Scientifically Speaking

hi guys. this thread stems from a reaction i had to a comment in one of mindphucks posts where he was responding to heisenberg in his thread regarding the validity of the composition of "everything" being made up of energy. sorry i dont recall the specific title of heis's thread. at any rate mindphuck made the comment (not ver batim) that while thoughts were made up of energy, that energy does not transcend our physical bodies. mindphuck, i hope that is at least accurate enough to base my question on. first i must relate the incident that i recollected from that comment. about fifteen years ago i found myself on the road nearly 600 miles from home. i was alone and tired so i exitted the interstate and since i really didnt feel like room shopping i pulled into the first motel i came to. i paid for the room and went to a nearby 24hr diner, ate supper and proceeded back to the motel. before i fell asleep (no weed, no alcohol) i remember being particularly troubled about some "stuff" in my life to the unusual extent of literally agonizing IN MY MIND over it. except for the desk clerk and the waiter i spoke to no one. even then it was just business. no "chatty kathy" shit. the following morning, i went back to the same diner for break fast. my coffee had just been poured when i noticed an older woman, maybe 55-60 excuse herself from her table and walked directly up to me. i had never seen or met this woman in my life. she introduced herself and i told her my first name. she then says to me "im sorry for interrupting your breakfast but if you have just a minute and wouldnt mind, i have somethings to tell you." at first (for just an instant) i thought she was trying to sell me on her religion but then (just as quickly) i remember thinking "no this is different". she began addressing all the "stuff" that had so intensely weighed on my mind the previous night. the strangest thing was that when she mentioned them she used the specific descriptive terms that i had been using IN MY MIND, word for word the night before. she said things would work out exactly as they were supposed to and that i would be fine. that spending a lot of time being "so concerned" about the outcome wouldnt change anything. she projected confidence but not cockiness and was very polite. when she was finished she thanked me for my patience and for being kind enough to listen, said she hoped had been of some help and went back to her table. so, eventually things worked out ok. not necessarily what i would have consider ideal but ok. those issues were all things i had never mentioned let alone discussed with anyone (which unfortunately is still my way with things that are bothering me). so now my question. SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING, how the fuck can some shit like that happen? i know that that was just a personal experience but i personally and realisticly cannot deny it happened. do you guys have any thoughts on this? i know which direction this would have likely taken in the spirituality section which is why i wanted to keep it here. thanx for your time and consideration.

yeah. thats kinda where i am and have been at with it since it happened. spirituality can be easily applied in more ways than one according to individual beliefs. i was hoping that maybe you guys might have some actual scientific hypothesis to propose for such situations. i say hypothesis cuz i dont believe any hard evidence has been discovered for such things. i realize that taking me at my word that this actually happened as reported is tantamount to addressing the question with any kind of accuracy. i certainly hope that i havent given anyone reason to to think im prone to misrepresenting myself. really, any thoughts you guys might have would be appreciated. im pretty much open to any science based possibilities as its all basicly speculation at this point anyway. thanx again for any consideration.

well i got through one or two sentances before my eyes started bleeding from the wall of text.

Scientifically speaking, I cannot currently think of any feasible means of mind to mind communication that can be proven and repeatably recreated in an experiment. My brains neurons are only in my head, so I don't see how another person could have indirect access to what's going on in there. It may have just been that the woman just picked up on your demeanor and took it upon herself to make you feel better. The key words she used may have just been a coinsidence.

Maybe you talk in your sleep, and that woman was sharing a wall with you. Maybe she's just unusually intuitive. Some people are really good at reading other folks. Since I don't know how unique these descriptive terms were (Nor the context in which they were used.); I can't say much more than that.

I know this is a forum and all, but some punctuation becomes helpful when you get to a certain point. I had to read this thing 4 times because it's impossible to keep you place.

sorry about the appearance of my composition. im working from a mobile device that does not (for whatever reason) allow me to space for paragraphs. the key pad is very small and the arthritis in my hands make posting (even such as i do), quite a painful challenge. not making excuses, its just the way it is. thanx for taking time to read and respond.

ilikecheetoes said:

well i got through one or two sentances before my eyes started bleeding from the wall of text.

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sorry about all the words. i didnt have any pics to post up for ya. i sincerely hope that medical attn. wasnt needed for the ocular blood loss. get well soon.

PeyoteReligion said:

Scientifically speaking, I cannot currently think of any feasible means of mind to mind communication that can be proven and repeatably recreated in an experiment. My brains neurons are only in my head, so I don't see how another person could have indirect access to what's going on in there. It may have just been that the woman just picked up on your demeanor and took it upon herself to make you feel better. The key words she used may have just been a coinsidence.

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i can certainly go along with a particularly perceptive individual offering words of encouragement and consolation. she was however exceedingly, amazingly specific and accurate. it really was as if i had been speaking audibly and she had been within easy earshot. she really was very explicit.

kpmarine said:

Maybe you talk in your sleep, and that woman was sharing a wall with you. Maybe she's just unusually intuitive. Some people are really good at reading other folks. Since I don't know how unique these descriptive terms were (Nor the context in which they were used.); I can't say much more than that. I know this is a forum and all, but some punctuation becomes helpful when you get to a certain point. I had to read this thing 4 times because it's impossible to keep you place.

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ive certainly never been told that i talk in my sleep. even when under stress. sorry for being hard to read.

mudminer said:

i can certainly go along with a particularly perceptive individual offering words of encouragement and consolation. she was however exceedingly, amazingly specific and accurate. it really was as if i had been speaking audibly and she had been within easy earshot. she really was very explicit.

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Did this woman seem a bit odd? Maybe she gives that routine to anyone in that 24 hour diner that will listen, and you were the only person it made any sense to. Maybe you heard what you wanted to hear. I would like to know your opinion of the situation, what do you think is going on here? I think with that out there, this thread will move along smoother.

I do think this would fit better in the ss&p forum. Like I said, scientifically speaking, there are no mind readers. People with exceptional observational skills, sure. People with the ability to just "know" what going on in your personal life, no.

mudminer said:

ive certainly never been told that i talk in my sleep. even when under stress. sorry for being hard to read.

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I have on a few rare occasions. I don't know if there was a link between them, but they were definitely not the norm. I'm just a guy spitballing over here. I've never had anything quite that odd happen to me, so it's never been something I looked into much.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was just no paragraph breaks, but no caps makes it a bit hard to keep my place. If you're one of those folks that posts from a phone I know it can be a pain.

You're being scouted by an alphabet soup agency.. look for the small red GPS unit under the left wheel well.

PeyoteReligion said:

Did this woman seem a bit odd? Maybe she gives that routine to anyone in that 24 hour diner that will listen, and you were the only person it made any sense to. Maybe you heard what you wanted to hear. I would like to know your opinion of the situation, what do you think is going on here? I think with that out there, this thread will move along smoother.

I do think this would fit better in the ss&p forum. Like I said, scientifically speaking, there are no mind readers. People with exceptional observational skills, sure. People with the ability to just "know" what going on in your personal life, no.

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I had a Tarot reading done once. It was free, and I figured "Why not?". The lady blew my mind at the time, it was like she was actually able to tell things about me from the cards. As I look back on it, I realize it wasn't really that impressive. It was mostly leading me along and saying things/asking questions just vague enough to apply, but not specific enough to have any real meaning on their own. It's amazing how our feelings and current mindset can affect our perceptions.

PeyoteReligion said:

Did this woman seem a bit odd? Maybe she gives that routine to anyone in that 24 hour diner that will listen, and you were the only person it made any sense to. Maybe you heard what you wanted to hear. I would like to know your opinion of the situation, what do you think is going on here? I think with that out there, this thread will move along smoother. I do think this would fit better in the ss&p forum. Like I said, scientifically speaking, there are no mind readers. People with exceptional observational skills, sure. People with the ability to just "know" what going on in your personal life, no.

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I didnt notice anything odd about her, until the part where she walked up to a total stranger and related his personal, private thoughts of the night before to him. I do accept that there are things in our world that are "beyond" normal. I dont believe all that is claimed to be paranormal actually is. I will try every way I can think of to explain something before I say I cant. In this instance, I cant. I dont think that just because something hasnt been explained by science yet means that it cant be. I dont consider myself stupid or gullable. Im not someone who just thinks its cool to believe in the paranormal. Im not going to say that no tangible evidence of something negates the reality of it. I wanted to post this here to avoid all the "spooky" stuff and see if anybody might have some good, science based ideas about it. I appreciate your interest and thanks to everone for all objective responses.

kpmarine said:

I had a Tarot reading done once. It was free, and I figured "Why not?". The lady blew my mind at the time, it was like she was actually able to tell things about me from the cards. As I look back on it, I realize it wasn't really that impressive. It was mostly leading me along and saying things/asking questions just vague enough to apply, but not specific enough to have any real meaning on their own. It's amazing how our feelings and current mindset can affect our perceptions.

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I absolutely agree with that, but it just wasnt like that. Not a QnA session. After I said Id listen it was all her. I was so stunned by the specificity of the things she said that I dont even remember saying thank you, fuck you or anything else when she had finished.

Scientifically speaking, it's perfectly acceptable to not be able to explain something. There is much in the universe that has yet to be explained/understood fully. I'm a constant skeptic and just because I can't explain something doesn't make me jump the conclusion of supernatural. I've had a mindset like this since I was a young teenager, and have been looking, but yet to experience anything even remotely close to what you describe. Now that's not to discredit what you experienced by any means, just a side note. I think if a women came up to me and said some things that were SUPER specific to my personal life and thoughts, I would of course be questioning the situation. I think I would follow occams razor and pick the idea with the fewest assumptions. Which in my mind leads me back to coincidence. The words she chose just happend to be what ones that were espescially powerfull to you on that day. If she approached you two days earlier/later it may not have been as profound as was to you on that specific day.

It always seems that us serious skeptics that wish oh so much to experience the totally inexplicable just to analyze the situation never seem to have it happen. At least me.

PeyoteReligion said:

Scientifically speaking, it's perfectly acceptable to not be able to explain something. There is much in the universe that has yet to be explained/understood fully.

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[video=youtube;1E6IfdUJn6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6IfdUJn6s[/video]

kpmarine said:

Maybe you talk in your sleep, and that woman was sharing a wall with you.

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LOL! That was the first thought that popped into my head while reading.

One thing I would like to point out is that your memory of the event, while obviously vivid, is still not exactly how everything happened. Our brains do a lot of filtering and then fill in details that never happened. I have experienced it myself from both sides. When I do a mentalist trick on people, their recollection of what I did is often more amazing than what I actually did. Some of this is by design because I tell them things like, "Remember, I never touched it." or "So you are now thinking of something that only exists in your mind..." (when in fact they wrote it down).

So unfortunately the problem with coming up with explanations for something that is really now only a memory can be tough because the main clues may actually be missing. You say you never saw her before but maybe she saw you - she could have worked at the diner and you just didn't remember. Maybe you did say something to someone there, or you were mumbling to yourself without realizing it (similar to the sleep-talking idea). You were very tired after a long drive, you really could not have the mental focus to remember everything.

Too bad you just didn't ask her how the fuck she knew these things. I would bet you a bunch of money your first instinct is to reject my hypothesis because we are generally pretty convinced that our memories are not that malleable and that what we remember is exactly how it happened.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199501/its-magical-its-malleable-its-memory


[youtube]buhMdC7MO0U[/youtube]

PeyoteReligion said:

Scientifically speaking, it's perfectly acceptable to not be able to explain something. There is much in the universe that has yet to be explained/understood fully. I'm a constant skeptic and just because I can't explain something doesn't make me jump the conclusion of supernatural. I've had a mindset like this since I was a young teenager, and have been looking, but yet to experience anything even remotely close to what you describe. Now that's not to discredit what you experienced by any means, just a side note. I think if a women came up to me and said some things that were SUPER specific to my personal life and thoughts, I would of course be questioning the situation. I think I would follow occams razor and pick the idea with the fewest assumptions. Which in my mind leads me back to coincidence. The words she chose just happend to be what ones that were espescially powerfull to you on that day. If she approached you two days earlier/later it may not have been as profound as was to you on that specific day.It always seems that us serious skeptics that wish oh so much to experience the totally inexplicable just to analyze the situation never seem to have it happen. At least me.

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I didnt mean to give the impression that I believe everything I cant explain is considered paranormal. Admittedly in this instance I did. I still would have to say that this would have to have been one helluva utterly, amazingly, accurate coincidnce. Certainly that is a possibility. Buddy I hope your experience finds you. that seems to be how it works. lol. All the individuals and groups that go out "looking for them" seem to come up empty.

mindphuk said:

LOL! That was the first thought that popped into my head while reading.One thing I would like to point out is that your memory of the event, while obviously vivid, is still not exactly how everything happened. Our brains do a lot of filtering and then fill in details that never happened. I have experienced it myself from both sides. When I do a mentalist trick on people, their recollection of what I did is often more amazing than what I actually did. Some of this is by design because I tell them things like, "Remember, I never touched it." or "So you are now thinking of something that only exists in your mind..." (when in fact they wrote it down). So unfortunately the problem with coming up with explanations for something that is really now only a memory can be tough because the main clues may actually be missing. You say you never saw her before but maybe she saw you - she could have worked at the diner and you just didn't remember. Maybe you did say something to someone there, or you were mumbling to yourself without realizing it (similar to the sleep-talking idea). You were very tired after a long drive, you really could not have the mental focus to remember everything. Too bad you just didn't ask her how the fuck she knew these things. I would bet you a bunch of money your first instinct is to reject my hypothesis because we are generally pretty convinced that our memories are not that malleable and that what we remember is exactly how it happened. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199501/its-magical-its-malleable-its-memory[youtube]buhMdC7MO0U[/youtube]

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As I said Ive never been told I talk in my sleep but to deny the possibility would be ridiculous. That was a very interesting article. Our minds seem to have an amazing ability to alter our perception of reality. Thanx for contributing.