have 4 or 5 plants underneath it.

I was originally planning on going full out vert and doing a 4plant vert scrog with a 315w CMH and 600/1000w HPS hung stacked in the center. I would veg the plants under horizontal HID to around 2.5-3ft then they'd get vertical lighting to flower.

But now I'm wondering if I can fit as many big plants underneath the gavita and just not have to worry about the "vertical" aspect because of the shear intensity/penetration ability of the unit.

@OP sorry for the hijack but I think you got a couple great answers. I'm happy to picked sativied's brain for a moment and maybe you can also benefit from our dialogue.

Sativied, if you had a fresh start how would you do it? Moderate budget in mind, I am considering gavitas after all...
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Wow, thank you for checking for me. I searched the name but lots of stuff in dutch it seems....
He posted good info without the 'h' in the username at icmag. Probably also at opengrow.

Sativied, if you had a fresh start how would you do it? Moderate budget in mind, I am considering gavitas after all...
Will be making one myself sooner or later, I got a gavita hood (tripplestar, pretty neat allowing for different beam width settings basically but not good enough for 4x4, more for 3x4) and use a phillips magnetic ballast. I think I will got for the new 600/750 series, need to keep it small to keep a low profile (rental, electricity use...)

I wouldn't dare to really make a comparison with vertical growing, but one of the reasons gavita got so popular (in greenhouses, i.e. professional growers) is because their systems did a better job with phillips bulbs than phillips did itself, especially when it comes to penetration. It genuinely a classic, people being surprised with how low the hard buds go.

It's past bed time for me, I'll leave this thread open and post a few classic examples from 1-4 bulb "bread growers" tomorrow. One of the better examples I've seen here of similar grows is from @AlphaPhase. Once you got buds side-to-side like that the only way to increase yield is grow 'deeper' colas. You mentioned 4-5 plants, which is actually quite common here for 1k watt because 5 plants is sort of decriminalized. Many growers have a tent or closet at multiple friends who just water the plants. It's how many coffeeshops here are supplied so they try to push the most out of 5 plants while still doing 5 or more cycles a year. They don't pull 1.5gpw though, that's rare, but 2lbs/1gpw is not uncommon especially with strains like the popular amnesia haze that is suitable to grow tall colas.

This thread sums up many of the basics, it's very rough, but a common starting point on this side of the pond where space is scarce: http://rollitup.org/t/12-step-program-for-closet-virgins.860295/#post-11311162
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
He posted good info without the 'h' in the username at icmag. Probably also at opengrow.

Will be making one myself sooner or later, I got a gavita hood (tripplestar, pretty neat allowing for different beam width settings basically but not good enough for 4x4, more for 3x4) and use a phillips magnetic ballast. I think I will got for the new 600/750 series, need to keep it small to keep a low profile (rental, electricity use...)

I wouldn't dare to really make a comparison with vertical growing, but one of the reasons gavita got so popular (in greenhouses, i.e. professional growers) is because their systems did a better job with phillips bulbs than phillips did itself, especially when it comes to penetration. It genuinely a classic, people being surprised with how low the hard buds go.

It's past bed time for me, I'll leave this thread open and post a few classic examples from 1-4 bulb "bread growers" tomorrow. One of the better examples I've seen here of similar grows is from @AlphaPhase. Once you got buds side-to-side like that the only way to increase yield is grow 'deeper' colas. You mentioned 4-5 plants, which is actually quite common here for 1k watt because 5 plants is sort of decriminalized. Many growers have a tent or closet at multiple friends who just water the plants. It's how many coffeeshops here are supplied so they try to push the most out of 5 plants while still doing 5 or more cycles a year. They don't pull 1.5gpw though, that's rare, but 2lbs/1gpw is not uncommon especially with strains like the popular amnesia haze that is suitable to grow tall colas.

This thread sums up many of the basics, it's very rough, but a common starting point on this side of the pond where space is scarce: http://rollitup.org/t/12-step-program-for-closet-virgins.860295/#post-11311162
Is sannie and crew doing ok man? Any recommendations as far as strains? I'm going to crack a pack of caramel candy kush the pics they have aren't very good I'll see if I can get some better ones up.
 

Cowboy Kahlil

Well-Known Member
I'm getting plenty confused in this thread (but I'm a newb, so that's easy). I thought I read elsewhere that DE bulbs are NOT supposed to be directly air-cooled, as that limits what they put out, so indirect cooling should be used on the DE Gavita setups.

Did I miss something?
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I'm getting plenty confused in this thread (but I'm a newb, so that's easy). I thought I read elsewhere that DE bulbs are NOT supposed to be directly air-cooled, as that limits what they put out, so indirect cooling should be used on the DE Gavita setups.

Did I miss something?
The fact they are not supposed to be directly air-cooled doesn't mean they need to be indirectly cooled. And yes, running at a certain temperature range is makes a difference in output and even skews some tests.

I have actually never seen a cooltube irl. Been going to growshops for decades. A common mistake I see in these forums is the lack of a proper located exhaust. Warm air rises, with a proper exhaust (1m3/h per 1watt hps) and intake it doesn't bother the plants.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Is sannie and crew doing ok man? Any recommendations as far as strains? I'm going to crack a pack of caramel candy kush the pics they have aren't very good I'll see if I can get some better ones up.
I don't really know, the crew has changed a little over the years. That admin now working for gavita, new admins, new mods, I haven't been active there for over a year. Sannie and that admin used to post good stuff but aren't that active anymore, and I got the impression they care more now about opengrow than their dutch forum.

The dutch forums are similar yet different in a couple of ways. Can't post anything, whether it's a question, comment or journal, without getting tons of advice. It's like a match, a competition of who can point out most thing that went wrong or will go wrong. They always find something to bitch about. Replies usually start with "you should...." followed by a lot of parroting and unasked advice. A real herd mentality. It's not just forums though, growshops too. That works bad when it comes to myths etc., but has led to rather standardized grow setups and setting up a decent environment makes letting the plant grow bud rather easy.

I have no recommendations from Sannie strains, well, except maybe Sugar Punch, really liked that one, especially the SSH pheno (but sweeter than SSH). Shackzilla is popular for pretty much the same reason, a good ssh cross.

I've always considered sannie's seeds to be good reliable stuff for beginners, it's not something I can recommend to those who want to run something more special/exclusive. I've noticed over the years clearly that Sannie isn't just all about making money but also about keeping customers happy so by itself not a bad choice at all.

^^1000watter gavita in 4x4 tent. Plus shows nicely how many of the forum-growers here grow, Sannie's organic style.
@a senile fungus: I'll post some more pics later but this video shows the typical setup nicely (well, except the co2... and the airplane water :lol:)

Also shows THE difference of grows in US and NL, timing the switch to 12/12, to prevent doing it too late, is part of that basic parroted advice. Very common in journals "when are you going to switch to 12/12?" "have you switched to 12/12 yet" "you should switch to 12/12" "you are way too late switching to 12/12, now it will get too full and you'll get more fluff than colas". Pretty sure I don't have journal there where it's not debated. While it's true growing to full maturity or months can lead to more potent bud, it's not worth 4-8 weeks of vegging, and becomes irrelevant with clones. H&G specifically released an N booster for vegging for the US market with a very similar explanation, ya'll grow trees, fill up the space, and then switch to 12/12 while we do most of the vegging during transition. Same reason for scrogs often not turning out as nicely as I see them in NL.
 
Last edited:

Sativied

Well-Known Member
and post a few classic examples from 1-4 bulb "bread growers" tomorrow.
Images are watermarked but dutch forum, no competition for riu so didn't bother removing it...
9x amnesia haze under 1000watt gavita, he ran eventually 600w because plants got too tall, yielded over 700gr
upload_2015-2-16_19-39-1.png upload_2015-2-16_19-37-35.png

5x African Pineapple Queen, grow from "Krasi", mod at that forum now, supercrop master. 1000watt gavita, 1500m3h exhaust, 2000m3h filter (using that large allows for dimming the exhaust). And yes, freaking seedling under 1000watt DE gavita (surely dimmed at the point and no recommendable imo, more efficient to start under T8/T5/Fluo or mh.
upload_2015-2-16_19-42-20.png not a great run, better example, same grower, different tent:

-Secret Jardin Intense 120 Mammoth tent 240x120x215cm (8x4 feet roughly).
-1x Gavita 1000watt DE.
-Intake 1500m3, exhaust 2500m3 icm 2500m3 Phresh filter. (again note the focus on ventilation).
8 plants, so 4 on each side, Uruzghani Kush, fast and low yielding strain but 8x4 filled...
upload_2015-2-16_19-50-18.png upload_2015-2-16_19-50-32.png upload_2015-2-16_19-52-47.png upload_2015-2-16_19-53-33.png upload_2015-2-16_19-54-35.pngupload_2015-2-16_19-55-44.png

More in next post, can't attach more images...
 

Attachments

Sativied

Well-Known Member
upload_2015-2-16_20-1-12.png upload_2015-2-16_20-0-48.png upload_2015-2-16_20-0-14.png yeah obviously not fed probably, had rot too, but damn.. massive yield.

5x amnesia haze in tent:
upload_2015-2-16_20-5-23.png

From a girl, 5x5 tent with gavita 1000 and a gavita plasma. 20x jackberry plants, 1100gram (hey.. first time gavita in tent... not bad at all).
upload_2015-2-16_20-7-29.png Yes, fog. Designed to run in very humid greenhouses...
upload_2015-2-16_20-6-0.png day 44:upload_2015-2-16_20-9-19.png

750w gavita in 4x4, ran out of space, dimmed but still nearly 600gram:
upload_2015-2-16_20-14-7.png

5 amnesia haze under 1000watt gavita in 4x4 tent, 970gram dry (dry and ready for sale, none of that wishfulthinking dry)
upload_2015-2-16_20-15-7.png Bulb eventually at only 24inch from plants, plants 100cm (3 feet tall, 80% of that is hard buds). upload_2015-2-16_20-19-8.png yellow harvest... they call it "ripe".

The highest yielding growers here, growers who've been pushing out 6 even 7 cycles a year for years, at multiple locations, seem to agree that horizontally, in a tent/closet, 1.2-1.3 is a sort of realistic maximum. 1.5gpw is... well, given the right strain (hard dense nugs, colas that fill in from top to bottom , perfect bud site spacing and veg length... Just aim for 1gpw, be happy if you get that or more, look for improvements if you get less. If you get 0.5gpw or so, see that closet virgin thread I linked to earlier.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Ok one more...

Old: upload_2015-2-16_20-27-24.png -> grow, harvest, sell, make money, buy new:
New: upload_2015-2-16_20-28-1.png
upload_2015-2-16_20-29-32.png <-controller, allows them to dim automatically when it gets to hot (like over 86f)

upload_2015-2-16_20-30-18.png
upload_2015-2-16_20-30-34.png
upload_2015-2-16_20-30-49.png
^^Strawberry Diesel. Did produce 5kilo dry (5x 1000w gavita according to post, I see 6...), but cappy budstructure, shaved clean for coffeeshop (1gram bags requires good bag appeal with mini buds) only 3.3kilo.

And again get a proper exhaust. Once you got a decent HPS lighting setup, that's the most important item. Better get overcapacity and dim most of the year (except hot months).
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Good exhaust for single bulb setup of typically 600watt or less, company that makes the original is Ruck in Germany. I got one of these with thermostat, 4 speeds, chooses it based on temp. Some clones/knockoffs (in europe) are known to fail or even burn. Downside is noise.
upload_2015-2-16_20-40-44.png

Good exhaust for high end setups with 1k watter(s), snail house torin:
upload_2015-2-16_20-43-26.pngupload_2015-2-16_20-43-40.png I got one in a metal box in my closet for a year already, 1200m3h, not connected yet cause it's overkill..., "softbox" prevents snitching neighbors from hearing it. Gets noisy, hums, when dimmed with cheap dimmers.

There are exceptions, but generally fans that look like the following are crap and not suitable. They don't create the pressure the first one above does and usually don't have the capacity the larger snails offer.
upload_2015-2-16_20-45-45.png
With these bathroom thingies being the worst:
upload_2015-2-16_20-46-17.png

The diameter, 6" or 8" doesn't mean as much as is implied in threads here. That's not the spec you should care about.
 
Last edited:

FamMan

Well-Known Member
Wow. Thank you all for so many replies and useful info. I am a cook and working in two restaurants ATM and i didn't have many opportunities to respond much this weekend....but i read them all. I really am grateful and appreciative to you all(especially SATIVIED and JCOMMERCE ....seems like you guys really got this down and im sure are producing some fire dank).
After reading all the responses and doing more research.....im not sure i want to go with the Gavitas. They seem like awesome lights however I dont think cooling a whole tent is the smartest option for me considering this is my 1st run. Summer seems to get hot here and i want to give myself the best chance for success. Down the road maybe.
So I am doing my research now on a powerbox 1000w hd ballast and the ac/de reflector. What do you think about that combo? Still gives me the DE but i can air cool the fixture(i know.....not the lamp). I have a few questions.
1. Can a well built DE lamp/ballast(not a Gavita) still get as good of results as the Gavita? I know they are number one...but im wondering if its the double ended technology that gets them the great results or is it somehing else?
2. I know the powerbox switch box is made in USA.....Are their ballast too?
3. Anyone have any experience with powerbox ballast(or anything negative to say about them)? Anyone running Double Ended bulbs with them?
Thanx again everyone. Peace.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
1. Can a well built DE lamp/ballast(not a Gavita) still get as good of results as the Gavita? I know they are number one...but im wondering if its the double ended technology that gets them the great results or is it somehing else?
They probably are number 1, overall, but that doesn't mean everything in their line is the best out there, at least, I think so. Like I said in one of the posts they are amongst others popular for doing a better job at running the DE than the creators of the DE (phillips) (because of their fixtures, ballast+hood), BUT that doesn't mean they are the only one. If I remember correctly a sun lec hood provided a better par output on a 36x36" footprint than a gavita at growershouse.com (see test and review section there, no idea how reliable, but seems proper).

Perhaps an option is to get a HortiStar HR 96 Miro (the hood from gavita) separately, that's partly their strength but again, that sun lec de system sure looks good on paper.

All that said, I can definitely see the problem if you live in hot summers. But as some pointed out, they come with remote ballasts too. People tend to get a little stronger exhaust with a gavita, but it's not the reason for a good exhaust in the first place.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Ok one more...

Old: View attachment 3352695 -> grow, harvest, sell, make money, buy new:
New: View attachment 3352697
View attachment 3352700 <-controller, allows them to dim automatically when it gets to hot (like over 86f)

View attachment 3352701
View attachment 3352702
View attachment 3352703
^^Strawberry Diesel. Did produce 5kilo dry (5x 1000w gavita according to post, I see 6...), but cappy budstructure, shaved clean for coffeeshop (1gram bags requires good bag appeal with mini buds) only 3.3kilo.

And again get a proper exhaust. Once you got a decent HPS lighting setup, that's the most important item. Better get overcapacity and dim most of the year (except hot months).
is there an A/C used in lets say using 6 of those or is it total ventilation system? and at 24 inches can 1000 watts be fully used? and some one was telling me at running even less then a 1000 watts he was seeing better lighting then his previous 1000 watt set ups. would you say that is true. sometimes its hard to believe gardeners around my area. every one seems to shoot their mouth off about this and that.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
For 4 or more it''s not uncommon to have an A/C unit. The "Opticlimate" is a popular one for larger setups, does it all.

thats fucking boss dude. thanks for that. have you seen one in action? and that can handle lets say a 4 burner or 8 burner? wow man. thats fucking cool. and here i bought a 3 ton split system. going to google the price now on those.
 
Top