Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1

ruwtz said:

Yeah, my thoughts entirely. I don't like this idea TBH.



I have clones going in party cups but aiming to veg 5-6 weeks in something 2-3gal before finishing in 7gal flower. 2gal fits my table size and veg period pretty good.

Air pruning is much more forgiving for people like me, and I can handle the extra waterings.

Air pots might be a better solution here. I also like the look of the Rootmaker square molded containers.

http://www.rootmaker.com/retail/21

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yeah to be completely honest
I have only experienced nothing but problems with fabric
to me
the difference between a 10.00 air pot
and a 1.50 nursery pot is 0 in plant growth
8.50 in cash
which to me could be better spent on anything else


there are alot of trends out there

if I were growing trees outdoors
Fabric pots for me
but for my tables
nursery pots do perfectly
In My Experience

others may experience different
but I havnt found anything better than a plastic nursery pot
I run square because the fit together perfectly

but I Wish you the Best

Wisher2 said:

yeah to be completely honest
I have only experienced nothing but problems with fabric
to me
the difference between a 10.00 air pot
and a 1.50 nursery pot is 0 in plant growth
8.50 in cash
which to me could be better spent on anything else


there are alot of trends out there

if I were growing trees outdoors
Fabric pots for me
but for my tables
nursery pots do perfectly
In My Experience

others may experience different
but I havnt found anything better than a plastic nursery pot
I run square because the fit together perfectly

but I Wish you the Best

Click to expand...

I like how the fabric pots work with this flood & drain, soaking right in before drawing in air from all directions.

I have to say I'm quite uncomfortable leaving the rockwool totally dry inside the pots. Doesn't make logical sense to me to have a 4" bone dry patch, especially at the main rootball. We want roots growing in all directions and total lack of moisture must surely be stunting any such development. Roots at the bottom are essential, but doesn't mean the rest can be forgotten.

Difficult to find discussions on this as my situation really was a compromise / workaround and not a "growing style" by design. I'm just going by logic.

The rockwool is so dry it crumbles now. It doesn't get flooded but I do feel like it should be at least a little moist.

so pack coco around the RW block
next.....flood the table until the top coco gets moist
now watch the coco
when the top 1" gets dry
flood until the top is moist
then set the timer for those intervals

standard coco flooding is 15 min 3 times a day

Rockwool is nasty shit. As soon as the plant grows beyond it, I cut it off.

Today's achievements:

[1] added a third feed to the schedule and ramped up slightly to 0.9EC as I think they can handle it. Now at three 4min feeds over the lights-on period only. Feeding GH trio at a ratio of 2-2-2 to suit late veg / transition.

[2] added 1g/gal epsom salts to the res as some still looking Mg hungry but knowing i've dropped 5ml/gal CalMag in there I need a Mg source not so heavy on other stuff; mindful of slight N tox on other plants and I read heavy Ca can lock out P and/or K.

[2] rooted clones in Root Riots moved up to coco party cups, and going to trial @Wisher2 's technique of watering the tray and not the plant. A feed of GH trio + CaMg + Hydroguard @ 0.4EC / pH6.3 has been made up ready to go, but wondering if I could toss in a rhizo product too??

[3] new clones taken from the best runners of Gorilla Glue and 24K Gold, as these are the strains I plan on flipping in a week.



Other notes:

- - - Some of my newer shoots feel a little soft, almost rubbery, down to the next node or so. This is not strain specific. Doesn't spook me but it is noteworthy. Do you think they might be a tad hungry? Or should I be considering a silica product to help cell building?

- - - Them white floaties are back in the res, despite cutting airstones and better light proofing. Don't really want to run H2O2 or chlorine until I know what it is or if its doing any badness. Jury is out whether its Hydroguard multiplying, which would be best case scenario.

- - - The oldest clones are looking very pale as stored nutes have been stripped to build roots. Will be working on finding best feed for rooted clones in coco using RO, starting with the mix in [2] above. These were all taken from sick girls before I chopped them down (see damaged tips), so they didn't get the best start but still giving them a chance.



- - - Delighted that the Gorilla Glue bagseed is all sexing as fems, but its still early days and these could still throw hermie/nanners/staminate flowers later.



- - - A couple of canopy pics, because here's to hoping I am over the worst days of this first grow in my shed and I can concentrate my efforts on making things work better every day.

Thanks for reading/sticking around, and props to those who are willing to step in and help. You make this community.

ruwtz said:

Today's achievements:

[1] added a third feed to the schedule and ramped up slightly to 0.9EC as I think they can handle it. Now at three 4min feeds over the lights-on period only. Feeding GH trio at a ratio of 2-2-2 to suit late veg / transition.

[2] added 1g/gal epsom salts to the res as some still looking Mg hungry but knowing i've dropped 5ml/gal CalMag in there I need a Mg source not so heavy on other stuff; mindful of slight N tox on other plants and I read heavy Ca can lock out P and/or K.

[2] rooted clones in Root Riots moved up to coco party cups, and going to trial @Wisher2 's technique of watering the tray and not the plant. A feed of GH trio + CaMg + Hydroguard @ 0.4EC / pH6.3 has been made up ready to go, but wondering if I could toss in a rhizo product too??

[3] new clones taken from the best runners of Gorilla Glue and 24K Gold, as these are the strains I plan on flipping in a week.

View attachment 3793230

Other notes:

- - - Some of my newer shoots feel a little soft, almost rubbery, down to the next node or so. This is not strain specific. Doesn't spook me but it is noteworthy. Do you think they might be a tad hungry? Or should I be considering a silica product to help cell building?

- - - Them white floaties are back in the res, despite cutting airstones and better light proofing. Don't really want to run H2O2 or chlorine until I know what it is or if its doing any badness. Jury is out whether its Hydroguard multiplying, which would be best case scenario.

- - - The oldest clones are looking very pale as stored nutes have been stripped to build roots. Will be working on finding best feed for rooted clones in coco using RO, starting with the mix in [2] above. These were all taken from sick girls before I chopped them down (see damaged tips), so they didn't get the best start but still giving them a chance.

View attachment 3793243

- - - Delighted that the Gorilla Glue bagseed is all sexing as fems, but its still early days and these could still throw hermie/nanners/staminate flowers later.

View attachment 3793236

- - - A couple of canopy pics, because here's to hoping I am over the worst days of this first grow in my shed and I can concentrate my efforts on making things work better every day.

Thanks for reading/sticking around, and props to those who are willing to step in and help. You make this community.

View attachment 3793253 View attachment 3793251 View attachment 3793252

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canopy is lookin much better

those clones look super dry
for the feed.......bring the ph down to 5.8....6.3 is to high....coco ph is 5.8-6.2

6.3 may begin lockout right off the bat

as for the floaties......as long as it isnt effecting anything it should be fine
if the ph is fine and the ec remains stable I wouldnt worry

also.....what type of coco mix did you say you were using? does it have anything other than just coco and perlite in it? could be some type of residue or gypsum or something.....I know companys that mix coco mixes always put stoopid shit in the bag....not just coco and aggregate

oh yeah

as for bennies
you can scratch some mycos into the top layer of the coco as close to roots as possible
also when clones have taken....before they go into cups......dip the roots in mycos before placing in new home.....as well sprinkle into hole
works great for me.......
once mycos come in contact with roots....they immediately go to work

Wisher2 said:

canopy is lookin much better

those clones look super dry
for the feed.......bring the ph down to 5.8....6.3 is to high....coco ph is 5.8-6.2

6.3 may begin lockout right off the bat

as for the floaties......as long as it isnt effecting anything it should be fine
if the ph is fine and the ec remains stable I wouldnt worry

also.....what type of coco mix did you say you were using? does it have anything other than just coco and perlite in it? could be some type of residue or gypsum or something.....I know companys that mix coco mixes always put stoopid shit in the bag....not just coco and aggregate

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Its Botanicare's aeration mix: 50% perlite and some other organic amendments cut into it also that I can't recall off the top of my head.

Sorry I got confused: pH6.3 was for the fresh clone cuts in plugs. My party cup feed is pH6.0.

Do you recommend a specific myco product?

And what about adding a silica product to coco? I have some diatomaceous earth lying around that I could cut in at transplant for flower perhaps?

As long as it doesn't swing pH i'd be happy to add in. Good pest prevention too.

ruwtz said:

And what about adding a silica product to coco? I have some diatomaceous earth lying around that I could cut in at transplant for flower perhaps?

As long as it doesn't swing pH i'd be happy to add in.

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And it will seriously fuck with your pH.

I use potassium silicate as a foliar spray, it raises leaf surface pH and so it helps prevent powdery mildew as well.

ttystikk said:

And it will seriously fuck with your pH.

I use potassium silicate as a foliar spray, it raises leaf surface pH and so it helps prevent powdery mildew as well.

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Hmm, DE will fuck with pH too??

ruwtz said:

Hmm, DE will fuck with pH too??

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Not sure about that. Your garden center or nursery will know.

ttystikk said:

Not sure about that. Your garden center or nursery will know.

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Very quick reading doesn't seem to indicate that, but it does apparently cake up when wetted and could inhibit media aeration, so might have to think a little longer on this.

Will look into KSi, cheers!

ruwtz said:

Very quick reading doesn't seem to indicate that, but it does apparently cake up when wetted and could inhibit media aeration, so might have to think a little longer on this.

Will look into KSi, cheers!

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DynaGro makes Protekt, that's their potassium silicate.

I use silica blast

yeah I hate the shit they put in coco mixes

I always run Canna coco out the bag mixed with hydroton
I dont trust the organic amendments to NOT fuck with my res

dont use DE as an amendment....that form of silica will take about 3-5 years to actually break down

but I do recomend a silica product
as for Mycos
I use the Xtreme works fine for me
any will work great

Two things from today:

- - I came in at 9am and surprised to see my table flooding as its only set for 4mins at 8am lights-on. I suspect the timer played up and had it flooding for over an hour, but I can't be sure. Its a brand new digital outlet timer by Titan, although it seems like they badge a standard cheapo, and it may have crapped out on me. Will be watching carefully.

- - Something has bumped the pH to 6.4 overnight and it may well be those res floaties I have been trying to ignore: water was cloudy and I could make out a greasy film on the surface under torch light. Pump was all snotty when I pulled it out to clean. Interestingly there seemed to be actual less floaties in the body of the water than before; perhaps something was competing and won out? EC remained at 0.9 so whatever it was didn't seem hungry.

I have changed the res today and this time I'm going to leave out Hydroguard for 48hrs to see if that really is the culprit.

I was using a late-veg balanced ratio of the GH trio bottles of 2-2-2 but some plants are looking dark from heavy N whilst most have very soft stems at the top of branches/new growth, so i've gone to 1-2-3 for more K, and also lowered CalMag to 2ml/gal. New res reset to pH5.5 + EC up to 1.0.

Trying to pinch a sample of Silica Blast from Botanicare but their website seems eff'd up right now. Might just have to buy it.

Will be flipping two strains into flower this week: they are both two months old at this point.

All 5 Larry OG's were getting right up under the light and looking a little stressed for it, so I took those lanky tops for clones - 4 from each.

Adding that RO storage tank with float valve is working well and I was able to replace my res in just a few mins. The tank will now refill this afternoon and be ready for add-backs throughout the week.

A few notes + pics from today, just a couple of days from flipping the Gorilla Glue and the 24K Gold.

Some of these pots are at the back of my veg table and don't get moved much so the roots coming through the smart pots have really exploded. I think with three feeds per day the table is staying wet and the roots are loving it, perhaps a little too much and starting to look a little root bound, don't you think?? The hydroton layer is helping to keep it dark for them too.







I decided they would appreciate a couple days' head start settling into new pots before the 12/12 flip (and I think @ttystikk suggested this previously).

I gave them all a dunk in a myco slurry before sitting them on a good few inches of coco in 7gal pots. Coco was preloaded with a solution of 1/2 strength nutes + Hydroguard and a dusting of the myco powder.

I rolled down the sides of the 2gal smart pots as best I could to allow any lateral root development, however that's probably unlikely at this point with all the downward growth. I'm also leaving exposed the original rockwool blocks so they don't saturate - a good half sticks out above the new coco layer. Will be glad to see the end of this stuff after this cycle is done. Coco all the way.



With these 7gal pots it's a real squeeze on the veg table but it really is only for 48hrs until I can move them into flower next door.



First gen of clones are doing ok in the party cups and as soon as we have room in veg I can move some up.

I like to take tops for clones because I top them at the same time and get two new branches immediately - see pic below.

Using @Wisher2 's simple tech of flooding the party cup tray is working well for these plants so i'm ignoring the added strain on my little dehu from having open water in the room. I am thinking about making a lidded tray setup with cup holder style holes to prevent evap.



New stuff:

- - Went with Myco Jordan by Elite91 for my myco product, works out half the price of Great White (8oz cost me $30)

- - A quart of Botanicare's Silica Blast was $13 and will last me a good while at 2ml/gal. Will add at next res change

- - Finally found an excuse to buy a laser thermometer and had fun taking leaf temps at the tallest point on the canopy. Was surprised it was running so cool just inches from the lights, but still seeing some leaf curl/stressing. Can it be too bright? Lumen shock or something?

everything is lookin great now

those plants dont look root bound at all

in fabric pots it is impossible to really become rootbound
once roots reach the edge they stop growing and start shooting out lateral roots

those base roots looked really nice and ropey

So did you actually rip all those roots off or did you roll down fabric and kinda cut it off and leave the base with the roots?

glad the feed tray is working out
I actually made a cover out of 1/8 styrofoam
cut holes for the cups and drop them in

Wisher2 said:

everything is lookin great now

those plants dont look root bound at all

in fabric pots it is impossible to really become rootbound
once roots reach the edge they stop growing and start shooting out lateral roots

those base roots looked really nice and ropey

So did you actually rip all those roots off or did you roll down fabric and kinda cut it off and leave the base with the roots?

glad the feed tray is working out
I actually made a cover out of 1/8 styrofoam
cut holes for the cups and drop them in

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No way I could damage all this good growth. I very carefully folded down the 2gal smart pots as much as I could from the sides. I'd prefer to not be growing through the pot base but since it working for them now its probably not going to hold them back any.

In future I'm considering the square plastic pots by Rootmaker for vegging, but they have air holes so I need to think of a way to contain the coco so it doesn't dirty up the table and res. Burlap lining would be cheap and can possibly work with the design of these pots.

Styro cover for the clones sounds good, but is it strong enough to lift off the tray whilst holding the cups? I want to be able to do this so I can change the water easily.

I ran some fresh clones six days ago and they haven't taken at all. Root Riot plugs in dome tray, around 80F and high 70's humidity. I pulled a couple up and the cut site just looks healed with zero attempt to root. Leaves are not yellowing at all. Clones were cut from well fed plants so they're probably just too comfy to bother rooting. Only thing I changed was switching from cloning gel to Hormex powder, but i've rooted with neither in the past so I don't suspect thats it.

Kinda gutted if these don't go as they're taken from the plants i'm flipping in two day so don't really want to chop them again.

ruwtz said:

No way I could damage all this good growth. I very carefully folded down the 2gal smart pots as much as I could from the sides. I'd prefer not to be growing through the pot base but its working for them already so its probably not going to hold them back.

In future I'm considering the square plastic pots by Rootmaker for vegging, but since they have holes I need to think of a way to contain the coco so it doesn't dirty up the table and res. Burlap lining would be cheap and can possibly work with the design of these pots.

Styro cover for the clones sounds good, but is it strong enough to lift off the tray whilst holding the cups? I want to be able to do this so I can change the water easily.

I ran some fresh clones six days ago and they haven't taken at all. Root Riot plugs in dome tray, around 80F and high 70's humidity. I pulled a couple up and the cut site just looks healed with zero attempt to root. Leaves are not yellowing at all. Clones were cut from well fed plants so they're probably just too comfy to bother rooting. Only thing I changed was switching from cloning gel to Hormex powder, but i've rooted with neither in the past so I don't suspect thats it.

Kinda gutted if these don't go as they're taken from the plants i'm flipping in two day so don't really want to chop them again.

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you can use coco matting to line the pots....which will allow fluid in but will contain roots

you can use thicker styrofoam
like the stuff they use for raft hydroponics in the lettuce industry
I just lift a cup and pour through the hole when the cups get light
I never change the solution.....it sits until it is gone.....in my setup