Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
So I was out in my pool yesterday, and we have four very large evergreens growing in our backyard, they are probably 30-40ft tall, I saw some giant mushrooms growing underneath them all over, never noticed them before.

I was thinking, wouldn't this make a good compost soil? Or a good addition to my ROLS?

Pretty sure I'm going to add it and see how it does on my next run of plants unless anyone has concerns. I'm thinking the soil would be pretty rich, and seems like fungal activity is strong.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
AllDayToker said:
So I was out in my pool yesterday, and we have four very large evergreens growing in our backyard, they are probably 30-40ft tall, I saw some giant mushrooms growing underneath them all over, never noticed them before.

I was thinking, wouldn't this make a good compost soil? Or a good addition to my ROLS?

Pretty sure I'm going to add it and see how it does on my next run of plants unless anyone has concerns. I'm thinking the soil would be pretty rich, and seems like fungal activity is strong.
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I would be concerned about the ph level under evergreens............have it tested by your local uni/ ag department first IMO.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
AllDayToker said:
Seems like nothing I can't test myself with an experiment. If the pH is too low I can always add lime if I see a benefit with the addition of the pine tree soil.
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Give it a whirl ADT. On the plus side (like you said) there looks to be a lot of fungal activity, and adding indigenous microbes to your soil is a good thing. As PSUAGRO pointed out though, pine needles and the like are very acidic, as would be the soil at its base from the litter fall so just keep an eye on your ph.
 
E

earthling420

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Do you have access to compost or worm castings? If so, I'd brew up a compost tea and wet your soil down with that. That will jump start the old soil with a fresh army of microbes, and the soil will be as good as new.

BTW, there are no stupid questions. Fire away :bigjoint:
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Thanks man I'll do that! :)

In that case, when the soil is baking, is it better to have it in the sun?

So if iI mix coco and peat, I do still need perlite or other aeration, but do I need to add lime or anything for ph?
Thanks!
 
DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
earthling420 said:
Thanks man I'll do that! :)

In that case, when the soil is baking, is it better to have it in the sun?

So if iI mix coco and peat, I do still need perlite or other aeration, but do I need to add lime or anything for ph?
Thanks!
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Have you checked out page 1?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
earthling420 said:
In that case, when the soil is baking, is it better to have it in the sun?
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No. "Cooking" is a bit of a misleading term IMO. The soil doesn't need to cook, or heat up to any degree. What needs to happen is you have to give the microbes present in the compost that you added time to break down the organic inputs (kelp meal, etc). Until the microbes have processed this stuff it is not plant available. So the temperature in which you let the soil sit only matters to the extent that the microbes in the mix are impacted. If you put your soil outside in the middle of January in Michigan you'd likely kill off or force dormancy on the population. So, any moderate temperature range will be fine. Mine sits in my basement.

earthling420 said:
So if iI mix coco and peat, I do still need perlite or other aeration, but do I need to add lime or anything for ph?
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Yes, I would add some type of aeration bits to whichever medium you chose at a ratio of 25%-33%. As for liming agents, that should be commensurate to the amount of peat you are using. I add 1 cup per cf of peat. I like oyster shell flour as it seems to be the only natural source of unadulterated calcium carbonate. There are other options if you can't find this locally.


earthling420 said:
Im a lil confused. For Coot's recipe, coco would not qualify as the aeration correct? Would it be with the peat moss?
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Coco would be considered a replacement for peat. You can use it instead of, or in conjunction with peat. Keep in mind that it's CEC is going to be somewhat lower than peat. That's an important point, but I'm not sure how important. They measure CEC and give it a number score. Humus registers at 200. Peat is anywhere between 100-200 depending on the source. Coco coir comes in somewhere around 80.

I look at those numbers a bit like owning a fast car. If your Porsche can reach 250mph, that's very impressive but not very useful. When are you ever going to need to drive that fast? So to me the question is not how high a mediums CEC is, it's how high do I NEED it to be? I'm going to be doing a side x side grow using both coco and peat in a few weeks. I'm anxious to see the results .....
 
E

earthling420

Well-Known Member
stowandgrow said:
No. "Cooking" is a bit of a misleading term IMO. The soil doesn't need to cook, or heat up to any degree. What needs to happen is you have to give the microbes present in the compost that you added time to break down the organic inputs (kelp meal, etc). Until the microbes have processed this stuff it is not plant available. So the temperature in which you let the soil sit only matters to the extent that the microbes in the mix are impacted. If you put your soil outside in the middle of January in Michigan you'd likely kill off or force dormancy on the population. So, any moderate temperature range will be fine. Mine sits in my basement.



Yes, I would add some type of aeration bits to whichever medium you chose at a ratio of 25%-33%. As for liming agents, that should be commensurate to the amount of peat you are using. I add 1 cup per cf of peat. I like oyster shell flour as it seems to be the only natural source of unadulterated calcium carbonate. There are other options if you can't find this locally.




Coco would be considered a replacement for peat. You can use it instead of, or in conjunction with peat. Keep in mind that it's CEC is going to be somewhat lower than peat. That's an important point, but I'm not sure how important. They measure CEC and give it a number score. Humus registers at 200. Peat is anywhere between 100-200 depending on the source. Coco coir comes in somewhere around 80.

I look at those numbers a bit like owning a fast car. If your Porsche can reach 250mph, that's very impressive but not very useful. When are you ever going to need to drive that fast? So to me the question is not how high a mediums CEC is, it's how high do I NEED it to be? I'm going to be doing a side x side grow using both coco and peat in a few weeks. I'm anxious to see the results .....
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Wow thanks stow! Great info and you as well as others in this thread seem to know your stuff, definitely better than me!

So would maybe 120F tops be too much heat? For the sitting process?

Damn nice man, Im gonna be following that ;) Im thinking about doing the same thing coco/peat. Would be able to compare our results a lil too.

Ahh, i like where you're going with the cec :)

Don, thanks freshened up my page 1 skills, needed to bad lol
 
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DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
earthling420 said:
Wow thanks stow! Great info and you as well as others in this thread seem to know your stuff, definitely better than me!

So would maybe 120F tops be too much heat? For the sitting process?

Damn nice man, Im gonna be following that ;) Im thinking about doing the same thing coco/peat. Would be able to compare our results a lil too.

Ahh, i like where you're going with the cec :)

Don, thanks freshened up my page 1 skills, needed to bad lol
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Lol...i was just bustin your balls man. Lots of great info there.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I agree with using oyster shell flour over dolo/horti lime..........too much mag "tightens" the soil and causes issues with organics IMO.

If your soil is extremely acidic don't use it with MJ...........maybe cutting it with char would help, but still i would be leery.
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
DonPetro said:
G13/Hashplant...from which breeder?
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Hey DP! It's from Hazeman. I'm just running a small summer grow of three plants with one male to do a little pollen chucking. I'd love it if anyone had any experience with these genetics. I've ran one Grape13 and two elephant stompers from Hazeman. They were good, but nothing I kept around. Hoping for something better out of these!

P-
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Pattahabi said:
This is the information I found on the cec of coco.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/31/6/965.short



Depending, you're talking best case scenario coir has 60% of the cec of peat, and worse case less then 20% the cec.
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Yes, peat has a higher CEC than coco coir. That's been established. My question is how much does that matter? If CEC were the only concern then we would all be growing in straight compost. It's not though. Structure, porosity, water retention, etc are all considerations. Having 25%-33% of the base consisting of worm castings also helps make up for what coir lacks as far as cec too.

So peat has a higher cec, but what does that mean to us? Compost teas innoculate the soil, but when is enough enough? If I have 100 trillion microbes in my container, do I need to keep applying teas to reach 150 trillion? Does that further my goal of growing a healthy, happy plant or is it unnecessary? This is what I'm hoping to find out. I'm going to be trying RePeat soon, and I'd like to make some leaf mold as well. That seems very promising, but obviously takes some time to make.
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Yes, peat has a higher CEC than coco coir. That's been established. My question is how much does that matter? If CEC were the only concern then we would all be growing in straight compost. It's not though. Structure, porosity, water retention, etc are all considerations. Having 25%-33% of the base consisting of worm castings also helps make up for what coir lacks as far as cec too.

So peat has a higher cec, but what does that mean to us? Compost teas innoculate the soil, but when is enough enough? If I have 100 trillion microbes in my container, do I need to keep applying teas to reach 150 trillion? Does that further my goal of growing a healthy, happy plant or is it unnecessary? This is what I'm hoping to find out. I'm going to be trying RePeat soon, and I'd like to make some leaf mold as well. That seems very promising, but obviously takes some time to make.
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I'll be interested if anyone answers this question on the other site. So what are you thinking the minimal cec is for a productive living organic soil is then?

Edit: shredder did post a good link that may answer some of your questions. I'm really digging the mobile version on my computer - so much cleaner imo.

In general, the higher the CEC, the higher the soil fertility.
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cation-exchange_capacity
 
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