Religion, or lack of, open discussion/FRIENDLY debate.

the shroud of turin has been proven to be a fake time and time again the only people who argue its real are religious people and there pseudo scientists. i mean really? have you seen pics of that thing it even looks obviously fake. its 2010 we can explain most things now and things we cant we use logic and reason to attempt to do so. it amazes me in an industrialized society people are still taking the bible and other 'holy books' word for word some people should be sterilized for the sake of mankind. i wish i had audio of conversations i have had with religious types in person where they have to immediately answer questions when asked. comical absolutely comical its like beating up a retard.

bicycle racer said:

the shroud of turin has been proven to be a fake time and time again the only people who argue its real are religious people and there pseudo scientists. i mean really? have you seen pics of that thing it even looks obviously fake. its 2010 we can explain most things now and things we cant we use logic and reason to attempt to do so. it amazes me in an industrialized society people are still taking the bible and other 'holy books' word for word some people should be sterilized for the sake of mankind. i wish i had audio of conversations i have had with religious types in person where they have to immediately answer questions when asked. comical absolutely comical its like beating up a retard.

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again scientist not having connection with the church ray rogers and his team in 08, are the ones who have seemed to confirm its authenticity, if ppl arent gonna know what their talkin about whats the point of debating? this is a common problem in america today, its a becomming a common trait in ppl, taking what little they know and assume they are experts, i've backed my theory and opinions with facts and evidence, multiple secular sources. all information is verifiable. the only ones still fighting this, like true atheists, are starting to look like children, no matter what you lay at their feet, they still claim to be right. go back some pages bub and check the sources,


oh by the way, its only 2009. if you dont even know the year how can i expect you to be up on your research?

your living in your own bubble of truth as most religious people do you miss construe what you read or hear to suit your beliefs. how much of the rest of the fairy tales in the bible do you believe are reality based? p.s. i forgot to type almost 2010 youre right about the year thats it though. any self respecting man or woman who is a credible respected scientist seeing the evidence or lack there of has deemed the shroud a fake wake up to reality this is old news.

see you all are hypocrites to your own philosophy, you say i misconstrue what i read or hear to suit my beliefs, as opposed to you right? you live an un bias life? no actually atheist do the same thing, and on top of it all i dont refuse evidence, show me current verifiable and reliable sources of the shroud STILL being deemed a fake, because i promise you will find nothing but ongoing research, and if it has been deemed a fake as an absolute then there wouldn't still be tests by SCIENTISTS, both religious and non. you say i live in my own bubble of truth, but rather i take time to research and verify my own and oppositions evidence. can you honestly say the same?

religion is eveil and the root of almost all mans problems and wars or murders.Avoid religion and just believe in what you do alone

FilthyFletch said:

religion is eveil and the root of almost all mans problems and wars or murders.Avoid religion and just believe in what you do alone

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Power, and those who seek it, are the root of humanity's problems.

Religion is just one of the several paths people use to get power, or make excuses for themselves to have power or to keep it.

"I am holier than thou and thus thou must obey" is a similar excuse to "I am mightier than thou and thus thou must obey" and just as logically flawed.

Both ignore the fact that the adjectives Holier and Mightier are all relative to whoever hears them or thinks them.

which supports my statement religion is the root of all problems

no it doesn't support it, its not religion its the PRACTITIONERS of it the LEADERS not religion itself.

religion makes the killings of others of another faith easy because both sides can de-humanize the other as both feel the other is inferior and wrong. people kill each other for various reasons but religious conflicts are almost always the most hateful prolonged and bloody. throughout history religion has resulted in millions of deaths there is no denying this simple fact. we are in a holy war right now and there are lots more of them going on at any given time. its so stupid and a waste of human life.

yes it does and very clearly. If the christians who have thier god didn't think the muslims god was a falkse goid there would have been no crusades, no land battles and no division in the middle east. Now theose beliefs make one faction feel superior and correct while thinking other groups are wrong and worshiping the wrong god. Now all of that is based on religious beliefs. take all religion away and look back to most early and current wars no religion no disagreement no killing no killing no slaughter no evil no religion no evil direct and very clear

FilthyFletch said:

yes it does and very clearly. If the christians who have thier god didn't think the muslims god was a falkse goid there would have been no crusades, no land battles and no division in the middle east. Now theose beliefs make one faction feel superior and correct while thinking other groups are wrong and worshiping the wrong god. Now all of that is based on religious beliefs. take all religion away and look back to most early and current wars no religion no disagreement no killing no killing no slaughter no evil no religion no evil direct and very clear

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actually i believe it was the league of nations which split up the land in the middle east after WWII after the germans had taken control over the land because there was bickering on what land should rightfully belong to who (if there was some division before hand THAT idk), and as for the god, muslims and christians believe in the SAME god only they differ on who was the messiah, christ, or muhammad. just like jews and christians believe the same god but jews dont believe christ was the messiah. its all fine print stuff.

way way way before the european war where the holy wars or crusades which involved division of Church and gods. Yoiu can go back further to ancient eygypt and rome with battles waged and people treated as lesser for thier beliefs. The differences in beliefs and foundation lead to the battle for who is right and who is correctly serving gods wishes best. So the boil down is remove religion that doesnt happen and wouldnt have happened the last few thousand years

then again america would have never been founded and you would've been stuck in a oppressive Britain, point is, religion will never be abolished nor removed from the world, no matter how hard liberals and atheist wish. as for the roman wars like many others, troy, greece, ect their wars were mostly waged because some warlord wanted control, and set out on dominating all, to be the ultimate ruler, THAT is what most ancient wars were about, anything religious involved was simply praying to their god to protect them while they protect their home, land, and families. standing up for what THEY deemed right and just.

its rarely TRULY been about religious belief, at times yes, but mostly its been a man using religion to attain his agenda, i.e. radical muslims, being told that all who oppose are infidels and impure allah wishes them to die, and rewarded with 72 virgins (which ISN'T even a part to their religion)or persecuted for their beliefs and ethnicity such as the hallocaust, hitler deemed the jews a lesser of people and they wern't worthy to be on this earth. point is ITS MAN'S corrupt agenda which will twist ANY information to better his own advance to his ultimate goals.

guess you do not know much of ancient history or you would know the bases of ancient cultural foundations was religion. ask the mayans and incas what the spainards did to them since they were considered godless hethens. Religion will only go away when humane have enough pointless murder, child molestation,war, and general craziness but right now to many people need to believe in something in order to validate thier existance so they can function but hopefully it will all falter and be gone before it destroys this world

most emperors rulers etc.. in those times believed they were ordained by god making any of there actions justified in there eyes. therefore believing the killing or oppression of non believers was gods will.

which was evil and wrong. If they didnt have this god that made them avenge his beliefs no murder or war ie religion is evil

well this is a discussion that will never resolve, i dont contest what you are sayin, just stating that it falls on MANS shoulders, every organization is corrupt, or corruptible, if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else, like maybe dominance and greed? these feeling and others as well, both positive ans negative are the base of all human actions. and the myans did worship gods, every walk of life believed in god, or gods in the beginning. but i guarantee human nature and urges is what fueled the fire, either directly or not.

yes tyhey worshipped the sun god who was not part of spains cathalitism beliefs so they were murder and almost irradicated for their religious views by another group who had different religious views. It is a never ending cycle until those sheep who follow and based thier lives on an imaginary power stop realize how insane that is and start basing thier life on thier own actions and reprecussions.

fact is buddy, you or anyone else is gonna sway me or any others from our beliefs. and by your logic, holding me and fellow christians and other religions still accountable of terrible acts of old, is the same as saying white ppl are still to blame for slavery of black ppl, which is ignorant. its not our faults that the day of old, had ideas and logic that has been since surpassed just as its not religious ppls hands that are stained with blood for acts commited loong ago.

no matter how much anyone says religion is stupid, me nor majority of the religious will stray, nor change our beliefs.

Howbout lookin' at the evidence then, eh Captn?